Contrast photo Journal tradition vs Progress

[stii]

Up to T97

Spoiler image :

Songhai decided he didn't like my face because he is a warmongering psychopath. This wasn't really a surprised and I had the two nearby CS as my allies so it wasn't very scary. Was less a war and more of scuffle. Progress was start to seem a bit more powerful at this point. I'm about to get the 5th policy and get culture for every building and just make everything,but first a few more units just in case.

Working on locking down all the CS I can as there is just so much gold floating around and they are really high value. Sadly no culture CS but there are four fairly close.

 

[randomnub]

Well don't mind me, I have some hours free before getting some work done... I gave progress a try:

Spoiler :

I moved next to oasis as it gives fresh water while still letting me build well, went mining first, stele halt at half completition, put some turns into a shrine while waiting for enough gold to invest into the stele and gaining a few turns of faith/cultue that way, pyramids then finished shrine and bought a slinger because I was besieged by barbarians already. I settle Harar on a defensive position before France claims it, tbh I don't care about rushing the monopoly I'm more worried about the lack of hammers. In order to make up for that I pick Organization as my first policy and Liberty second; Tutelary gods as pantheon, then I have the choice between calendar and bronze working for my free tech and I go for the latter, to spot Iron before I settle more cities: again I don't care too much about rushing workers and plantations given all the barbarians.

Spoiler :

Tobacco monopoly connected at t58, while my tech path is kind of a mess: that starting position is asking for Petra, and I am getting a trade route quest by a nearby mercantile that provides jewels, asked by another cultural CS. So I went for the upper side of the tech tree, seeing as there're no other civs who could be going for it among the 6 I met... then obviously I met Portugal and 1 turn later Maria completes the wonder. Oh well. I switch to the bottom side and then I have the opportunity of ally two CS who are at war with each other, if only I could spot the Ottomans land... but my pathfinder is out of luck on some far away peninsula with barbarians everywhere hence I go for writing and embassies. There's no way I can get either Drama or Metal Casting as my religion free tech this way though.

Spoiler :

Turn 79 religion. Assyria wanted to befriend me, and I accepted because it was also a friend of Songhai that I wish leaves me alone. It doesn't help 1 turn later Ashur asked me to go war against the Maya, which I was hoping would be an ally against France hence I refuse. Napoleon then declares on me, because ''somebody'' paid him. And Askia went hostile anyway because...reasons. I'm doing okay but can't help feeling I've been a bit unlucky so far. Time to settle some more land while the gold is flowing nicely enough to let me rush buy an army. Free religion tech will be Iron Working and I'm 1 turn to complete Masonry, might be enough to go on the offensive against the French.

 

[CrazyG]

Turn 110:

Spoiler Enhance! :

Got my second Great Prophet on turn 110 (I built two missionaries).
Also settled another city (which hasn't paid off yet), had to fight both Songhai and France. Songhai gave peace last turn so I'm frantically moving units south towards France.

I built the Parthenon and went to Education, before shifting to the bottom of the tree to get more weapons. 2 turns from building Sankore, but this was overall a mistake. It would have been a lot easier to use my science to unlock stronger units and do damage to France but I was trying to make this a more tradition-esque game. I got my 6th social policy turn 90-something and I'm 1 turn from discovering steel.

Its worth noting that a bug with wonders/national wonders is hurting tradition a lot here. The 1 science from councils, herbalists and the 10% capital isn't collecting. I also rushed out 3 amphitheaters before realizing they don't get the +1/+1 from Parthenon.

 

[randomnub]

Its worth noting that a bug with wonders/national wonders is hurting tradition a lot here. The 1 science from councils, herbalists and the 10% capital isn't collecting. I also rushed out 3 amphitheaters before realizing they don't get the +1/+1 from Parthenon.



I think it's only a GUI issue, I was confused by the missing yields but they're there, try calculate the city output... anyway it's a bad change

 

[stii]

Up to T109

Spoiler image :

I focused on spreading my religion and making orders over enhancing. War is still going fine certainly no danger but no really point in pressing in more. Running multiple internal trade routes to increase productions and hopefully really churn out buildings now. While science/culture are lower I son't exactly need either right now as I have plenty ot build. France is rather weak so they will be my target at some point. But still need lots of infrastructure before a serious war. Starting to collect lots of CS allies. Ai doesn't seem to be contesting that much.

 

[stii]

Up to to t137

Spoiler image :

France seemed really weak so I prebuild a bunch of comp bows and upgraded them to xbows. Thier capital is ideally situated for an attack and they are small enough that I should be able to make them my vassal by jsut taking one city. Going to take honour just before I attack them.

My numbers for culture/science are finally reasonable and I am building whatever the CS quest tells me to.

