Constant District Cost Mod 0.3

[ichbinsehselber]

ichbinsehselber submitted a new resource:

Constant District Cost Mod - this mod will make cost of districts constant

This mod is a very small change but has a big impact on game play.
It addresses the problem that in vanilla civ6 in later game the districts become very expensive.

In vanilla civ6 cost of each district is scaled with
a.) tech progress which makes districts for production, gold, faith,... very expensive in mid / late game.
b.) with game progress which makes districts for housing and amenities (aqueduct, neighbourhood) very expensive in mid / late game

My thought is that this is not a good idea and my testing showed that to my own feeling the game plays more nicely with the mod....

Read more about this resource...

 

[ichbinsehselber]

reserved

 

[Setrax]

I'm very interested in seeing how this balances the game. My first opinion is that it would make spamming cities even more viable. With the ability to plop 5 cities and each have an encampment + commercial hub, the best strategy for the game is to just constantly pump out cities as early as possible. The production scaling seems to be an attempt at nerfing spreading wide.

Maybe increasing the scaling cost of settlers would help balance it?

 

[ichbinsehselber]

Yes, you are most likely right. As I am coming as early as from civ1, I am used to the best strat being pumping out settlers early. But at early civ versions cities were more vulnerable having no defense other than the units within. So, yes, this might be an issue in civ6.

But my idea is actually to not make the districts much cheaper at the start of the game but rather avoid the scaling up to imho unreasonably high number.

 

[Setrax]

Yes, you are most likely right. As I am coming as early as from civ1, I am used to the best strat being pumping out settlers early. But at early civ versions cities were more vulnerable having no defense other than the units within. So, yes, this might be an issue in civ6.

But my idea is actually to not make the districts much cheaper at the start of the game but rather avoid the scaling up to imho unreasonably high number.

That makes sense. From previous discussions, since the districts scale with amount of techs researched, would a viable strategy be holding off on science/culture until you've built several districts? Maybe reducing the scaling by 50% would have a desired effect as well.

My fear is that this will simply make the AI even easier to beat, as we will be able to spam science and upgrade troops faster than we already can.

I'll play with it in a few hours and see how it went. Thanks for the changes, I've been wanting to test this out since launch.

 

[sresk]

I'd thought about this change for some of my own mods and yeah the problem is that going wide is alreayd so strong this only makes wide even more OP than tall

 

[ichbinsehselber]

ichbinsehselber updated Constant District Cost Mod with a new update entry:

Updated Base Cost of all Districts

This version 0.2 contains an update of the district base cost to roughly 150% (it varies a bit for each district).
So for instance base cost of holy district was 60 and now is 90.
Compared to Vanilla civ6 you will notice a more expensive district if you build the holy or campus or encampment district really early.

But in most cases the districts will be much cheaper (due to the lack of scaling by tech / game progress)

This update should be better balanced as districts are no longer ultra...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Xaviarlol]

The problem you'll have with removing the cost modifier over time is that Districts will way too cheap towards the mid game and late game, making them hands down the best things to spam.

 

[ichbinsehselber]

Who wants to spend 5 times the production cost to build the same building in a new city? No, what we really want is to build a more expensive upgraded settler which already contains the basic buildings so that we don't have to build all those old buildings again in the new cities. With districts this seems impossible, since the districts have to be located on the map but with other buildings it could work. In any case I would find it more reasonable if the second district of the same type would be cheaper than the first one. The architects might get some experience after all.

Imagine someone going into a shop:
A: I'd like to buy a guitar.
B: It costs 60
A: I'll think about it.
B: Oh, the latest news came in. Einstein just invented the theory of relativity. Of course the price of the guitar is now 70.
A: Of course, I totally understand that. It is a good reason to now pay gladly 70 for the guitar.

 

[Baleur]

I'd prefer a version of this mod that rather just lowered the exponential cost increase by 25% or something, rather than removing it completely

 

[waflmlk]

Hi, I myself edited my districts.xml to change the district cost solely by game progress to not break it completely. I wanted to ask if it may be possible to create a mod that makes the cost of the first district in every city the base cost and then make every additional district for that city only more expensive? So it would still be balanced and you can get the first one or two districts in a new city fast instead of 50 turn district buildings in a new city because your capital already has a few.

 

[ichbinsehselber]

I'd prefer a version of this mod that rather just lowered the exponential cost increase by 25% or something, rather than removing it completely

I am not sure if CostProgressionParam1 configures the amount of scaling by tech or if it configures the amount of discount because you have fewer districts than average . So possibly you get where you want by tweaking this parameter.

Hi, I myself edited my districts.xml to change the district cost solely by game progress to not break it completely. I wanted to ask if it may be possible to create a mod that makes the cost of the first district in every city the base cost and then make every additional district for that city only more expensive? So it would still be balanced and you can get the first one or two districts in a new city fast instead of 50 turn district buildings in a new city because your capital already has a few.

My (current) knowledge of civ6 modding is limited. It is not possible by simply modding the xml file. It may be possible to add code logic to achieve what you want. (I have no plans to do this in the near future)

 

[NeoNio]

How about making district cost scale with the number of districts for that particular district, like first campus cost 60, second 90 and so on, but it only affects each type of district individually. As it is with the mod you can build everything everywhere.

 

[Scatter]

The problem you'll have with removing the cost modifier over time is that Districts will way too cheap towards the mid game and late game, making them hands down the best things to spam.

The solution here then is to address the obvious problem: that districts themselves are ridiculously overpowered. That an empty district earns you GPP - or any bonuses at all is simply ridiculous. It would be far better to have a constant cost for districts of next to nothing (say 70pp for the Holy and scale from there), but have all the bonuses spread more thinly amongst individual buildings (of which the game needs many, many, more) within that district -eg a shrine gives +1 faith, but an extra +2 for each rainforest surrounding the district; while a second building, let's say a congregation hall, would offer some other different bonus (say +1 from each surrounding forest)...

