Contrast Photojournal, Everyone Welcome, again

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
Hello everyone!

This is a contrast photojournal, continuing a trend from before:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/contrast-photojournal-everyone-welcome.660443/

The goal is for a lot of players to download this savegame, play it, and then post your game. It's called a photojournal, but a text summary is fine too. The difficulty is Deity, but please don't feel intimidated, the more participate, the better!

This is our starting position:

portugal start.png


Portugal was picked as an average civ.

Settings are,
Deity difficulty
8 civs, standard size, standard speed
Pangea
No ancient ruins
No events
No tech brokering
Quick combat, quick movement

latest beta. Shuold need nothing bar the base mod

Anyone can participate using the attached savegame.

Please post any information about the game in a spoiler, and don't check spoilers until you played yourself!

The first part of the game is the religion race. Play the game until your first great prophet is born, then report here to the forum. Please share information about your big decisions, such as what social policies you take, your pantheon, and any wonders you built.
If 5 religions are founded before your great prophet, use that turn as a stopping point.


As this is aim at comparing different starts we are going to do it slightly different with no merging saves overall. We will have at least two different game plans of peaceful authority vs progress. People are still welcome to post their saves and play on from other people's saves of course.

(half of this shamelessly stolen from the last one of these)
 

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Stalker0

Baller Magnus
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Dec 31, 2005
Messages
8,850
Hello everyone!

This is a contrast photojournal, continuing a trend from before:

What version is this on? I just tried 5/5 HF1 and its saying I don't have the required files, so I'm guessing its an older version.
 

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026

DeAnno

King
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
646
Oh boy guys.

Spoiler Report :

Right away I'm going to be controversial: the extra resources settling one left compensate for the difficulties in being off coastal, especially because the lake kinda simulates it.

I see Kaliash on turn 1 and it reinforces my idea to start with Mining->Pyramids. I do a Monument->Invested Well->Pyr build order and finish Pyr on turn 29. I also get a free pathfinder from Budapest and get a lot of exploring done, there are a million CSes nearby. Tech order after Mining is trapping pots trading, and wow only one fish and its out of range I'm happy I told the coast to screw itself.

I go Authority with a plan for lots of eventual tributing and needing to do a lot of defensive fighting vs Songhai. Also I am feeling a massive barb wave coming it's going to be nightmarish for Portugal to fight. I'm naked and afraid so I make a warrior right after pyramids and gather my pathfinders back near home.

Porto works pure faith immediately, Pantheon will land on t40. I think hard about its first building and go monument (I eventually invest it), meanwhile Lisbon builds more warriors I need a solid ball. I eventually build a granary to finish a couple turns after trade, once I have 4 warriors and 2 pathfinders.

I kill a camp to the south and tribute Byblos for a decent serving of food and culture, about 55%. Meanwhile Songhai makes a city south of Porto but its pretty chill spacing, building the warriors made them more agreeable I think.

I choose Commerce as my panthron and embark on a 13 turn petra on turn 42. Super secret tech of my move left is that it gave me desert adjacency. I give Porto a big thonk if it should go Shrine or Well next. After some struggles decide for the Shrine. Man I need a worker. Itll have to come after my income goes up from Petra.

Big thonk if I should go Wheel-Calendar or Bronze first. I choose Bronze Songhai is too close for comfort even if he is friendly now.

Stonehenge finally lands on t49. Makes me feel good about my incoming Petra in 5. Third policy also lands on t50 for the Settler. I decide to plant next to the lake and cinnamon. It's at perfect spacing with Tombouctu to prevent a near settle and gives me the rights to the critical mountain passes for defense. I could place closer in but it would be worse economically and politically for only a mild strategic gain.

I get my Petra on t54, so sick. Food route to Porto ASAP. Settle Braga by the lake the same turn. However Songhai turned hostile just now. I will build a caravan and then buy my first worker and then get ready for defense. Armies I already decide to drag back from their camp clearing. Byblos has a worker right there and is pledged to nobody still, I decide to do a one turn war to snatch it in contrast to my usual avoidance of that maneuver.

Diplo clears up a bit soon though, Songhai denounces Brazil for borders before me, and on the same turn Napo asks for Friendship and I say yes. Aksia declares Brazil on t59, wow he's a monster. I'm about to lose access to the coffee monopoly on t61 so I buy two tiles to keep it, I hope it doesn't make Aksia hate me (lol of course it will.) I later also Friend Gandhi.