Enhanced with zealotry and +1 production for pop. Which might be overkill but I figured I could make more buildings and get more culture that way. zealotry will mean I don't have to make units and can just focus on buildings. Plus if Songhai declares on me in the middle of the war with France I can rush out units.

Happyiness seems to be permanently capped at city size everywhere no matter what I build but it is still manageable.

 

[Stalker0]

I played till turn 35. Here's my thoughts:

Spoiler Image :

Man do I wish could I pick authority on this start. Two close neighbors and a ton of barbarians spawned all around me.

Anyways with tradition this start is below average in my view. Faith monopoly is normally great but its much less important as Ethiopia.
The land is high in gold but really low on production. I settle tobacco near Oasis for a high gold and high food start.

Build order was monument-well (invested) - pyramids - settler. Plan is to put down two cities really quickly to get my monopoly, possibly
settling directly on tobacco. Stole a worker from Zurich and harrassed a lot of city states in general.

Here's the game on turn of pantheon. There's no obvious top choice on this land.
I also get my 2nd social policy this turn and have a chance to pick my research (in the image I think trade is queued but I could swap). There will also be a free tech available which I planned on using for calendar.

View attachment 641468

Man pyramids after two buildings and with that low prod start, that seems ballsy!

 

[Stalker0]

This gives really weird borders with France, but I'll have a tech lead over him

This is something that nevers happens in my plays, so I wanted to check. I never ever ever have a tech lead over the AI in the early game on Immortal, let alone Deity. Now you get a free tech, but even then I'm usually multiple techs behind the AI. And looking at the map its not like I see some science terrain or anything, how do you manage to actually get a tech lead?

 

[CrazyG]

Man pyramids after two buildings and with that low prod start, that seems ballsy!

The well was invested (so it costs 32 hammers) and gives 3.2 production per turn at 6 population. So after 10 turns, its broken even, and Pyramids actually finish 1 turn earlier as a result. EDIT: checked the save you finish the same turn either way. With a different start it could be faster though, and you pick up food and production towards the next item.

This is something that nevers happens in my plays, so I wanted to check. I never ever ever have a tech lead over the AI in the early game on Immortal, let alone Deity. Now you get a free tech, but even then I'm usually multiple techs behind the AI. And looking at the map its not like I see some science terrain or anything, how do you manage to actually get a tech lead?

As Ethiopia I had 3 free techs before the first war ended (pantheon, start a religion, complete tradition). Along with getting writing and libraries early, and God of All Creation giving 4 science, I have a tech lead over France, but not the tech leaders (Maya and Portugal). That free tech could go towards unlocking steel and then crossbows much earlier than normal.

 

[stii]

Up to T160

Spoiler image :

Songhai
Roll France pretty much effortlessly. AI just seems to have far less units than before in earlier patches. France was pretty weak in general but I just full smashed them. I did get them to declare on someone else first but still this was rather easy. Songhai should be a bit harder so I'm going to wait for Musketmen to attack them. Plenty of tiem to get the important buildings and fill out my force limit. They even warned me for having troop on their border early on so I have to wait for that to tick down anyway.

On the other side of the world there have been multiple decisive wars. Maya got vassalized by Songhai and Assyrian vassalized by Ottomans. Which is a lot more aggressive than normal.

 

[stii]

Up to T178

Spoiler image :

How as it turns out the don't declare war thing doesn't work both ways and Songhai "sneak" attacks me! Luckily I'm pretty close to being ready anyway and I'm hardly going to die in the 4-5 turns I have to wait for Muskets.

 

[randomnub]

I'm playing slower than both of you but I'm not giving up yet Saving at around your same turns, I think I catched up nicely.

T109 Medieval

Spoiler :

I founded with Holy Law and Veneration, the plan is to catch up in tech after the early game hiccup and leverage the faith output into culture, the department I'm lacking. I'm a fan of Council of Elders too when catching up in military science is badly needed but it scales really poorly, best used when the cities I convert are going to be razed by myself or converted back by some higher faith output AI. Being Ethiopia I figured my early religion could become dominant and late game yields quite important. Spreading only up to the point I'm able to reform, cities build forges-arenas-barracks soon (right after stele and well/mill) and I work the tutelary gods buffed up engineers before focusing on other projects. France asks for a white peace after his deal with my jealous unknown enemy ends and I settle right in Napoleon's face, planning some citadel shenigan. He sees it coming and declares on me again. No worries, playing defensively for a bit with medics and fortified guys while unlocking higher tier units. I manage to snatch the colossus on my way to beelining medieval through the bottom part of the tree, also Terracotta was available and I could't see it being built in any of the AI capitals so I thought why not, that gives me some more culture and with all that jungle I could use even quicker workers..

