Yeah there we go. With just 45% turnout and opinion polls putting the support for independence at a smaller majority than 80%, we can infer a lot of "no" in the people who stayed away from the not-referendum consultation.
Consultation on Catalan independence
- Thread starter gangleri2001
- Start date
Democracy can never work in the United States because the people still lack a democratic tradition.
Unrelated to the Catalan movement, but your comment reminded me of this article giving Scotland the Middle East treatment.
gangleri2001
Garbage day!!!
You are right, but you also have to keep in account that the census used in this consultation was bigger than the census used in normal elections because it included 16 & 17 yo + immigrants who still don't have right to vote in normal elections, so if this had been a binding referendum the turnout had been +50%. I don't know the exact difference though.
Besides, in order to make it a participative process (i.e. neither a consultation nor a referendum according to Spanish law) special restrictions on the DNI are set, a thing that a lot of people didn't know. Volunteers have told me that they found in their respective locals they had 2%, 4% or even 10% of the people who went there couldn't vote because of these special restrictions. These are thousands of people that wanted to vote but found out that they couldn't.
So under normal cirsumstances the turnout would have most likely been between 50% and 60% (closer to 50% than to 60% though). But as you know, the Spanish government made sure that these weren't normal circumstances.
Just for comparision, in the referendum of 2006 (Catalonia's latest binding referendum) the new Statute of autonomy was approved by 1,899,897 people and the total turnout was 2,594,167. On Sunday we had very similar numbers (independence approved by 1,861,753 people out of 2,305,290) and all this in a non-binding participative process (something that ranks even lower than a non-binding consultation).
Knowing all these special circumstances, now you are ready to make your own inquiries.
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Well, if we care enough to make some numbers, it was not a 45% turnout at all but lower. It would be about the 43% taking the last official electoral census, which included older than 18 and spaniards only. So 5.4 millions. However in this "consultation" older than 16 and foreigners! were allowed to vote which adds a total of 6.2 millions potential voters. Consequently turnout was not the famous "45%" claimed for some here but closer to 37%. In fact nobody knows exactly what the turnout was as there was not any electoral census.
Also 1.8 millions is about the total number of votes obtained by all independentist parties in the last official elections. Nothing to be amazed of however when a consultation is organized by and for a side where only one side votes. It is like believe toothpaste ads: Buy X! 9 out of 10 dentists recommend it!
That's what I was going for.
We need to mock so-called Western countries like this more often.
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
Well, if we care enough to make some numbers, it was not a 45% turnout at all but lower. It would be about the 43% taking the last official electoral census, which included older than 18 and spaniards only. So 5.4 millions. However in this "consultation" older than 16 and foreigners! were allowed to vote which adds a total of 6.2 millions potential voters. Consequently turnout was not the famous "45%" claimed for some here but closer to 37%. In fact nobody knows exactly what the turnout was as there was not any electoral census.
Also 1.8 millions is about the total number of votes obtained by all independentist parties in the last official elections. Nothing to be amazed of however when a consultation is organized by and for a side where only one side votes. It is like believe toothpaste ads: Buy X! 9 out of 10 dentists recommend it!
Evreryone could vote. It is assumed that the remaining 63% are thus uninterested in the matter, so it is clear that the politically conscious people in Catalonia are this 37% and they are overwhelmingly in favour of independence. Why bother conjecturing what the rest of the people think if they didn't even make an effort to make their opinion on the matter known?
I don't think you can claim this, because achieving a high turnout would have itself been a win in terms of claiming legitimacy for the yes side. The no voters had a much stronger reason to stay home.
gangleri2001
Garbage day!!!
It was a non-binding participative process with some additional restrictions for voting lots of people didn't even know about, so what makes you think that a part of the yes votes didn't stay at home too or that a lot of people who wanted to vote yes found out that they couldn't?
What matters here is that we have acheived a turnout and a result comparable to that of the referendum of 2006.
Comparison with opinion polls that have yes at 45 or 55 per cent. Still the plurality or maybe majority, but not 80%.
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Maybe they think voting on such a farse is the same as to give it legitimacy? Would you vote in an unbinding illegal consultation organized by the spanish falange asking for abrogating constitutionalism and returning to dictatorship?
gangleri2001
Garbage day!!!
The last referendum had a turnout of 48%
If you don't want to see a headline that reads "80% of Spaniards reject democracy", then yeah.
People notice more the results than the turnout figures.
Josu
Emperor
There is a more-than-slight difference between a Goverment (such as Catalan Goverment) and a party (such as Falange).
On the other hand there is one expresion in your text I would like to point: unbinding illegal consultation. Yeah, unbinding consultations are SO DANGEROUS that we have to declare them illegal.
When my girlfriend asks me what do I want for dinner she should be judged and jailed, such a treason against the fatherland!!
Thorgalaeg
Deity
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