After Calendar I pursue Sailing for a third trade route. Things getting kind of quiet and I struggle with unhappiness; it's the downside of using the food routes for faith. My found is soon though, scheduled for t88. Potacello is at war with Songhai too and asks for friendship, I say yes because in my experience Songhai can't be pleased only scared by an army.

Then on t69 China of all people declares war out of nowhere! I rush some units south just in case but this appears to be a bribed war only. My sats are done with the really key buildings so I have each build a settler to try to claim the south and west; capital is building spears.

I sell some embassies to France, Siam, and India for a total of 11gpt on turn 70, probably should've done it sooner. Nothing else to sell yet because I was slow with workers and had to deal with unhappiness first, but the coffee will all be in soon.

I make friends with more people, including Brazil. He asks for 4gpt as a gift and I accept mostly out of guilt for how bad the deal AI is right now.

Gandhi founds on 78; I get my fourth policy on 79 with both settlers about to pop. Aksia declares (bribed) on t80 and I move to guard the passes. Hopefully this won't be too bad I have a big army even if it isnt a good one. I abandon the coffee it's too exposed to guard safely right now; I keep an extra on hand because happy is gonna be rough.

Aksia ended up coming for Porto and it was rough, my units were very out of position. He went around to the north and caused a lot of trouble but now my spears are here and fighting him in the streets. A chaotic situation but it seems salvagable to me. Also as luck would have it Porto births the Great Prophet. Certainly a wild jump off point for any who pick this up on t86, 8 turns left of bribed war.


Spoiler Image :




Spoiler TLDR :

Settle by the lake. Authority 4; 4 Cities; 2 natural wonders, 1 settler westbound, t86 GP. Pyramids, Petra, Commerce pantheon. Songhai invading and it's crazytown right now.
 

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stii

Emperor
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Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
It is kind of crazy how we can build almost exactly the same things but a few slight changes can change everything.
 

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
Ok so the basic plan was to go peaceful authority up to muskets. Normally I'd scout about more before deciding something like that but I don't think it changes the opening much.

Spoiler game spoilers :

I moved onto the copper to settle, after checking to see if it was on the coast. If it wasn't it would be a lot closer but here the +1 production from copper is too tempting. I tend to go mining into pyramids so there is even bonus 3-4 gold pretty much right away.

I build monument well (invest) shrine (invest) pyramids. Have to fiddle about a bit delaying the shrine to get enough money but it is all pretty safe. With such a high power start I get t32 pyramids which is easily safe.

There are lots of CS around so I use my warrior & scout to punch enough gold out of them to pay for the double investment. I France early enough that I can sell my copper to them for 3-4gpt as well.

With my free city I forward settle France so they can't really build towards me. It is another great city with +1production and a lake to work. Plus 4! lux within three squares. It is also pretty easy to defend if France decides they don't like us with open hard to move through terrain and being on a hill.

France wants us to not settle so close but the AI will allow one city so I just offer to stop settling near them and they are happy with me and offer a DoF later on. The fact I am close but not too close is perfect as without space for another city it is a lot easier to stay friends.

I get a pantheon and don't see anything exciting at all so I default to god of all creation as it is just generally good, ok at faith but I didn't see anything that would generate enough. I was last to pantheon so it was an instant +4/+4/+4/+4. Lake pantheon would also have been fine if it hadn't already gone.

Obviously a few turns after I do this I discover Kaliash and suddenly maybe I can get a religion. The wonder pantheon would have been pretty awkward on both my two early cities so maybe it would still have been wrong. The fact I didn't discover either wonder before certainly make it easier!

I build a few warrior to tribute with and to clear barbs. I punch some good out but not much else. I didn't do that much tributing because I focused on a trade route and workers as my cities had lots of stuff worth connecting. A bit later the near CS were protected so I focused on barb clearing. I built/bought two warriors and an archer early and another one a bit later. A CS gave me two spears and horses so I built one of them, which was plenty early game to hold off the minimal AI aggression.

I teched mining then straight to trade so I could get a caravan going early, with +4science from it it is a lot more appealing than normal. It also helped my second city grown a lot faster and this made it more practical to build Petra over there for another route.

My third city from 3rd authority policy was over by Kaliash and a food route to that city mean it could work it without not growing at all. 4th city was not much later and was at the mountain choke to make defending easier. Barrington crater seemed worth a 5th city and no one was even that near it. China put down a city vaguely close but still far from touching my borders. There is even space for a 6th city possibly, south east of my bottom city.

