Constitution: Proposal to add into admendment 5 of the COL

GenMarshall

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It has come to my attention in the recent election that the presidental office is empty. This is the first time that this has happened in the history of the demogame. Since there is no consitutional admendmend to deal with this scenario, I wish to push forward and open the floor to an addition to Section 5 in the COLs.

My plan is to cover all bases that would include the resination/impeachment of the president if he or she does not have a vice president.

Code:
    5. Vacant Offices
       [b]d. If in the event that the presidential office is vacant, 
          if either there is no one running for the presidency or if the 
          president resigns or is impeached without a vice president. 
          The Chief Justice, Judge Advocate, and the Public Defender 
          shall meet with one another to discuss, nominate, and vote 
          for the person for the presidency.[/b]

Please discuss and feel free to improve uppon this proposal :).
 
Looks good to me.
 
its ok as long as its in power by the end of the month, so i can vote. also perphas a part that allows for poll to not have the leader
 
Sorry, Nobody. The newly elected Judiciary should be responsible for the selection of the President.
 
Unfortunately, if no body nominated themselves, I am not sure why they would accept a nomination from the judiciary... but this really shows how low participation is...
 
Donovan Zoi said:
Sorry, Nobody. The newly elected Judiciary should be responsible for the selection of the President.
Heh, I guess I am in the newly elected Judicary ;)
 
I like the general principle, however communication can take a while so perhaps having the Chief Justice nominate a candidate for president to be approved by the JA and PD that would still be subject to a confirmation poll if a citizen wished to challenge the nomination.

and also if you don't wish to change it then I would at least remove the bolded part because it is redundant

5. Vacant Offices
d. If in the event that the presidential office is vacant,
if either there is no one running for the presidency or if the
president resigns or is impeached without a vice president.

The Chief Justice, Judge Advocate, and the Public Defender
shall meet with one another to discuss, nominate, and vote
for the person for the presidency.
 
Here is the latest changes thanks to Mhcarver's suggestions :). As usual, please feel free to modify the proposal to make it closer to it's final draft.

Code:
    5. Vacant Offices
       [b]d. If in the event that the presidential office is vacant, 
          The chief justice shall nominate a citizen for president. 
          The candidate that the chief justice nominates shall be 
          approved by both the public defender and the judge advocate.[/b]
 
CivGeneral said:
Here is the latest changes thanks to Mhcarver's suggestions :). As usual, please feel free to modify the proposal to make it closer to it's final draft.

Code:
    5. Vacant Offices
       [b]d. If in the event that the presidential office is vacant.
          The Chief Justice shall nominate a citizen for president.
          The canidate that the chief justice nominates shall be
          approved by both the public defender and the judge 
          advocate[/b]
needs proper punctuation and capitalization, but other than that its fine ;)
 
Black_Hole said:
needs proper punctuation and capitalization, but other than that its fine ;)
Law sent through spell & grammar checker. Capitalization and punctuation is done.
 
since a poll must be proposed for 24 hours before it can be submitted to the judiciary I would like to suggest that CG(this proposal is your baby) put one up soon so that the judiciary can begin the process of sending this to polling tommorow. I will be working from 3 in the afternoon (EST) till sometime after midnight and will be to tired to go on the internet. However if CG or someone were to propose this to the judiciary and issue rulings in which they clearly stated whatever they ruled would not be official until the CJ approved/ruled on it then I could put it up for polling sometime on tuesday morning.
 
This is a drive-by posting. I haven’t thought through what I’m about to say. Thus I may well change my mind on this later. And I commend CivGeneral on his hard work in putting together his proposal. My disagreement isn’t with him or with any members of the Judiciary. Rather, I think we’re setting a dangerous precedent.

Thus my immediate response to the idea that the Judiciary should determine who our next President should be is: I Object! I think the individuals in either the present or Term 5 Judiciary are capable people who are well-qualified to make this decision, but I think this stretches the role of the Judiciary. The Judiciary exists to resolve disputes, not to create policy (or appoint officials). If someone has a dispute about the procedures used to select a new, unelected President, what is their recourse? To which court can they appeal? This action essentially disenfranchises every citizen of Fanatannia. I fully realize this isn’t the intent behind CG’s proposal: we face a constitutional crisis, and his response (suggesting the Judiciary resolve this matter) does make sense on the surface. Indeed, it is practical and may be the ultimate solution.

But I think we’re in slippery slope land here, and urge caution. Let’s not rush into things here. Although some may argue we need to act quickly because a new term approaches, are they also suggesting that Fanatannians be made slaves to a calendar? Some argue that the citizens of Gordium are being disenfranchised by the mere breath of discussion that we should consider urban renewal projects to sacrifice some of Gordium’s existing structures so that the rest of Fanatannia will benefit; yet at a stroke they are willing to put the fate of all Fanatannians in the hands of three officials who will “nominate” (presumably subject to a vote of the citizens) our next leader. Why don’t we just change the name of the game to Oligarchy?

