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"Conspiracy theories"? Give it your best shot.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hans66, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. Hans66

    Hans66 Chieftain

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    Flatearthers or whatever. Just what i had on my mind now and not to be too specific since i think the subject in itself CAN be interesting if it doesn´t go totally haywire and becomes just goofy, and at least to me, total nonsense.
    I do believe though that in some cases it´s not really just some fantasy joyride for all the fun & giggles only but rather interesting, (apart from actually what i first mentioned now, flat earth believers, then it´s one "sigh" from me at least).

    But who am i to discriminate and i really do hope now that this subject haven´t been covered already so i now post multiply threads, it´s not very liked in some places, forums.

    I like a LOT what´s abstract and not really a proven fact by today´s scientists\society and let the journey for that esotheric, and Gnostic TRUTH´s that´s hidden from the common eye get debated, or why not what i hope for really, totally revealed and exposed, in the end at least.
    One fine day of ours perhaps on this glass marble we call Tellus. (darn, spellcheck says no? In SWEDEN it´s spelled "TELLUS"!).
    Did i make one poetic punchline there now? Was it good?
    Give me some feedback here now please.

    (on this subject then preferably).
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  2. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

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    I've said it before in another thread, but I actually find flatearthers and peoples' responses to them really interesting when examined through a Foucaultian knowledge-power lens. The specifics of their argumentation, logic, and "evidence" are obviously wrong, but the meta-argument they're gesturing towards - the way our society fetishizes "experts" and the asymmetry of the relations in our institutionalized structures of power is absolutely a valid critique which is, by and large, completely left out of regular discourse about the topic.

    All conspiracy theories basically reduce down to the above meta-argument, but I think the anti-vaxxers and flatearthers are particularly interesting because, while those two also presuppose some vast super cohesive, coordinated cabal which is at once hyper competent and omnipresent but also so ineffectual that ordinary people could casually identify smoking guns all over the place, the core critique of anti-vaxxers (and anti-GMOs) and flatearthers is, again, not so much concerned with the power dynamics of the state and the individual, but instead the power relations between academics, institutionalized knowledge, and laypeople, which is a far more interesting analysis than your garden-variety conspiratorial deep state nonsense.

    To me conspiracy theorists are a lot like fascists - often the underlying observations that drive their analysis are absolutely correct (it's why they tend to have so much staying power despite often being very casually demonstrably false), it's just in their analytic framework, and the conclusions they draw from applying that framework where they go totally off the rails.

    Oh, also the anti-flatearther community is racist af. The racial dynamics add another layer of interest to the whole thing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
    Hygro, Lord Shadow, hobbsyoyo and 2 others like this.
  3. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Warlord

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    I have a friend who heavily buys into a lot of conspiracy theories. I've had to stop talking about them with her as it just degenerates. If we don't delve into them she has a sense of humour about it though, and I try to be open-minded to the stuff she says. But ultimately the whole belief structure around them is inpenetrable and unfalsifiable.
     
  4. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    The world is controlled by the Dolphino-Martian Illuminati!
     
  5. Hans66

    Hans66 Chieftain

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    I can name no less than THREE topics that i believe is totally inflated, debonked (debunked). And out of the door\window...get OUTTA HERE!
    Like that, you know.
    Well these three then:
    The Loch Ness "monster"
    Bermuda Triangle
    And.....drum roll?
    The Alien autopsy video, proven to be a hoax, actually.
    What do anybody got to say about that now? Huh? Huh? (since i´m too lazy to type just why now, right).
    Cheeky fella me.

    Good day :)

    What if i told you....
    I had joined this forum just 2 days later? Know what i mean, hint, hint.
    And that i´m born on halloweeeeeen! In the middle of the night.
    In the sign Scorpio of course and do i have to say the year? 66, one number short of 666.
    And that i became a Christian after seeing signs in the sky. Now i will ruin the almost perfect Yin & Yang comparison but i FEAR to reveal my whole security number. It would be rather evident if i named the other numbers.
    (Or have i said too much already).

    Is that a "conspiracy theory"? Sort of, i guess.
    Believe in it anyone, myself included, who wants to. The joker is wild and trick or treat!