AI were generally petty friendly other than Songhai because he just hates everyone. He declared war on Brazil and I think took a city? Shoshone offered me a joint war with Songhai and I agreed to it in ten turns. Which then started right away, I guess he declared on one of us and it drags the other in? Not sure how it works. I figured with my good defensive position I was in no danger. Gives my units something to do and gets me credit with other nations. I id get an iron pillaged but that was the extent of the danger so far and I picked off a few units for free stuff. They do have the biggest army but walls and a comp bow seems to be holding them off fine.

I got a religion 4th on T92 and everything is going pretty well so far. I am fully abusing the AI over deals earning more than all the other players put together. Which is a bit silly, I am running out of people to sell to because of this slightly. It has made buying title and rush building rather easy and I'm going to flip a bunch of CS by buying 200 cost envoys as fast as I can.

End point and some other random points which makes me realise I should saved and screenshotted in a more logical fashion

Spoiler images :


portugal t64.png



t71 portugal.png


portugal t92.png



 

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
Oh boy guys.

Spoiler Report :

Right away I'm going to be controversial: the extra resources settling one left compensate for the difficulties in being off coastal, especially because the lake kinda simulates it.

I see Kaliash on turn 1 and it reinforces my idea to start with Mining->Pyramids. I do a Monument->Invested Well->Pyr build order and finish Pyr on turn 29. I also get a free pathfinder from Budapest and get a lot of exploring done, there are a million CSes nearby. Tech order after Mining is trapping pots trading, and wow only one fish and its out of range I'm happy I told the coast to screw itself.

I go Authority with a plan for lots of eventual tributing and needing to do a lot of defensive fighting vs Songhai. Also I am feeling a massive barb wave coming it's going to be nightmarish for Portugal to fight. I'm naked and afraid so I make a warrior right after pyramids and gather my pathfinders back near home.

Porto works pure faith immediately, Pantheon will land on t40. I think hard about its first building and go monument (I eventually invest it), meanwhile Lisbon builds more warriors I need a solid ball. I eventually build a granary to finish a couple turns after trade, once I have 4 warriors and 2 pathfinders.

I kill a camp to the south and tribute Byblos for a decent serving of food and culture, about 55%. Meanwhile Songhai makes a city south of Porto but its pretty chill spacing, building the warriors made them more agreeable I think.

I choose Commerce as my panthron and embark on a 13 turn petra on turn 42. Super secret tech of my move left is that it gave me desert adjacency. I give Porto a big thonk if it should go Shrine or Well next. After some struggles decide for the Shrine. Man I need a worker. Itll have to come after my income goes up from Petra.

Big thonk if I should go Wheel-Calendar or Bronze first. I choose Bronze Songhai is too close for comfort even if he is friendly now.

Stonehenge finally lands on t49. Makes me feel good about my incoming Petra in 5. Third policy also lands on t50 for the Settler. I decide to plant next to the lake and cinnamon. It's at perfect spacing with Tombouctu to prevent a near settle and gives me the rights to the critical mountain passes for defense. I could place closer in but it would be worse economically and politically for only a mild strategic gain.

I get my Petra on t54, so sick. Food route to Porto ASAP. Settle Braga by the lake the same turn. However Songhai turned hostile just now. I will build a caravan and then buy my first worker and then get ready for defense. Armies I already decide to drag back from their camp clearing. Byblos has a worker right there and is pledged to nobody still, I decide to do a one turn war to snatch it in contrast to my usual avoidance of that maneuver.

Diplo clears up a bit soon though, Songhai denounces Brazil for borders before me, and on the same turn Napo asks for Friendship and I say yes. Aksia declares Brazil on t59, wow he's a monster. I'm about to lose access to the coffee monopoly on t61 so I buy two tiles to keep it, I hope it doesn't make Aksia hate me (lol of course it will.) I later also Friend Gandhi.

After Calendar I pursue Sailing for a third trade route. Things getting kind of quiet and I struggle with unhappiness; it's the downside of using the food routes for faith. My found is soon though, scheduled for t88. Potacello is at war with Songhai too and asks for friendship, I say yes because in my experience Songhai can't be pleased only scared by an army.

Then on t69 China of all people declares war out of nowhere! I rush some units south just in case but this appears to be a bribed war only. My sats are done with the really key buildings so I have each build a settler to try to claim the south and west; capital is building spears.

