I'm curious, isn'y a herbalist very weak at this point? only plus two production at adis ababa? with three or four i would built it, but only two for 120 or so hammers? that's a drag of 60 turns to be net production gain. i'm curious, im built forges for one mine and an angineer of course, and stoneworks for production trade routes bur a herbalist for two production?
Contrast photo Journal tradition vs Progress
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I'm curious, isn'y a herbalist very weak at this point? only plus two production at adis ababa? with three or four i would built it, but only two for 120 or so hammers? that's a drag of 60 turns to be net production gain. i'm curious, im built forges for one mine and an angineer of course, and stoneworks for production trade routes bur a herbalist for two production?
I built a herbalist in my capital, but only because I had 3 plantations and it also gives 1 food (and with tradition +1 science). It's a weak building in general.
I'm curious, isn'y a herbalist very weak at this point? only plus two production at adis ababa? with three or four i would built it, but only two for 120 or so hammers? that's a drag of 60 turns to be net production gain. i'm curious, im built forges for one mine and an angineer of course, and stoneworks for production trade routes bur a herbalist for two production?
I went authority. I don't really like any of the 2nd tier polices and authority scales up nicely mid game. Well not really this game because the AI folded so easily. But in general I played a very conservative game
with the Tradition vs Progress discussion I'll just note a few counterpoints to put in Progress' court.
1) The +1 speed for workers and settlers, plus the +25% improvement speed for workers, really adds up. Often that +1 speed is the difference between moving and immediately starting a new improvement, or moving and waiting a turn. Progress workers repair pillaged tiles in 2 turns vs 3, that really adds up if you got beat up in a war. +1 speed for settlers can get a city going 2,3, even 4 turns faster in rough terrain. I generally find that when people aren't doing well in progress, they aren't prioritizing workers early. That free worker plus a few other faster workers, and your infrastructure gets up noticeably faster as compared to Tradition.
2) Progress has a lot more gold in general. With progress I am swimming in gold, whereas my last tradition play I was actually going broke part of the time. this is of course further enhanced by Forbidden Palace. With progress I can invest invest invest much more often than tradition. That is more bank science, and just more hammers gained in general. Its also useful for diplo unit buying, and a few extra CS allies can be a big yield boost.
3) Progress' late game GW faith buys are a major culture comeback in the late game. Now sure culture earlier is better than culture later, but it is quite a bit of culture you pick up on the back nine.
1) The +1 speed for workers and settlers, plus the +25% improvement speed for workers, really adds up. Often that +1 speed is the difference between moving and immediately starting a new improvement, or moving and waiting a turn. Progress workers repair pillaged tiles in 2 turns vs 3, that really adds up if you got beat up in a war. +1 speed for settlers can get a city going 2,3, even 4 turns faster in rough terrain. I generally find that when people aren't doing well in progress, they aren't prioritizing workers early. That free worker plus a few other faster workers, and your infrastructure gets up noticeably faster as compared to Tradition.
2) Progress has a lot more gold in general. With progress I am swimming in gold, whereas my last tradition play I was actually going broke part of the time. this is of course further enhanced by Forbidden Palace. With progress I can invest invest invest much more often than tradition. That is more bank science, and just more hammers gained in general. Its also useful for diplo unit buying, and a few extra CS allies can be a big yield boost.
3) Progress' late game GW faith buys are a major culture comeback in the late game. Now sure culture earlier is better than culture later, but it is quite a bit of culture you pick up on the back nine.
Yes, plus faster trade routes for Protugal and Ottomans and any other trade route bonus-civ like Morocco, Carthage, faith for trade route pantheons, and faster internal trade routes, esp. production, it really adds wuickly up, as caravans and trading ships are quite expensive early. SO it's not only workers. IMO progress should also get settlers and fishing boats faster on that policy but that's debatable.
Bear in mind for this comparison, tradition was missing a lot of science and culture due to bugs and it still comes out well ahead. I don't think the faster built trade units really does that much (maybe 1 turn earlier?). I end up buying them in the late game anyways.
I agree on fishing ships, I've suggested that many times, wish I had remembered to for this round of the congress. Settlers getting the production is currently a proposal under consideration.
Why do you run gold processes instead of science or culture? You won't be able to spend that much anyway, so it's useless.
I'lll bet for unhappiness reduction, but I'ma also curiosu
I knew I was going to win. More science or culture wouldn't have speed it up, any building wouldn't have paid itself, any unit wouldn't have reached the front lines in time... Gold was used to upgrade units in freshly conquered cities or buy some rookies in those island expansions. It was the most useful resource at that point.
Thinking about it, a sub-t200 victory would have been possible, I think vassal capitals count for the dom victory nowadays? it's been some time since the last game I actually bothered play until the victory screen...
Thinking about it, a sub-t200 victory would have been possible, I think vassal capitals count for the dom victory nowadays? it's been some time since the last game I actually bothered play until the victory screen...
Yes