T114 Reform and finished Progress, T117 Enhance

Spoiler :

Only few turns have passed and I upgraded from archers to crossbowmen I research currency, unlock Physics with my Progress finisher free tech, Reform gives me Machinery and Enhancing I'll enter Renaissance through Chemistry. While the tech itself is quite useless for now, and my missionaries and buildings are going to cost 50% more faith (but give me 50% more culture and gold when bougth thanks to veneration), I gain a lot more culture from completing buildings and enemy kills with Terracotta. I send the spy levelling up in Warsaw while I also pay Askia for declaring over Casimir and not having to look at my northern borders, where I settled Gondar to avoid having Songhai settlers at my capital doors but don't plan to expand more. Instead I expand in the crappy desert down there to block Napoleon and have some more coastal cities for when a navy will be needed.
My religion picks and some musings: Synagogues as my building of choice, even more production and science, wltk are quite easy to trigger; Mosques were up for grabbing for better short term science but I lack good GA sources and most of my culture will come from instant yields, my cities are not going to grow fast anytime soon so per-follower beliefs are out, I could have been tempted by cooperation (+15 each yield would have been great this early, worth switch to food tiles) but Portugal took it. Other founders are Songhai, Poland, and Ottomans. This means I could spread to France and Maya quite easily while their missionaries are probably fighting each other converting Assyria. I don't want having to deal with nearby Orders nor plan to go total war after France, some border friction with Songhai and maybe a late sea invasion against any runaway to seal the game. For now I plan to be that runaway.
I was torn between Zealotry, Symbolism, Prophecy and Mendicancy and while all have their pros in this situation in the end I went with the easy choice of Mendicancy mostly for the culture I'm sorely lacking. This means I need a faith sink to power up veneration, that'll be missionaries for now but I reform with to the Glory of God for when I'll have enough followers to max Holy Law. Zealotry could have helped earlier but I prefer to buy units with gold now, despite coming out with half xp. Timing is key. Also, I don't plan to go rationalism and more scientists and engineers will be welcome, I already converted 16 cities and early TtGoG yields will be alright, and I can't help feeling other faith sinks such as Divine Teachings or Faith of the Masses lost some oomph with the new happiness system, base yields aren't that great when I'm sitting at 50% and capped-by-pop unhappiness whole time.

T137

Spoiler :

A golden Age dawns, Forbidden Palace on the way to completition (many other wonders are available but none would be great right now, also my capital needs to build other stuff while locking flood plains farms in order to grow strong), every city rushed a chancery for +8/10 production and Paris is falling. Good. The siege was long and I had to sacrifice some melee units, but mostly pikes gifted by two friendly militaristic CSs and knights coming out from stable-powered expos. There's some good land on the other side of the map and I'll try to settle it before Portugal after I unlock caravels and astronomy, but if I can't get there it won't be a big issue. I don't plan to vassalize France, it's very weak but has good land and safe borders and I even have a juicy quest to conquer Orleans, like 287 influence and 33 xp I'm simply a sucker for that sort of things. Hence Napo will be assimilated.
Now for my second policy tree... Fealty would be the obvious choice for a progress game with a faith civ, with strong yields on a per city basis. Anyway, I don't need the artists with TtGoG, Divine Right is next to useless and the new happiness system isn't helping it, I am already done building armories way before having unlocked Nobility and I don't care about faith discounts with a tobacco monopoly and veneration. Nor even plan to fight AI pressure not having any per follower belief, just the founder but it'll be capped soon. Looking at the map instead I decide I could lose this game if I don't focus on the congress, with Maya and more importantly Portugal (who has many nearby CSs and room to expand in peace) going statecraft. There's also the corporations mini game... and oh boy how bad my options look like. Tobacco unlocks Trader Sid's, Gold from nearby France land unlocks Civilized Jeweler's and both look terrible for this game. Gold is overkill and GPPs are better in a tall empire anyway. Instead by making resources from city states count toward monopolies I spot silk and furs for Giorgio's culture, or porcellain for Firaxite's science, way better in my book.
Another option would have been mix policies, something along the lines of 2 into authority for dominance, 1 in fealty, 3 in statecraft up to shadow network... but I want more delegates and I'm leaving that door open for the third policy pick: I plan to go Industry but if late game becomes full war then 2 into authority, 2 into imperialism, 2 into rationalism could be and option...we'll see.