I sell some embassies to France, Siam, and India for a total of 11gpt on turn 70, probably should've done it sooner. Nothing else to sell yet because I was slow with workers and had to deal with unhappiness first, but the coffee will all be in soon.

I make friends with more people, including Brazil. He asks for 4gpt as a gift and I accept mostly out of guilt for how bad the deal AI is right now.

Gandhi founds on 78; I get my fourth policy on 79 with both settlers about to pop. Aksia declares (bribed) on t80 and I move to guard the passes. Hopefully this won't be too bad I have a big army even if it isnt a good one. I abandon the coffee it's too exposed to guard safely right now; I keep an extra on hand because happy is gonna be rough.

Aksia ended up coming for Porto and it was rough, my units were very out of position. He went around to the north and caused a lot of trouble but now my spears are here and fighting him in the streets. A chaotic situation but it seems salvagable to me. Also as luck would have it Porto births the Great Prophet. Certainly a wild jump off point for any who pick this up on t86, 8 turns left of bribed war.


Spoiler Image :




Spoiler TLDR :

Settle by the lake. Authority 4; 4 Cities; 2 natural wonders, 1 settler westbound, t86 GP. Pyramids, Petra, Commerce pantheon. Songhai invading and it's crazytown right now.

Spoiler game spoilers :


It is kind of insane how different Songhai are in our games despite everything else being pretty similar. I guess in my game they lost a settler to a barb maybe? They just expanded more slowly and so are further back from my stuff.
 

DeAnno

King
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
646
Spoiler :

It is kind of insane how different Songhai are in our games despite everything else being pretty similar. I guess in my game they lost a settler to a barb maybe? They just expanded more slowly and so are further back from my stuff.

Spoiler :

Yeah they are really intense this game. They did war Brazil and Shosone at one point, but I think what happened is the Songhai bribed China into war against me, and then towards the end of the China war China bribed the Songhai into war against me, quite an unfortunate interaction maybe though I have no proof.

I kept a large army of spears most of the run but in hindsight it wasn't enough as spread thin as it was, I needed to forgo the Sailing adventure and get Walls and Rax up faster. I think my run is still salvageable and it is quite powerful (remember with a fort the capital will function basically as full coastal) but it's definitely in a tricky spot right now. 6 turns faster at Religion than your more stable start though.

What do you think of me settling my Southern City Coastal? I assumed that with Nau coming it would be worth it for the extra directionality to use them and spread Feitoria, and if you look at it is actually quite a defensible location from any direction. The main issue with it is if it entices China and Songhai to declare me at once later and simultaneously attack it. I do think my Spices city is maybe a bit less controversially better, it still takes the pass while having better opposition with Byblos. On your save I'd be concerned France is gonna stick his nose up in there maybe.

Of course my Kaliash city is under heavy attack but I feel like it's positioning is pretty good too, I just need to actually seal off the northernmost pass with troops.

EDIT: Looking at your overall incomes they are quite a lot better though, even if some of that is an extra 6 turns.
 

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
Spoiler :

Yeah they are really intense this game. They did war Brazil and Shosone at one point, but I think what happened is the Songhai bribed China into war against me, and then towards the end of the China war China bribed the Songhai into war against me, quite an unfortunate interaction maybe though I have no proof.

I kept a large army of spears most of the run but in hindsight it wasn't enough as spread thin as it was, I needed to forgo the Sailing adventure and get Walls and Rax up faster. I think my run is still salvageable and it is quite powerful (remember with a fort the capital will function basically as full coastal) but it's definitely in a tricky spot right now. 6 turns faster at Religion than your more stable start though.

What do you think of me settling my Southern City Coastal? I assumed that with Nau coming it would be worth it for the extra directionality to use them and spread Feitoria, and if you look at it is actually quite a defensible location from any direction. The main issue with it is if it entices China and Songhai to declare me at once later and simultaneously attack it. I do think my Spices city is maybe a bit less controversially better, it still takes the pass while having better opposition with Byblos. On your save I'd be concerned France is gonna stick his nose up in there maybe.

Of course my Kaliash city is under heavy attack but I feel like it's positioning is pretty good too, I just need to actually seal off the northernmost pass with troops.

EDIT: Looking at your overall incomes they are quite a lot better though, even if some of that is an extra 6 turns.

Spoiler game spoilers :


I think it is a bit too risky to settle so close to China and Songhai, they are just much closer than in my game. I'd have settled on a hill west of Braga. You still get the wonder, you just lose a lux. It also increases the chance China and Songhai will fight each other. Being on the coast doesn't add that much as most of the CS are up top anyway.

