Consitancy with tanks
- Thread starter Skibbi
- Start date
well, it was designed as an "infantry tank"
maybe 3 moves (2 less than other tanks, same as first heavy tanks, 1 more than infantry) for the Matilda II would do, knowing that it has +10 strength compared to tanks of the same class...
It could have been another one-unit class in fact.
maybe 3 moves (2 less than other tanks, same as first heavy tanks, 1 more than infantry) for the Matilda II would do, knowing that it has +10 strength compared to tanks of the same class...
It could have been another one-unit class in fact.
I like the idea of a 1-unit class, since britain didn't have many battle tanks! It would also deter people from spamming Matildas. Or maybe it could be British Mech Infantry 2 (number 1 is Matilda 1, yes, they're not the same but they had same purpose!)
thecivinator58
Warlord
I think tanks need to be rebalenced. Currently, we have M11/39 = M3 Lee, KV-1 and P26/40 = B1, M13/40 = M4 Sherman. Also in a side note, the first Panzer IVs with the 75mm howitzers were never intended to fight tanks, that was the Panzer III's job. But currently, the starting IV is better vs tanks than the starting III.
I thought PzIV and PzIII had their role swapped because the IV (the 3D model is a F1 version, isn't it ?) was effectively better than III against tank. Now maybe we can make the IV available later in game, and renamed it to Panzer IV Ausf. F1.
About the KV-1 and P26/40, moving them up to the Churchill level isn't too much comparatively to the T-34 that had made the KV-1 obsolete ? Or should the Char B1 be lowered making it less effective against PzIII & IV ?
How would you rebalance the others ?
About the KV-1 and P26/40, moving them up to the Churchill level isn't too much comparatively to the T-34 that had made the KV-1 obsolete ? Or should the Char B1 be lowered making it less effective against PzIII & IV ?
How would you rebalance the others ?
thecivinator58
Warlord
My personal opinion would be to bump up the P26/40 and KV-1 to Churchill stats. This is because, from the reports of German tankers, B1s were "Difficult" to damage. With the KV-1, this became "We can't hurt it at all unless we hit it point blank in the rear". As for the P26/40, the armor was based off of that on the T-34, infact it was thicker (If only by 5mm). The P26/40 had a better gun than the KV-1, but less armor. Churchill had the poorest gun and best armor of the 3. As for rebalenceing the KV-1 with the T-34, I have no idea. Perhaps the T-34 could be given the same AT strength as the KV-1, therefore makeing it more economical to build T-34s instead of KV-1s. The Panzer IV model in the game could be anything between the Ausf A and Ausf F1 models, I can't tell which. I do know that the Ausf F2 and Ausf G were designed to give the IV some amount of AT abillity (The 50mm from the III Ausf J was tried, but found to be to weak). The IV chassis was found to be more effective than the III, not the gun. In short, before the Panzer IV got the longer 75mm, it was less effective vs tanks than the III. Infact, once the Panzer III became obsolete, some were redesigned into the Ausf N, which had the stubby 75mm from the Panzer IV F1, and armor skirts, like on the Panzer IV Ausf H. I would personally like to see a prewar Panzer IV Ausf C or Ausf D, that quickly upgrade to the F1 after a little xp.
Wow, that was longer than I expected it to be
Edit: The Panzer III J is not the version depicted in the game. The Ausf J did not have that thing hanging off the back of the turret. The one in the game is an Ausf L or an Ausf M, I can't tell
Wow, that was longer than I expected it to be
Edit: The Panzer III J is not the version depicted in the game. The Ausf J did not have that thing hanging off the back of the turret. The one in the game is an Ausf L or an Ausf M, I can't tell
thecivinator58
Warlord
not long enough, what about the M11/39 and M13/40 ?
The M11/39 and M3 Lee are somewhat similar, both countries needed a tank to fight other tanks, but they didn't know how to mount a big enough gun in the turret. So it was mounted in the hull, will the turret holding some smaller armament. But the gun in the M3 turret was 37mm, plus two machine guns. In the hull was a 75mm gun, I think it was the same one that would be later used in the M4, but don't quote me on that. In the M11/39, the turret housed two machine guns, and the hull held a 37mm gun. The M3 also has more armor, and they were about the same speed. That's why I think it's absurd that they are currently the same strength. As for the M13/40 it was basicly a project to take the 37mm out of the hull and mount it in a turret, though later models had a 47mm gun. The M4 was similar in the sense that just haveing an AT gun was not enough anymore, now it needed to be mounted in the turret. But again, similarities end there. The M4 was faster, had better armor, was easier to make, and had a better gun. So the fact they are the same
is kind of inaccurate.Am I done now?
Nop, how would you manage all the changes on a gameplay perspective ?Am I done now?
I can see only the buff to the P26/40 and KV-1 to be an easy one.
The others would require a complete rework of all the unit table, unless if +/-1 strength are acceptable to reflect those changes.
But for the Pz.IV we're talking of a -10 combat value... Maybe -15% against armor, that would keep it above the Pz.II vs infantry, and just below the Pz.III against tank. But custom "promotions" like this are to be avoided, difficult to reflect on the UI when choosing an unit to build, except if we start to make individual description text for each unit in the game.
thecivinator58
Warlord
Perhaps, with certain units, an individual description would be justified, like the Panzer IV, or KV-2, or maybe even the CV series of Italian tankettes, if we add them. I remember that rhettrongun had different "Gun" and "Armor" levels for tanks in his Mod, perhaps we could use something of that nature?
thecivinator58
Warlord
I believe you that this modifications are "historically accurate", but how will they influence balance? I can't see if Nazis are able to have early expansion (poland/france/benelux/norway) with getting nerved. My last game as Hitler (is long ago but still present) i struggle a lot with my tanks vs the russian KV-models even with lvl 6-8 III&IV...
Are you sure it won't be a to tough nerf to Hitler?
Are you sure it won't be a to tough nerf to Hitler?
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