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Constitution Discussion : Article B

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by DaveShack, Jul 7, 2004.

  1. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Here is a starting point for Article B -- discussion?

    Code:
    Article B.  Governing rules shall consist of these Articles of the 
                Constitution, such amendments that shall follow and lower
                forms of law that may be implemented. No rule shall be 
                valid that contradicts these Articles excepting an 
                amendment or lower form of law specifically tasked
                to do so.
    
     
  2. Sarevok

    Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator

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  3. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    I understand it and it works for me.
     
  4. zorven

    zorven 12,000 Suns

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    Absolutely not. With this text, a law can contradict the constitution and it would be perfectly legal. There would never be such a thing as an unconstitutional law. For example, the constitution says the President shall be elected. Now, a lower law says that the President is selected by the first person to post that they want to be President. This would be perfectly legal and constitutional.
     
  5. Bill_in_PDX

    Bill_in_PDX Grumpy Submariner

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    I agree with zorven.

    I am missing the point of inserting wording that lets lower laws override the constitution.

    It seems to me that if you want to change or modify the constitution, then we should do just that. Not generate potentially conflicting laws below it.
     
  6. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    This issue all came about in previous DGs. If a loophole or just plain bad rule was found in the Constitution and could easily be changed by appropriating a new or amended lower law, then that scenario was better to deal with than meeting the stringent laws for Amending the Constituion. Later in the game, participation may be at a level which is too low to achieve quorum.

    Also a lower law can articulate an Article's wording to accomodate a mid-game situation, which again is much easier than getting an amedment to the Constituiton.
     
  7. gert-janl

    gert-janl Alive!!!

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    Still what you're doing is cheating on the constitution. There simply can't be a lower law contradicting the constitution, and than be superior to the constitution. Therefore I deleted that out of the proposal. I let the amendment thing alive as the constitution should be 'amendable'.
    Any further thoughts?

    Code:
    Article B.  Governing rules shall consist of these Articles of the 
                Constitution, such amendments that shall follow and lower
                forms of law that may be implemented. No rule shall be 
                valid that contradicts these Articles excepting an 
                amendment specifically tasked to do so.
    
     
  8. Sarevok

    Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator

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  9. gert-janl

    gert-janl Alive!!!

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    I did ;) But as I said I left the excepting amendments part, because I believe that we should always be able to change the constitution when the need arises.
     
  10. Danel

    Danel Chieftain

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    Maybe you should say:
    Article B. Governing rules shall consist of these Articles of the
    Constitution, such amendments that shall follow and lower
    forms of law that may be implemented. No rule shall be
    valid that contradicts these Articles. The Constitution
    amendments can be added/modified/removed when the
    need arises
     
  11. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    Danel, I like your proposal.
     
  12. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    Proposed poll for Article B

    Code:
    Article B.  Governing rules shall consist of these Articles of the 
                Constitution, such amendments that shall follow and lower
                forms of law that may be implemented. No rule shall be 
                valid that contradicts these Articles. The Constitution 
                amendments can be added/modified/removed when the 
                need arises. 
     
  13. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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