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Constitution Discussion : Article E, Legislative Branch

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by DaveShack, Jul 8, 2004.

  1. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Thread for discussion of Article E, Legislative Branch.

    There is some discussion on this topic in the Article D discussion thread, and other places, regarding whether the governors are executive or legislative. This thread can be used for deciding whether we need more than just a vote of the citizens to pass new laws, or if we need some other, presumably smaller body to also vote.

    Here is the starting point article from the general discussions thread, which assumes the citizens are the legislature, with no Senate.

    Code:
    Article E.  The Legislative Branch will be the Congress,
                will consists of the entirety of the citizenry and is 
                responsible for the drafting of new Laws.
    
    Here is the suggestion from Epimethius
    Code:
    Article E.  The Legislative Branch will be the [i]National Assembly[/i],
                will consists of the entirety of the citizenry and is 
                responsible for the drafting of new Laws and the election
                of executive, legislative, and judicial officials.[i]
                 1.  The Vice or Deputy President shall preside over the
                     Assembly and the drafting of laws.[/i]
    

    Ravensfire offered up this example, which keeps the existing definition of a senate formed by the governors.
    Code:
    Article I.  Legislative Branch
    The Legislative Branch will be formed of two houses.  
    
    The Senate will be formed of the Provincial Governors, each 
    of whom are responsible for the care, management and use of 
    the cities and lands of a province through the setting of 
    build queues, allocation of laborers on tiles, the use of 
    population rushes and drafting of soldiers.
    
    Each Governor shall determine any policies and procedures 
    needed to carry out their duties.
    
    The Congress will be formed of the entirety of the 
    citizenry and is responsible for the drafting of new Laws.
    
     
  2. Octavian X

    Octavian X is not a pipe.

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    No more Senate. Like in Canada, the Senate here is a useless rubber-stamp organization. And, of course, the presence of the Senate conflicts with my proposal to get rid of governors as elected officials.

    Of the three presented above, Epimethius' idea is the best. Give the VP something to do. I know all to well what it's like to be a VP without anything to do. :p
     
  3. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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    No more Senate.
     
  4. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    The Senate was actually a good thing, before someone thought of putting them in control of the sliders. When people like Shaitan and myself were Governors, we used the Senate as a common meeting ground for the Governors to discuss global issues within our realm. Too bad the Senate is now seen as an eye-sore instead of the good thing it used to be.
     
  5. Black_Hole

    Black_Hole Deity

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    yeh, i think we could find some good use for the senate
     
  6. Epimethius

    Epimethius Wish I Hadn't Been Here

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    If we need a council of governors, we can have a Council of Governors. It would help for dividing up the quotas created by National Projects. It would simply be a forum (in the old, pre-internet sense) for the governors to coordinate their operations and figure things out together, with no powers on its own.
     
  7. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    this needs to be decided upon soon. Senate or no senate?

    If there is no counter proposal. I will move forward with a proposal in 24 hours removing the senate completely from this article.
     
  8. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

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    I vote Senate. There must be some way for Provinces to work as a check against the Executive Branch. Perhaps that is too complex, but we should at least keep the Senate intact in case we do devise a function for it. If not, it acts as a Council of Governors.
     
  9. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    counterproposals DZ, counterproposals!

    the time for discussion is rapidly running out, we need laws written not comments.
     
  10. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

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    I say give the Governors no legal "COLLECTIVE" power, they can not vote except as citizens, but of course as governors have power over the build queues.

    However, a Council of Governors should be established, for Governors to work together and plan to meet national goals. Also as a place where leaders can bring force priorities and requests to the govenors collectively.
     
  11. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    I fully agree with falcon.
     
  12. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

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    Governor's control Build queue's how much more of a check do ya need?

    The Governor's position is probobly one of the most powerful, most influencial positions to the game, despite the fact it is often viewed as an entry lvl position, a bad governor can easily doom our civilization.

    but at least we seem to all agree a Council of Governors is necciary
     
  13. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Yeah, I'd say go with DaveShack's proposal and leave the Vice President out of it. If we need a Senate we can always amend the Constitution.
     
  14. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

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    So that said, Ravensfire's proposal is the closest. It would need to be dressed up a bit(a roman numeral here and there), but is pretty much along Falcon's reasoning.
     
  15. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Well, come to think of it, where else in the Constitution are the Governors mentioned? Their description has to be somewhere. So I'll change to ravenfire's proposal too.
     
  16. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

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    I'll agree with Ravensfire's though I think it should note that the Senate is to help the Governors to work together.

    Italics are what I edited... I think Council of Governors is more appropriate then Senate anyway.

    Oh and obviously if we change or mind on giving the Council legal power outside of the governor position itself, we can amend it later.
     
  17. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    I'm ok with Falcon02's edited version (except for spelling mistakes which need correcting). However now we're missing a definition for provinces -- don't know if that actually matters.
     
  18. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    As in number of cities? I recall a poll...

    *jumps headfirst into the archives*
     
  19. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

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    :p I'm an engineer not an English major.... don't have Word's spell check out either... :lol:

    Anyway, Provinces can be defined one of two ways I can see... # of cities, and # of tiles.

    Keep in mind some provinces may grow in the number of cities they have after they are defined.
     
  20. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Last point was a good one, Falc. I'd go with the standard number of tiles.
     

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