Conquests: Mutually Exclusive Technology

[Angmar]

I am thinking of starting work on a scenario. However I want to have it so not everyone works on the same tech tree. I would like there to be some choices. You either go down path 1 or path 2.

I do know I can add flavours to a technology and then tell a specific civ not to use a flavour or atleast shun it.

This however will not stop the Human player from researching everything.

What I would like to see is this. Research tech "A" this give you acccess to "B". "C" and "D". However if you pick one of these techs you are unable to research or gain the others. You could then chooise to have "A" and "C", but you would be unable to gain "B" and "D" through research or trade.

Is there any way to have such mutually exclusive techs?

Cheers,

 

[Mobilize]

I believe it is possible. You would just have to make the techs each follow a different path and then one path would turn into two and so-on. You would have to use the arrows just right to pull this off.

 

[Ozymandias]

The easiest answer to this often asked question remains, "Use Era=None Techs". Assign Civ "A" Era=None Tech "A" and have that be a prerequisite for the Civ "A" "branch" of the tech tree.

Just note that ALL techs so derived from Era=None have to be optional else the other Civs cannot reach the next era! (For that matter, note that "flavor" techs likewise need to be optional, for the same reason.)

Best,

Oz

 

[slothman]

Actually if what you want is that any civ or human player can choose 'b', 'c', or 'd' but then not be able to choose the others. It can't be done I don't think. If you want the choice of 'b', 'c', or 'd' to be civ dependent it can.
An example for 'b' and 'c' could be "extreme slavery" and "emacipation." Having both seems strange but you want each civ to have to decide if they research the slavery tech for enslaving units or the freedom tech for happiness buildings.

 

[embryodead]

yep, techs can't exclude each other, so sorry, it is impossible. you can only pre-set such paths (refer to Oz's post), but then, the choice is made *before* the game begins (ie. what civilization you choose), not during the playtime.

 

[Mithadan]

A related, but different, question:

Can a universally available tech (say, iron working) be a prerequisite to a civ-specific tech (say, lamellar armour)? (I'm talking in C3C terms, here, even though I don't have it yet.) Thataway I could have a common core of techs, but have little offshoots for various civs to keep them occupied with different things, but without having to build completely independent tech trees from the ground up for each of them. Maybe this is what that "flavour" business is for?

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Mithadan
A related, but different, question:

Can a universally available tech (say, iron working) be a prerequisite to a civ-specific tech (say, lamellar armour)?

Yes, although once again make certain that your Civ-specific (or flavor-probabilistic -- each flavor gets assigned a 0%-100% chance that it will research the tech of any other given flavor; there are seven "flavors" in total, which you can rename) tech is optional for era advancement.

Best,

Oz

 

[Angmar]

Thanks for all the information guys! Lots of my questions were answered here.

It seems as though its pretty flexible to allow unique tech trees, this is however tied to civ choice. This should work good

Cheers,

 

[Bane Star]

I too was looking to do the same thing, and I have Tried many varied ways to achieve this, Maybe if I give you an Idea you can learn from my pitfalls...

I wanted the tech tree, around Iron Age to break into 4 distinct areas, Science, War, Religeon and Magic, Since Era2 techs cannot be a pre-requisite for Era 3, etc etc, I have to start by putting ALL the techs from science into the same Era, the same for Each of the four... Science and War appear in Era3, and Religeon and Magic appear in Era 4, and the Era screens represent this.

Also, NoneEra techs seem to not be able to be researched, Nor are they able to be or have pre-requisites to Era Techs... I haven't tested Conquests for this restriction yet....

Then at the end of Era2, I have Iron Working, as the last Tech, So Era three starts on that basis,

In the start of Era 3, The Techs; Worship and Bourne Lines, are available, Thes two techs are the only techs required to get into Era4...

In the opening Instructions to my Scenario, I have warned players that they must choose 1 of the 4 Styles, to be thier dominant technology, Also these techs all have either (S), (W), (M) or (R) in thier name to make it easier to see which tech is which...

This does restrict multi-classing, since I cannot link Knights and religion to create Templars or Crusaders... Also I cannot link Magic to create Warlocks, But Since Magic does not mix with Religeon or Science at all, and there are little advantages to mixers of other types, I can put up with this restriction...