Your mountain blocking city might be a bit a better place certain my city being on the iron is a bit awkward. This was party caused by us scouting in opposite directions, I didn't know what was down there when I settled my 3rd city and it would need to be a bit lower otherwise there is a gap there to settle in too.

Image for t86 for a better comparison. Even includes a scuffle with Songhai.

portugal t86.png


 

CrazyG

Deity
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
5,791
Location
Beijing
My game:

Spoiler Overall Strategy :

Decided I was playing progress before the game began.
Settled on the copper hill and researched mining first, sell to France on turn 11. Since I went mining first and I discovered the faith mountain, decided Pyramids would be strong, and I got tribute from some city-states.

Songhai is a horrible neighbor and you basically have to settle towards him. This map would be really tough if I wasn't drowning in AI gold.


Spoiler My Save :

Got the 3rd religion on turn 84.
I have God of the Open Sky because I really wanted culture. No Petra and the prophet didn't appear in the capital.
20210516095417_1.jpg

I have 5 social policies and 15 techs, moving towards Philosophy now. 4 cities with 2 settlers currently walking. Also 136 gold per turn from the AI.
 

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CrazyG

Deity
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Messages
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Location
Beijing
This is really interesting because everyone has totally different city positions.
Spoiler My Thoughts :

I wanted to do a 'typical' progress build order, which didn't include Petra. Moving forward that's a major disadvantage for my save. This has left me ahead in culture but behind in other areas compared to the authority players.

I put my 2nd city towards the faith mountain. Settled it aggressively, it's not that easy to defend but it leaves room for another city on the coast.
My 3rd is that coastal city.
4th is along that southern river. I have a pretty good line against Songhai.
2 more on the way, hoping to put them in the desert and on the river between Coimbra and the City State.

Build Order: Monument Pyramids. Skipped shrine temporarily since getting the pyramids earlier earns more faith.
Spent my early gold on a worker to get farms and plantations.
My expansion cities built monument first and shrine second.

Took God of the Open Sky because I really wanted culture.

Techs:
Mining first, but then I went for Calendar to get the 2:c5science: on coffee plantations.
Trade next since I'm Portugal, then Animal Husbandry which was probably suboptimal since I took open sky. Because I settled on the copper I still don't have a city that can build Petra, but it's still available so who knows.
Then I got Bronze working because Songhai, then construction, because Songhai, then writing for the Scrivener's office. I wanted the faith but the prophet actually happened there first, I'm still about to be in a good position in terms of city-states.

Songhai declared war which really slowed me down but we are at peace now. Without catapults he can't take a walled city with a garrison so you just need to avoid leaving units in the open. I only killed one Mandekalu cavalry and I think one archer, so progress looking better than authority there. He also warred Brazil but is friends with Shoshone. I got friendship from France, India, and Brazil.
 

DeAnno

King
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
646
Spoiler :

Looking at the other games I think settle on copper and then research mining was the best move, despite losing Petra access in the capital because you can sell the copper quick. Also I think the thing that hurt me most was delaying workers to get my trade routes going, because workers make so so much money in the game these days, I'd played so much pauper recently I forgot how busted it could be. Deity really does revolve around selling things to the AI now in a big way.

I think despite Commerce pantheon looking sexy and producing a lot of Faith it persuaded me to make some bad plays. Internal food routes beyond the one Kaliash one really weren't useful but I did them to double up on 2:c5faith:2:c5gold: and that cost me big in :c5culture:/:c5science: yields while giving a lot of food I didn't really need. It was also the main reason I delayed workers longer, trying to get those trade routes going and grinding quick as well as the lightning speed Petra, and even the Sailing adventure when I should've been getting Walls.

Overall I really like the results of the CrazyG Progress save in most respects, though I really don't like the positioning of Porto, it seems extremely exposed to me and would make me feel like I needed to keep a huge powerful army against the Songhai at all times, catapults could basically appear from his fog whenever if you look at my save he has one already rolling up on turn 86. Lacking Petra also blunts the superior economy of Progress over Authority; it's interesting we all approached the Petra question in different ways (weird capital / Desert 2nd city / ignore Petra.)

Despite the Religion delay I think stii's save is just better than mine for Authority despite mine being funny and exciting. Maybe if someone wants to just spar with AI Songhai a bit they could pick it up and play out the war though.
 