    Good evening
     
  6. Pangur Bán

    Pangur Bán Deconstructed

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    @Owen Glyndwr I'd suggest disliking the term 'conspiracy theory' immensely and purposely neglecting the use of it. Basically, we live in a world where almost all the decisions affecting our lives are made by people more powerful than us, in secret. We don't typically get to see why they decide things, and rely on speculation, rational deduction or else on whistle blowers. The decision-makers, at least the few of them who get any attention, explain why they make such and such a decision via professional PR people who use their skills and techniques to create and publicise favourable explanations. Then anyone that disputes the PR is a 'conspiracy theorist'. So it's basically a term used to stigmatise thought and undermine the process of accountability. It works because we're continually told about a few flagship 'conspiracy theories' like holy elders of Zion, alien coverups and the anti-vax thing, but most of the time its being used its to silence people like Carole Cadwalladr or stigmatise any sort of counter-hegemonic viewpoint. The best of it is that 'conspiracy', despite being a very reasonable explanation for things in many instances, doesn't even feature prominently in many of the flagship theories. Anti-vaxers don't usually specify conspiracy as the mechanism for the marginization of their view in mainstream science, they're more likely to cite power structures or the herd mentality of scientists (criticisms of mainstream science that are mainstream among professional scientists and philosophers of science), and even more likely to lack any well thought out mechanism. At the other end of the spectrum, Noam Chomsky has spent his life being called a conspiracy theorist, even though he wrote a book and continually publishes material outlining cogent theories why, for instance, the media behaves in a servile way towards power that DO NOT rely on 'conspiracy' as a mechanism. People often point out that game developers are out to make a profit just like every other business in the modern world, but I don't know how often I've seen people saying that get called 'conspiracy nuts' for that...symptomatic of the term's function elsewhere. I've got to the stage I cringe whenever I hear someone use the term.
     
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  7. Hans66

    Hans66 Chieftain

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    You object to "rabbit ears" in the topic line?
    OK!
    They´re cute though? No?
    Darn, no wabbit smiley. Oh well. :wallbash:
     
  8. really

    really Chieftain

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    Very topical:

    Spoiler for image with infractible word :
     
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  9. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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    The thing with the foucaultian perspective is, it's unmanageable to go about questioning everything. He kind of lost himself in his analyses... they become academically interesting but ultimately do not inform that much on what actually moves people and directs society. One risks coming away with a conclusion that "it's bloody complex" and feeling even more powerless and "neutralized".

    We live in a rather entangling society, yes, but the decision-makers are not just a few. If they were it wouldn't be so difficult to disentangle it!
     
  10. Hans66

    Hans66 Chieftain

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    For Christ sake.
    OK, lets solve this one once and for all shall we.
    Take a plane and fly it in one direction, East, straight to the east and if refueling is necessary do that on the way, include that procedure as well.
    If you then after flying across the GLOBE you end up at the same place, it´s proved round the earth.
    Then we can stop this one and bag it and save it for those days for many people of the future, the more advanced and progressed ones, those gentle and shiny happy people in the future to reference to and point finger at and say; "Haha! Look at those silly apes. What were they thinking right there really? Oh man". :)
    Not you all here now.

    Tea and scones they consume then, about 100 years from now and they will hug a lot each other each and every day because they will make love a lot.
    Aaaaaw. :) :love:

    Edit: And the horizon curve at a distance because of.....?
    Say no more! Hint, hint and nudge nudge.
    I fetched and quoted a person i perhaps didn´t need to single out for this response now. My bad.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  11. innonimatu

    innonimatu Warlord

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    The flat earthers are just "trolling", that's what you're saying? Always though so myself, but it's not something that attracted much of my attention.
     
  12. Hans66

    Hans66 Chieftain

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    Cool :smoke::scan: :thumbsup:
    And yes, i have not enough time IN THIS LIFE to get entangled with, shall i say it? bullfeathers.
    I need to get to the point and straight to the truth´s preferably because otherwise? A waste of time.
    Is it FUN to drive a wild and false doctrine?
    I personally fail to see the joy in putting down time on folly, stupidities. This one is just that in my book.
    So, if it´s talked about i PERHAPS should just ignore it? Fine. Whatever.

    Edit: it became "bullfeathers", *giggles*. Neat.
     