I don’t have a solution to this crisis. But my off-the-cuff response would be for someone – perhaps the current President, since our Constitution does task the President with appointing a “Citizen to any vacant office” (and yes I’m aware of the difficulties of our current situation) – to appoint a board of citizens to confer on this matter and nominate a candidate. Our current President still has powers for several days, so I suggest this solution would be well within the scope of her powers, and certainly more in tune with the spirit of the Constitution than what could be construed as – but which I do not believe is – a power grab by the Judiciary.

Bottomline? Let’s not rush into solving our Constitutional crisis. Let’s not wait for a period of about a month between Demo Games to “fix” the Constitution. Let’s act deliberately now so that we don’t again have to act frantically. This is an interesting problem; let’s select the best solution, not just the most expedient.
 
mhcarver said:
since a poll must be proposed for 24 hours before it can be submitted to the judiciary I would like to suggest that CG(this proposal is your baby) put one up soon so that the judiciary can begin the process of sending this to polling tommorow. I will be working from 3 in the afternoon (EST) till sometime after midnight and will be to tired to go on the internet. However if CG or someone were to propose this to the judiciary and issue rulings in which they clearly stated whatever they ruled would not be official until the CJ approved/ruled on it then I could put it up for polling sometime on tuesday morning.
Done and Done, though I will await merit status from the current CJ ;).
 
CivGeneral said:
Done and Done, though I will await merit status from the current CJ ;).
you havent posted the proposed poll in this topic yet!!! it must be posted 24 hours before submission to the judiciary
 
Black_Hole said:
you havent posted the proposed poll in this topic yet!!! it must be posted 24 hours before submission to the judiciary

He did. He just took it out for some reason.
 
Black_Hole said:
you havent posted the proposed poll in this topic yet!!! it must be posted 24 hours before submission to the judiciary
Chieftess said:
He did. He just took it out for some reason.

Mhcarver suggested that I can post it up ASAP :confused:. Anyway, here is the proposed poll.

Proposed Poll
Do you approve of the following changes to the Consitution?
Yes/No/Abstain and will run for a maxumum of 96 Hours

Original Text of the current consitution:
Code:
5.  Vacant Offices
        a.  An official or Justice may declare themselves to be 
            Absent for a period of time. This period may not exceed 1 
            week.  During this time, the deputy or pro-tem will act 
            with all power and duties of that office, surrendering 
            them to the official or Justice when they return or at 
            the end of the planned absence, whichever comes first.
            
        b.  Should an official fail to post in the DG forum for 3
            days in a thread related to their area without prior 
            notice, the Judiciary may declare that office Vacant.

        c.  If a Justice has not posted on any active Judicial matter 
            for three days, the remaining Justices may declare the 
            Justice Vacant.  If all three Justices fail to post on 
            any active Judicial matter for 3 days, the President may 
            declare all Judicial offices Vacant, and immediately 
            appoint a new Chief Justice.

Proposed Changes/Addition (Changes in Boldface):
Code:
5.  Vacant Offices
        a.  An official or Justice may declare themselves to be 
            Absent for a period of time. This period may not exceed 1 
            week.  During this time, the deputy or pro-tem will act 
            with all power and duties of that office, surrendering 
            them to the official or Justice when they return or at 
            the end of the planned absence, whichever comes first.
            
        b.  Should an official fail to post in the DG forum for 3
            days in a thread related to their area without prior 
            notice, the Judiciary may declare that office Vacant.

        c.  If a Justice has not posted on any active Judicial matter 
            for three days, the remaining Justices may declare the 
            Justice Vacant.  If all three Justices fail to post on 
            any active Judicial matter for 3 days, the President may 
            declare all Judicial offices Vacant, and immediately 
            appoint a new Chief Justice.
        [b]d.  If in the event that the presidential office is vacant, 
            The chief justice shall nominate a citizen for president. 
            The candidate that the chief justice nominates shall be 
            approved by both the public defender and the judge advocate.[/b]
 
I second the proposed poll.
 
Wait - just thought of something to add.

Turnchats - Who would run the turnchats during the vacancy? Would it go to the next in Chain of Command? Would the next in Chain of Command write the turnchat thread?
 
Chieftess said:
Wait - just thought of something to add.

Turnchats - Who would run the turnchats during the vacancy? Would it go to the next in Chain of Command? Would the next in Chain of Command write the turnchat thread?
I sense that this would be answered in a JR. Though my feeling is that the president is traditionaly responsible for scedualing turnchats. ATM we dont have a set order for a Chain of Command. Since no one ran for president, we dont have a vice president. Unofficaly, the Domestic Affairs would be the subsitute untill a president is confurmed. But again Domestic too is empty and External affairs would be the subsitute. I say unofficaly because we dont have a set organization of the CoC.
 
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