Thoughts:

Spoiler :

I don't have universities up, heck not even libraries in most cities but I'm #1 in literacy. In the next 4-5 turns I'll invest and build Oxford in capital and unlock Shadow Network, while I'm sitting on 5 CS allies, 6 friends and a bunch of easy quests to complete so even if I didn't buy/build a single emissary due to bad CS proximity I'm doing fine. I'm building all those 1-turn cheap buildings I delayed (I don't have a single market, and very few lodge/granary) for 30 culture each and the next turn I'll catch up with Suleiman as cultural leader as well. He has 700ish score points vs my 900ish so I'm not too worried of him. Instead, Songhai settled at my doorstep. I was temped to buy a couple tiles SE of Addis Ababa in order to lower that area appeal but it's such a crap spot (0 luxuries, 0 strategics, 1 maize only...) that I was hoping it was getting ignored. I DoFs and DPs Portugal who has been Askia friend for 50 turns, while both fought for the Polish soil (both Krakow and Wroclaw are at 66% health, that dude looks doomed), hoping for a 3some invitation but instead Maria backstabbed and denounced Askia. Whyyyy... There's a huge mountain rance east of Songhai so I guess he is settling in my face for the sake of it, but that also means I'll have to divert my forces north the exact turn he peaces out with Poland, or try to turn him toward the Maya. Next turn I upgrade some caravels and I also have a Great Diplomat exploreing the map, I'll try to settle some unclaimed land.

 

[stii]

Not having Pyramids feels like it put me a long way behind you guys, but the AI isn't really putting up much resistance anyway

 

[CrazyG]

Not having Pyramids feels like it put me a long way behind you guys, but the AI isn't really putting up much resistance anyway

Pyramids are really good with Ethiopia because of the Stele.

If, hypothetically, someone was dumb enough to not settle that one spot before France, I assure the resistance would be notable.

 

[stii]

Pyramids are really good with Ethiopia because of the Stele.

If, hypothetically, someone was dumb enough to not settle that one spot before France, I assure the resistance would be notable.

Well maybe. The AI seems to have far less units in the current patch. France was easy due to them getting rather crippled in my game due to not settling for ages after I blocked their spot. But the other AIs don't have any excuse. I would be very impressed if you can win a peaceful victory before my domination victory. (assuming that is what you are doing of course)

 

[randomnub]

I think I always go pyramids as Ethiopia, because I want to grab a free tier2 tech after the pantheon and that usually is bronze working in order to reveal more faith producing strategics. Stele lessens the burden on having to rush both a monument and a shrine before the pyramids, and in this start I had access to well too. The exception would be a food heavy start with sea resources where I'd aim for fishing.

Btw I am hoping for a peaceful victory, too much late game micro gets annoying and I already aborted two progress games where I was going to dominate way before any other victory conditions were met...

 

[randomnub]

T155, First Congress of Addis Ababa

Spoiler :

I fully converted France, Maya and Assyria. 31 cities and more than 250 citizens are following Noobism. Going to propose world religion now, it should be a safe bet.

Spoiler :

My score is the same of Ottos and Songhai combined, despite not having big secundary cities. They're still busy with infrastructure, while the capital is hitting most CS quests asking for some particular wonder. 3 Engineers (1 from GPPs, 1 from a CS coup quest and 1 from Pisa) provided about 80% production toward renaissance wonders. That flat culture during the golden age is less than half than the culture I get from Expertise, Veneration and TtGoG. Songhai Is busy against Poland and Maya but denounced me, hence I moved some troops north and fortified my border near Gondar. Again France dodged a citadel I planned to put next to Orleans by buying the tile my GG just moved on but I am finally hitting that juicy city with the siege in position after having sacrificed some dispensable knight.

Spoiler :

Now I'll leave to other people the calculations about how much are new cities contributing at this stage, I didn't even research banking yet so no pioneers (and no banks...they usually are a big priority but I want to have a big military lead over Askia asap) but I just want to have fun here. That encampment quest is asking for it. Mt. Kilimangjaro and having a diplomatic hub near all those CSs are worthy benefit as well. Hope Maria doesn't mind too much, but she has no Naus yet.

Edit: Nevermind about Banking, I'm going to leave Metallurgy half resarched and research it before going toward Rifling, with all the gold I'm swimming in it'll probably pay itself off soon.

 

[CrazyG]

Well maybe. The AI seems to have far less units in the current patch. France was easy due to them getting rather crippled in my game due to not settling for ages after I blocked their spot. But the other AIs don't have any excuse. I would be very impressed if you can win a peaceful victory before my domination victory. (assuming that is what you are doing of course)

Actually I'm struggling. Songhai and France are both strong in my game and declared war together. Not sure if my problems are due to tradition or just because I made some poor decisions.

 

[stii]

I think I always go pyramids as Ethiopia, because I want to grab a free tier2 tech after the pantheon and that usually is bronze working in order to reveal more faith producing strategics. Stele lessens the burden on having to rush both a monument and a shrine before the pyramids, and in this start I had access to well too. The exception would be a food heavy start with sea resources where I'd aim for fishing.

Btw I am hoping for a peaceful victory, too much late game micro gets annoying and I already aborted two progress games where I was going to dominate way before any other victory conditions were met...

I'd always want pyramids but I wasn't sure if it was safe as progress under this patch.

 

[stii]

You seem to be rather far ahead of me, not sure how much it was pyramids vs me building up for more late game stuff. My religion doesn't do much other than war.