CrazyG

Deity
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
5,791
Location
Beijing
Spoiler game spoilers :


I think it is a bit too risky to settle so close to China and Songhai, they are just much closer than in my game. I'd have settled on a hill west of Braga. You still get the wonder, you just lose a lux. It also increases the chance China and Songhai will fight each other. Being on the coast doesn't add that much as most of the CS are up top anyway.

Your mountain blocking city might be a bit a better place certain my city being on the iron is a bit awkward. This was party caused by us scouting in opposite directions, I didn't know what was down there when I settled my 3rd city and it would need to be a bit lower otherwise there is a gap there to settle in too.

Image for t86 for a better comparison. Even includes a scuffle with Songhai.

View attachment 596847


Spoiler Impressive :

I'm very impressed by how much science you have here as authority. I'm guessing you have libraries everywhere and you can leech some from trade routes?
 

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
Spoiler Impressive :

I'm very impressed by how much science you have here as authority. I'm guessing you have libraries everywhere and you can leech some from trade routes?

Spoiler game spoilers :

I don't have any libraries or from TR, bar the 4 from Portugal's ability which isn't included.

The two cities you don't have that I do, one in the desert and the 2nd natural wonder are producing a lot, 9 and 7. I also have 6 from a CS and 4 from my pantheon.

My cities are also quite a bit bigger, but I'm not sure how much that changes science here, capital matters a bit I guess but overall probably size doesn't matter very much.

I do seem to have got a bit more lucky with Songhai than other getting a bigger area. Only thing different is I scout them much later as I went west first. Which could possibly make a difference but probably not.

 

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
What do people think of apostolic now? I guess it is worse but it is a lot of faith pretty quickly with no effort. I am tempted by it with lots of faith purchase buildings/units.

Same for way of the pilgrim too it seems like a fairly good no effect effect. Just spread like you'd do anyway and get +8f+8g everywhere. Will lead to huge cities as long as you can keep them happy. You can even spread it to the AI so they have more money to steal!
 

CrazyG

Deity
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Messages
5,791
Location
Beijing
Spoiler game spoilers :

I don't have any libraries or from TR, bar the 4 from Portugal's ability which isn't included.

The two cities you don't have that I do, one in the desert and the 2nd natural wonder are producing a lot, 9 and 7. I also have 6 from a CS and 4 from my pantheon.

My cities are also quite a bit bigger, but I'm not sure how much that changes science here, capital matters a bit I guess but overall probably size doesn't matter very much.

I do seem to have got a bit more lucky with Songhai than other getting a bigger area. Only thing different is I scout them much later as I went west first. Which could possibly make a difference but probably not.



What do people think of apostolic now? I guess it is worse but it is a lot of faith pretty quickly with no effort. I am tempted by it with lots of faith purchase buildings/units.

Same for way of the pilgrim too it seems like a fairly good no effect effect. Just spread like you'd do anyway and get +8f+8g everywhere. Will lead to huge cities as long as you can keep them happy. You can even spread it to the AI so they have more money to steal!

Spoiler game spoilers :

Oh it's because those cities have Lapis Lazuli. Not bad.

I think they are both extremely strong even if you don't want the tourism from Way of the Pilgrim. However I'm conflicted because I'm already drowning in gold and I don't really need more food. If you take Apostolic you need to consider your holy city location, and also in your game it seems like you really don't need more food.
 

stii

Emperor
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
1,026
Spoiler game spoilers :

Oh it's because those cities have Lapis Lazuli. Not bad.

I think they are both extremely strong even if you don't want the tourism from Way of the Pilgrim. However I'm conflicted because I'm already drowning in gold and I don't really need more food. If you take Apostolic you need to consider your holy city location, and also in your game it seems like you really don't need more food.

Spoiler game spoilers :


Yeah 4x Lapis Lazuli is giving 8 science and soon to be 8 culture, even the flat desert ones are great.

+8 food seems like it would make new cities explode and +8gold helps a bit with unhappiness even, depends how many more cities you want I guess. Frees up TR for other things too. Feel like I'm going to try it because it is new. I can just run 2-3 specialists in every city quickly if nothing else.

It is pretty funny I ran 6 AIs out of money and you still have +50gpt on me. I'm not sure you can really have too much though, invest every building and buy an envoy every three turns. You can even invest wonders if you really have too much. Not sure what is left there in your game, just Parthenon in mine I think.
 
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