  13. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Conspiracy theories you say?
    Well, as a Swede you should know about the assassination of Olof Palme.
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...n-prime-minister-unsolved-murder-new-evidence

    Then, of course, we have the Colin Wallace/MI5/'Clockwork Orange' allegations, in that elements of MI5 believe the Labour Prime Minister, Harold Wilson, was a secret communist and worked to destabilize his government through a smear campaign and possibly in coordination with BOSS.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clockwork_Orange_(plot)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Wallace
     
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  14. Mouthwash

    Mouthwash Escaped Lunatic

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    There's a surprisingly intricate and comprehensive website run by someone called 'Wild Heretic'. This guy believes that we live on the inside of a hollow sphere, lit by a half-light half-dark Sun at its center (he claims that light bends in order to produce the effect of rising and setting), that the moon is an optical illusion, that manmade satellites don't really exist, that the stars are light artifacts produced in the atmosphere and are never seen above it, and he has a bunch of explanations for the other celestial bodies like comets and galaxies.

    Overall, head-and-shoulders above the usual contrarian theorizing. Wild Heretic presents nine main pieces of evidence for his model:

    1. Some early modern maps have inversed latitude and longitude
    2. Modern polyconic maps show more accurate sizes and shapes
    3. 19th century balloon observations (that is, without an intervening medium) gave the impression of a concave surface
    4. 4,000 foot plumb lines reportedly were farther away from each other at the bottom of a mine shaft
    5. A laser shot between two posts (over water) seems to curve downwards
    6. An old rectilineator experiment indicates a concave surface
    7. Radar and radio wave horizons cannot be explained on a convex ball
    8. Ships disappearing below the horizon are an optical illusion
    9. Light bends upwards, which allows for the rising/setting illusion of the sun and moon

    If you're conversant in science (@Bootstoots?), I think it'll be an interesting challenge to refute all this. He is probably a troll and attention-seeker but that doesn't detract from the experience!

    So, uh, I'm guessing you have an excellent reason for why this valid critique need not apply to yourself?
     
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  15. Hans66

    Hans66 Chieftain

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    I saw last night, well today´s night, about those who on Facebook rallied up folks to storm Area 51 to reveal all the "SECRETS" they say is hidden there. 2.000.000 signed up for the call to arms but it was just, how many was it that showed up for it in fact?
    Some 20 to 50 people arrested i think or transported away from there and they didn´t get to see or do anything at all as far as i know.
    Now that´s another big one isn´t it?
    I saw it on something called text TV that we´ve got here in Sweden for news on the regular tell-Lie-vision box, i don´t know if "you people" have it elsewhere in the world. Good for having a quick look at what´s going on in this world.
     
  16. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    I like the simulated reality theories. With the main point being that simulated realities should outnumber real realities so thus we're probably in a simulated reality right now.

    I've heard some good counter points but I fail to remember most of it.

    Spoiler :
     
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  17. Hans66

    Hans66 Chieftain

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    And, from one overview of this place now, and nothing to do about the reply above at all, i believe it´s one more post for me to make and then it´s time for a break? (Or to leave here all together).
    Why? Because just PERHAPS it´s written in the "stars", "something" tells me it´s one more comment and then play time over.
    Guess just why i say this and win a cookie.

    Edit: No it wasn´t after all!
    I was making a little "fun" try at a game of "can you connect my post count with the number in my user name" game. As well my birth year. But i made 2 more posts just now so to hell with that quiz game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  18. Snerk

    Snerk Smeghead

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    My top conspiracy theory is that Hans66 is actually Swedishguy resurrected.
     
  19. Hans66

    Hans66 Chieftain

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    I debunk that theory immediately then, not so. Scouts honor.
    The truth and nothing but the truth. He was like me? Cool! :)
     
  20. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Chieftain

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    EE's Conspiracy Theory Number 1:

    The world we live in reflects changes made by time travellers from alternate futures.

    Tin-pot-hat logic as follows:

    Ever wondered why two, and only two, nuclear bombs have been dropped
    on cities since the development of the "critical mass" calculations?

    Answer. Because in all the other timelines; it turned out that dropping one was simply not enough to act as a deterrent
    (because people too many chose to disbelieve it claiming it was a meterorite strike etc); or far more atomic bombs were
    dropped on cities. Destroying just two cities was the best outcome a succession of intervening time travelers could manage.
     

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