The rationale here is that the districts are essentially empty shells. You can justify the initial build cost as planning, which naturally become quicker as tech progresses. You could even scale back the population requirement for a district with this method and it would keep the game balanced (I would argue more balanced). Instead of a fourth district at pop 13, you could make it that you can build a district per each pop in a city - so by the time a city reaches a population of 8, it could theoretically have built 8 districts. The control mechanism would be pretty simple, certain/most/all buildings have a population minimum before they can be built. For example, you could build a harbour in a 1 pop city, but you wouldn't get the trade route until you build a customs house, which can't be built until the city reaches a population of 5 (these are arbitrary numbers I'm plucking out of my arse to make a point, they'd obviously need to be tested). Until then, a harbour might only be useful for the lighthouse and (dis)embarkation penalty relief. It's pretty ridiculous that you can currently build a harbour in a city with a single population and gain a trade route from it imo.

The district buildings should also be more expensive to build - but not exponentially so. If there's enough of them, with bonuses spread adequately (and relatively thinly), the game would be infinitely more balanced and far more enjoyable imo...

 

[Rafein]

Personaly, I'd rather approach it from a different way, by making techs and Civics more useful and powerful. Right now, a lot are just here's a policy card or 2, go get the next one. Course, I'm looking at it as more a long term, total rebalance.

Having things like Construction reduce the hammer cost of all districts by 25%, having Medieval Fairs add a 2nd great write slot to the Amp. ust things that make your Civ feel more powerful, and feel more modern as you play. Right now, it feels like the longer you go, the weaker your City building becomes.

 

[ichbinsehselber]

How about making district cost scale with the number of districts for that particular district, like first campus cost 60, second 90 and so on, but it only affects each type of district individually. As it is with the mod you can build everything everywhere.

You can do this with CostProgressionModel="COST_PROGRESSION_PREVIOUS_COPIES"
(as you know from the title, this mod aims just at constant cost)

The solution here then is to address the obvious problem: that districts themselves are ridiculously overpowered. That an empty district earns you GPP - or any bonuses at all is simply ridiculous. It would be far better to have a constant cost for districts of next to nothing (say 70pp for the Holy and scale from there), but have all the bonuses spread more thinly amongst individual buildings (of which the game needs many, many, more) within that district -eg a shrine gives +1 faith, but an extra +2 for each rainforest surrounding the district; while a second building, let's say a congregation hall, would offer some other different bonus (say +1 from each surrounding forest)...

The rationale here is that the districts are essentially empty shells. You can justify the initial build cost as planning, which naturally become quicker as tech progresses. You could even scale back the population requirement for a district with this method and it would keep the game balanced (I would argue more balanced). Instead of a fourth district at pop 13, you could make it that you can build a district per each pop in a city - so by the time a city reaches a population of 8, it could theoretically have built 8 districts. The control mechanism would be pretty simple, certain/most/all buildings have a population minimum before they can be built. For example, you could build a harbour in a 1 pop city, but you wouldn't get the trade route until you build a customs house, which can't be built until the city reaches a population of 5 (these are arbitrary numbers I'm plucking out of my arse to make a point, they'd obviously need to be tested). Until then, a harbour might only be useful for the lighthouse and (dis)embarkation penalty relief. It's pretty ridiculous that you can currently build a harbour in a city with a single population and gain a trade route from it imo.

The district buildings should also be more expensive to build - but not exponentially so. If there's enough of them, with bonuses spread adequately (and relatively thinly), the game would be infinitely more balanced and far more enjoyable imo...

Your idea sounds interesting and would deserve its own mod. It goes well beyond what I want to achieve here.

Personaly, I'd rather approach it from a different way, by making techs and Civics more useful and powerful. Right now, a lot are just here's a policy card or 2, go get the next one. Course, I'm looking at it as more a long term, total rebalance.

Having things like Construction reduce the hammer cost of all districts by 25%, having Medieval Fairs add a 2nd great write slot to the Amp. ust things that make your Civ feel more powerful, and feel more modern as you play. Right now, it feels like the longer you go, the weaker your City building becomes.

Agree mostly. There are some very powerful civics already though. E.g. the Civic which double the adjacency bonus for industrial zone and the civic which reduces settler cost by 50%


***

Updated the original post with a note about game speed (I think there is a problem in civ6 with the balancing of game speeds)
Some of the comments in this thread might actually come from the fact that they play at different game speeds. So, if you test and comment on this mod could you please include at which game speed you played...

 

[Zeusmoltar9]

I did a video spotlight on this mod with some visual install instructions. Hopefully it will attract a few more people here to test things out at different speeds and such. Really appreciate the work and I hope this mod continues to grow.

I have been using this mod with a few others, like delnar ai cleanup and warmongering mods. Things all work well together and tuning things feel a lot better. anyway thanks again!

here is the video:

 

[ichbinsehselber]

Thanks a lot for making and posting this video Zeus! I enjoyed watching it. It is good to see that the mod component can be combined in practice.

Just a minor correction: The scaling of the districts in the original vanilla civ6 is not by number of cities but depending on the district type by number of techs or by game progress (which is probably just the number of turns).

 

[Zeusmoltar9]

Thanks a lot for making and posting this video Zeus! I enjoyed watching it. It is good to see that the mod component can be combined in practice.

Just a minor correction: The scaling of the districts in the original vanilla civ6 is not by number of cities but depending on the district type by number of techs or by game progress (which is probably just the number of turns).

oh thanks for the correction, i'll edit it into the video.

 

[Brave Sir Robin]

doesn't scale with game speed
I play epic base cost was still 90