Contrast photo Journal tradition vs Progress


I'm curious, isn'y a herbalist very weak at this point? only plus two production at adis ababa? with three or four i would built it, but only two for 120 or so hammers? that's a drag of 60 turns to be net production gain. i'm curious, im built forges for one mine and an angineer of course, and stoneworks for production trade routes bur a herbalist for two production?
 

I'm curious, isn'y a herbalist very weak at this point? only plus two production at adis ababa? with three or four i would built it, but only two for 120 or so hammers? that's a drag of 60 turns to be net production gain. i'm curious, im built forges for one mine and an angineer of course, and stoneworks for production trade routes bur a herbalist for two production?
I built a herbalist in my capital, but only because I had 3 plantations and it also gives 1 food (and with tradition +1 science). It's a weak building in general.
 
Progress into Fealty? what about you @stii, what did you choose after progress?
Btw, thanks everyone for your posts. This kind of content was always my favorite. Really good for noobs like me. Please do more <3

Edit: I just remembered you went Statecraft
I went authority. I don't really like any of the 2nd tier polices and authority scales up nicely mid game. Well not really this game because the AI folded so easily. But in general I played a very conservative game
 
with the Tradition vs Progress discussion I'll just note a few counterpoints to put in Progress' court.

1) The +1 speed for workers and settlers, plus the +25% improvement speed for workers, really adds up. Often that +1 speed is the difference between moving and immediately starting a new improvement, or moving and waiting a turn. Progress workers repair pillaged tiles in 2 turns vs 3, that really adds up if you got beat up in a war. +1 speed for settlers can get a city going 2,3, even 4 turns faster in rough terrain. I generally find that when people aren't doing well in progress, they aren't prioritizing workers early. That free worker plus a few other faster workers, and your infrastructure gets up noticeably faster as compared to Tradition.

2) Progress has a lot more gold in general. With progress I am swimming in gold, whereas my last tradition play I was actually going broke part of the time. this is of course further enhanced by Forbidden Palace. With progress I can invest invest invest much more often than tradition. That is more bank science, and just more hammers gained in general. Its also useful for diplo unit buying, and a few extra CS allies can be a big yield boost.

3) Progress' late game GW faith buys are a major culture comeback in the late game. Now sure culture earlier is better than culture later, but it is quite a bit of culture you pick up on the back nine.
 
1) The +1 speed for workers and settlers, plus the +25% improvement speed for workers, really adds up. Often that +1 speed is the difference between moving and immediately starting a new improvement, or moving and waiting a turn. Progress workers repair pillaged tiles in 2 turns vs 3, that really adds up if you got beat up in a war. +1 speed for settlers can get a city going 2,3, even 4 turns faster in rough terrain. I generally find that when people aren't doing well in progress, they aren't prioritizing workers early. That free worker plus a few other faster workers, and your infrastructure gets up noticeably faster as compared to Tradition.
Yes, plus faster trade routes for Protugal and Ottomans and any other trade route bonus-civ like Morocco, Carthage, faith for trade route pantheons, and faster internal trade routes, esp. production, it really adds wuickly up, as caravans and trading ships are quite expensive early. SO it's not only workers. IMO progress should also get settlers and fishing boats faster on that policy but that's debatable.
 
Yes, plus faster trade routes for Protugal and Ottomans and any other trade route bonus-civ like Morocco, Carthage, faith for trade route pantheons, and faster internal trade routes, esp. production, it really adds wuickly up, as caravans and trading ships are quite expensive early. SO it's not only workers. IMO progress should also get settlers and fishing boats faster on that policy but that's debatable.
Bear in mind for this comparison, tradition was missing a lot of science and culture due to bugs and it still comes out well ahead. I don't think the faster built trade units really does that much (maybe 1 turn earlier?). I end up buying them in the late game anyways.

I agree on fishing ships, I've suggested that many times, wish I had remembered to for this round of the congress. Settlers getting the production is currently a proposal under consideration.
 
T205 Modern Era, and Victory next turn

Spoiler :

I'll spare you the military stategy details, aka roflstomp. Poland and Maya lasted maybe 5 turns then I sandwiched Portugal and Ottomans from 3 directions keeping my supply cap maxed. After I had a clear idea of the victory timing I simply worked gold processes everywhere, faith bought merchants and admirals while building constabularies and groceries where available to keep my unhappiness menageable. I could have saved quite some turns here if I spammed more units on the Ottos front, his coastal cities were no match but to push into Instanbul I should have rush bought more rookies from the nearby cities. Instead, I had to wait for the western and northern armies to converge. It was quite satisfactory though.
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Why do you run gold processes instead of science or culture? You won't be able to spend that much anyway, so it's useless.
 
I knew I was going to win. More science or culture wouldn't have speed it up, any building wouldn't have paid itself, any unit wouldn't have reached the front lines in time... Gold was used to upgrade units in freshly conquered cities or buy some rookies in those island expansions. It was the most useful resource at that point.

Thinking about it, a sub-t200 victory would have been possible, I think vassal capitals count for the dom victory nowadays? it's been some time since the last game I actually bothered play until the victory screen...
 
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