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Constitutional Proposal : Advanced Traditional Government

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Demo Game V: Citizens' started by Provolution, Feb 4, 2005.

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  1. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Constitutional Proposal : Advanced Traditional Government

    Initially, this Constitution Proposal is a version accomodating the inputs of Ashburnham, Strider, Civgeneral and several others, seeking to maintain the integrity of the present traditional system, reducing the number of positions for election, adding a very basic autonomy model for the governors, adding room for high strategy planning accountable by specialty and giving decision-making scope for the implementing directors on a mid-strategy planning. The Constitution is flexible, as it makes the prime minister in charge for filling in missing instructions from Directors, whereas the President will lead the Ministers and assure that all strategic guidelines are being drafted, discussed and polled, then summarized for the reference of the Directors. This proposal is also more kind to the Governors, as these are given a set of powers allowing them to vote in a Governors Assembly over key issues, and to be the main source of minister replacements, as these Governors and Deputies have already proven commitment. This will eliminate minister deputies, and transfer the back-up to the Governors (lasting replacement) and the Prime Minister (temporary back up). Having deputies for a one night show is not necessarily a good thing compared to an Intern for a one night....

    1.
    For the further develop this thread, and be aware that this is a proposal in the works and not a finished proposal, please keep it civic, avoid threadjacks, flames, insults, digressions, trolls and other issues well covered by the forum rules. I have seen promising threads die out due to all this, and I will avoid that situation to occur by preempting this with a clear signal.

    2.
    I will ask the moderators to ensure that the intention of the thread is followed
    to the letter, so that we can keep this constructive as we can.

    3.
    Additionally, this means, comment on the particular points, not anything else, as this is a proposal in the works on its own merits. This is not a discussion on strategy-tactic vs traditional, or a discussion on who knows what from which Demogame, but a discussion on how to organize the issues and mechanisms.

     
  2. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall Night Elven Ghost Agent

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    This is the consituton that I would accept.

    I would add onto the part about the Mayors that they should be appointed by the Governor of the respected province :).
     
  3. blackheart

    blackheart unenlightened

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    Either appointed or elected (as Rik Meleet tried to have it, I believe).
     
  4. Strider

    Strider In Retrospect

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    I don't really like how you re-did the Executive Branch, but this proposal is otherwise decent. Of course, it's no hidden fact that I am not a big fan of seperating/merging departments.

    On other things:

    Article B. and Article T. is the same thing.
    Article L. and Article S. is also the same thing.
     
  5. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    Articles T and S can just be removed.
     
  6. mhcarver

    mhcarver Newspaper Mogul

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    Code:
    Section 1. Judicial Procedures
    The elected Judiciary shall create there procedures [B]once elect it[/B], to be located in the first post of the Judiciary thread. Any change following the Judiciary's acceptance of these procedures will require the Will of the Citizenry.
    I know this is small but will someone please change this to elected and instead of mandating the procedures be in the first post could we use striders language which went something like must be easy to access at all times? this is just my preference since I would like the first post to consist mostly of your standard welcome and listing quorom
     
  7. Strider

    Strider In Retrospect

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    That was why I was pointing them out, for he can remove them.
     
  8. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    strider and mhcarver, the changes are done, quiet and easily, no drama. :D
     
  9. Ashburnham

    Ashburnham King

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    I was wondering what others thought of the following part of Provo's proposal:

    Code:
    Section 2.1 The Governors Assembly
    The Governors Assembly is tasked to elect a Chairman of the Governors Assembly,
    and must thus leave his Governorship to his Deputy. The Governors
    Assembly has the mandate to set the National Trade Tax, Veto Drafts, Amend
    Provincial Borders, Nominate one wonder city per Province, Name Trans-Provincial
    and Extra-Provincial Landmarks and finally approve all wonder builds sanctioned 
    by the people. The Governors Assembly is formed as soon as the nation reaches three provinces.
    
    Section 2.2. The Chairman of the Governors Assembly
    The Chairman of the Governors Assembly is tasked to lead the Governors Assembly, 
    leading discussions and setting up polls within the Governors Assembly Mandate. 
    The Chairman also nominates the candidates eligible for replacing ministers and directors 
    leaving their office mid term, from the Governors and Deputies in the Governors Assembly.
    I'm not exactly sure we want to muddle the duties of the Governors by creating a mini-House especially for them. To me, it seems like the duties the Assembly would be tasked with (deciding on Drafts, naming landmarks, etc.) could simply be handled by the citizens in general.

    Throughout the Demogames, the Governor positions have been the most straightforward, most Civ-like positions in the government. And they have consistantly attracted people to those positions. I don't think we need to include unnecessary bureaucracy into the Governor offices, and certainly not when it can be handled by the people in general.

    However, these are only my opinions, I would be interested in what other people had to say about Sections 2.1 and 2.2.
     
  10. mhcarver

    mhcarver Newspaper Mogul

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    Ash, I am somewhat against the above article because I remember hearing it was innefective in the past. However as DGV was my first DG I could be wrong but the people voted against making another Senate, which I think(sorry if i'm wrong) was the same thing as the above proposal

    -mhcarver
     
  11. ravensfire

    ravensfire Member of the Opposition

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    In DGIV, we tried assigning the slider and budget to the Governors through the Senate.

    It failed. Miserably. Look through the archives, and you'll see lack of posting, discussion and general apathy.

    Mid-game, we created the Ministry of Finance and Labor which controlled the slider, the budget and workers. This worked a great deal better.

    So yes, we tried it. In general, and even with a great deal of prodding and effort, it failed. May it stay in DG IV, never to return again.

    -- Ravensfire
     
  12. YNCS

    YNCS Ex-bubblehead

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    I believe the National Trade Tax should be set by the Finance Minister and approved by WOTP.
     
  13. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    Fair enough, I will add in Mhcarvers, Ravensfire and YNCS amendments and see where it goes. I will delete the Governors Assembly, transfer the National Trade Tax to the Finance Minister as approved by the people. All quiet and smooth, no drama.
     
  14. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    To make things easy decision-wise, would you be able to post a concise list of the differences between your proposal and DG5? I'd like to use DG5 as the comparison vehicle and post the differences between it and the various alternatives, and want the proponents to do their own comparisons if possible.
     
  15. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

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    I would cross reference with the DG5 consitution and make a list of pros and cons, since I am more an analyst than a sales person.
     
  16. DaveShack

    DaveShack Inventor Retired Moderator

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    Just something which lists the differences in as few words as possible, please. ;)
     
  17. Chieftess

    Chieftess Moderator Retired Moderator

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    This discussion has a poll. It is also summed up in other government structure threads. This thread will now close.
     
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