Just to make things more complex, Magic is broken up into 16 Areas amd Religeon into 7, So the tech screen is a great big jumbled mess of techs, No arrows and no comprehension....

One last thing is that Many of my techs make Units obsolete in other areas, such as paper rock scissors style... So In Early PTW games the computer players were at a major disadvantage, but now with the 'flavours' I can continue with my mod...

 

[Ozymandias]

@BaneStar -- quick clarification: Era=None techs CAN be prerequisites for other era techs; and they cannot be traded.

-Oz

 

[Mithadan]

Originally posted by ozymandias
Yes, although once again make certain that your Civ-specific (or flavor-probabilistic -- each flavor gets assigned a 0%-100% chance that it will research the tech of any other given flavor; there are seven "flavors" in total, which you can rename) tech is optional for era advancement.

Thanks, good to know!

 

[Mithadan]

Another question:

In C3C, can civ-specific or flavour techs be traded with other civs, so long as the "untradable" flag is not selected? Any clues?

Say I make the tech "Rudder" Chinese or Asian specific, but I flag it "tradeable." Then say I make "Rudder" the prerequisite for some European boat-building tech. Would that be possible? That way, the only way for Europeans to build boats with rudders would be to trade with the Chinese or other Asians. (I have this suspicion it won't work.)

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by Mithadan
Another question:

In C3C, can civ-specific or flavour techs be traded with other civs, so long as the "untradable" flag is not selected? Any clues?

Say I make the tech "Rudder" Chinese or Asian specific, but I flag it "tradeable." Then say I make "Rudder" the prerequisite for some European boat-building tech. Would that be possible? That way, the only way for Europeans to build boats with rudders would be to trade with the Chinese or other Asians. (I have this suspicion it won't work.)

An interesting idea! -- But, sorry, I have no idea if it will work, although theoretically I don't see why it wouldn't, which would be a VERY nice catch indeed

Best,

Oz

 

[embryodead]

It's impossible since if you make a tech civ-specific, other factions don't "see" it and can't trade it at all. this will work with flavors of course, but flavors aren't limiting anyone really - human european player will be still able to research such tech by himself, as well as AI if he has no better options left.

 

[Mithadan]

Well, too bad for me. Oh well. Thanks for the replies, guys!

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by embryodead
It's impossible since if you make a tech civ-specific, other factions don't "see" it and can't trade it at all. this will work with flavors of course, but flavors aren't limiting anyone really - human european player will be still able to research such tech by himself, as well as AI if he has no better options left.

Is this true even if the flavor probability is set to 0% ?

Thx,

Oz

 

[KingArthur]

Originally posted by embryodead
It's impossible since if you make a tech civ-specific, other factions don't "see" it and can't trade it at all. this will work with flavors of course, but flavors aren't limiting anyone really - human european player will be still able to research such tech by himself, as well as AI if he has no better options left.

Couldn't you branch your tradeable-flavour techs off an ERA_None tech? That way everyone sees the techs but only the person with the ERA_None tech can research them. However, if you have the tradeable flag turned on then the techs can be traded.

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by ozymandias
Is this true even if the flavor probability is set to 0% ?

Well.. yes and no Since I've only read about it and you asked, not to sound as a smart-ass I made a simple test with 4 civs and 2 techs, from which it seems that AI actually won't research or trade (even from human player) a flavored tech that has 0% relationship. Human player can, however, research or buy everything he wants, so it's still no real limitation. I haven't checked if Great Library effect can graft non-related techs to AI, but I don't think it matters.

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by KingArthur


Couldn't you branch your tradeable-flavour techs off an ERA_None tech? That way everyone sees the techs but only the person with the ERA_None tech can research them. However, if you have the tradeable flag turned on then the techs can be traded.

No it doesn't work that way. If a tech branches from ERA_None tech, it's not visible for all (only for those who know ERA_None tech...)

 

[Ozymandias]

Originally posted by embryodead


Well.. yes and no Since I've only read about it and you asked, not to sound as a smart-ass I made a simple test with 4 civs and 2 techs, from which it seems that AI actually won't research or trade (even from human player) a flavored tech that has 0% relationship. Human player can, however, research or buy everything he wants, so it's still no real limitation. I haven't checked if Great Library effect can graft non-related techs to AI, but I don't think it matters.

Many thanks for the test & results!

-Oz