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Constitution Discussion : Article G

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by Rik Meleet, Jul 19, 2004.

  1. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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    Here is a starting point for Article G -- discussion?

    Code:
    Article G.  All elected positions shall have a fixed term. All vacant 
                elected positions shall be filled by appointment of a 
                citizen to fulfill the remainder of the term.
    
     
  2. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Define vacant. And don't say "my skull".
     
  3. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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    I'll try.

    All positions which have no elected citizen after the elections or who have been vacated by the officeholder voluntarily or forcefully shall be filled by appointment of a citizen to fulfill the remainder of the term.

    - Perhaps we also need a time-span for this.
     
  4. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    Well, it depends. Are Ministers going to appoint deputies? If so when/ how soon?

    Is the President going to apoint the Ministers? If so when/ how soon? Is it the President that declares an Office "Vacant"? How long must they wait for a deadbeat Minister? Must they wait for the Election Office to declare an Office "Vacant"? Are we going to have Election Office regulations? Where do they fit in the chain of command?

    Everything is connected.
     
  5. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    Cyc, thats like asking the dictionary people to define Pen without including the word ink ;)

    Absent after 48 hours, vacated after 2 turn chat sessions? Unless impeached or resignation of course.
     
  6. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    This one as written tripped us up big time in DG4.

    I think that runoff elections need to be spelled out somewhere.

    Deputies are the runners up according to this poll so we only need appointments for the cases where there was only one candidate (to appoint a deputy, or if the office becomes vacant before one can be appointed), or no candidates (to appoint a leader, and then to appoint a deputy). Oh, also an appointment is needed if a deputy moves up as an effect of the official leaving.
     
  7. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    Proposed Article G Poll:

    Code:
    Article G.  All elected positions shall have a fixed term of one month. All 
                elected positions left in absentia for two calender weeks shall be
                considered vacent and a deputy will fulfill the remainder of the term.
                Should a deputy not be applicable to the position, a bi-election
                will be conducted.
    
     
  8. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

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    I object to the term bi-election, as it flies in the the face of CFC's indecency crackdown. :lol:

    Serious now. Can we just say "mid-term election" instead?

    On a personal note, I will vote against the ratification of this Article if it includes deputies. Deputies should not be a part of the Constitution IMHO. And they should certainly not be the runner-up from an election, which this Article somewhat implies but does not state.

    Does anyone have an objection to deputies being optional?
     
  9. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    does my lifestyle offend you DZ :lol:

    Upon consideration, there needs to be a poll on the optionality of deputies unless there hasnt been one already.

    The article as it stands does not imply deputies are required, as the phrase "if applicable" is contained, as long as If applicable means "not required"
     
  10. Cyc

    Cyc Looking for the door...

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    I wasn't going to touch this one as it will prove to be a pain, but....

    1. The only positions where a Deputy is not applicable are the Justices. The Vice President is the Deputy President. I believe the Deputies should be appointed, so I'm kind of biased, but the poll says runner-ups will be the Deputies. No way around that.

    So if we take out the last sentance because it only applies to the Judiciary, we would need to replace it with something about the CJ covering for the missing Justice, or the President appointing a new one.
     
  11. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

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    Yes, Deputies are important.

    A.) provides a position where newer players can gain experience and a reputation in a department. At least in my terms, inactive Deputies were not the result of not having anything to do, I specifically looked for, and asked for my deputy's suggestions.

    B.) provides a voice in the instruction thread should the leader be unable to post. Sometimes a leader's inability to post can be unexpected and someone should be inplace to take over the job in that absence. Even if a leader plans to attend, RL can many times unexpectantly interupt that with no warning. (ie. in extreme cases a car accident).

    Or maybe a quick election vote? We could also apply that to all sudden vacancies... however... that does add inefficiency refilling the positions.
     
  12. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Runners up as deputies ensure at least one thing -- the person who gets the job wanted a job in that ministry to begin with. With appointed deputies, I had to go searching for someone to appoint, with spotty results at best.
     
  13. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

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    Yes, I remember being nurtured as your Military deputy, and I STILL lost to you the next month. :lol: That said, you raise a good point. I still don't sgree with runner-up in the election as deputy, but hey, at least its not in the Constitution. ;)

    Even still, with participation as low as it is should leaders(save the Judiciary, of course) be required to have deputies?
     
  14. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

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    How about this, the Leader must make an attempt to find a deputy (regardless of runner up or appointed track) should the deputy possition be vacant. If the Leader is unable to find any candidates for Deputy, the position of deputy shall remain open until the position shall be filled.

    So in otherwords, if lack of participation prohibits a deputy, then there is no negative effect for there being no deputy.

    We need to resolve the appointed/runner up issue though....
     
  15. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    I like the concept of making the deputy optional -- and truth be known in DG4 there were multiple terms where many offices had no deputies.

    The runner up issue was already solved in a poll. If we are to follow the WOTP and avoid judicial battles it needs to be written into the law. Gotta either put it into the Constitution, or have a CoL. :(
     
  16. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

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    DS Optional in what sence?

    The sence that I stated, or the sence that a Leader can say "I don't need no stinking deputy!"?
     
  17. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    Yes, the people are overwhelmingly in favour of runner ups being the deputies.

    They will it, Ill write it. Whether I agree or not.,
     
  18. Donovan Zoi

    Donovan Zoi The Return

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    We can try to ratify the Article with it in there, but I will vocally fight it. It's not a law yet, Dave. Besides, it was a very close vote so acceptance is not a foregone conclusion.
     
  19. Falcon02

    Falcon02 General

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    Okay, let's remember the vacant Deputiship due to particpation issue....

    how about this wording.
    meh, okay seeing DZ's post here's an alternative version, basically eliminating the "runner up portion"
    please note this is not intended to REPLACE the article but to be inserted in where appropriate.
     
  20. Immortal

    Immortal Deity

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    Code:
    Article G.  All elected positions shall have a fixed term of one month. All 
                elected positions left in absentia for two calender weeks shall be
                considered vacent. The deputy will fulfill the remainder of the term
                as it is the runner-up in the election. In absence of a runner-up an
                appointed citizen shall be the deputy.  
    
    Removed sentence: If no suitable deputy can be found, a moderator supervised mid-term election will be conducted.
     

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