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Convince Me Kongo Isn't Top Tier

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by kamex, Jun 22, 2017.

  1. kamex

    kamex Emperor

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    I only play single player, but always try to have a garrison of one ranged unit per city to try and protect against emergencies like this. On the occasion this has happened, it's never been a problem.
     
  2. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    No, that's not the only reason.

    The Leader Ability just doesn't provide any benefit most of the time. It's more of a disadvantage than anything.

    So, you get all the beliefs of a city's majority religion. Meaning, you get the worship belief that allows you to build a worship building in a holy site you won't have. You get some founder beliefs that might let you do things like purchase buildings with faith, but you are deprived the main means to generate faith. Even the follower beliefs, which everybody gets, are often bonuses for having holy site buildings. So, what are you really getting from the leader ability that puts you ahead of the game?

    Not crazy about the UU either. I think it works against the nature of a UU to charge it extra production to build. Better be pretty rad if you're gonna do that.

    The extra GP points are good though. Whether or not you deem Kongo to be "top-tier" is likely based on that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  3. PMac67

    PMac67 Chieftain

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    Some of the Civs are polarizing because they are perhaps weighted to certain types of victory and styles of play... Kongo seems to be a very culture weighted Civ, I've not tried them yet... Mainly because I am still learning Civ 6 and have just concentrated on Science Victories. None of Kongo's bonuses and abilities are useful for my playing style to achieve a Science Victory so they would not be Top Tier for me... But, If and when I try out the culture victory path I daresay Kongo could be one of the best options but having said that I think I will be trying Gorgo first for Culture Victory. I have played against them a few times tho and the AI seems to really enjoy playing them ! Crazy culture amounts ! lolz
     
  4. Abraxis

    Abraxis Emperor

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    I don't play them because their colours are distasteful and their music gives me anxiety, but on paper I would assume they would be equally as excellent for science victory. Growing large cities yields .7 per citizen, which is nothing to sneeze at, their tree houses yields them a free 3.5 science per city. Add on to that all the gold they can bring in to hire great scientists, the fewer districts they need to build while being able to build more districts and having 5 additional pop means every city will be very productive.
     
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  5. gettingfat

    gettingfat Emperor

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    Kongo is definitely a top tier SP civ. At higher level Kongo is always the most advanced AI civ, almost 2 era ahead of the human player for at least one third of the game.

    The only bad thing is, the AI Kongo builds so few military units to the point it is ridiculous. Once I successfully used the quantity vs quality approach, using tons of crossbows, swordmen and a few knights to kill about half a dozen of his cavalry. There is no typos, he countered with cavalry when I still mainly used crossbows, but you know what? He had no more units after just one weak wave of counterattack! I took one of his cities, did a bit of pillaging, but then his city defense was just so high I was going to give up. The most ridiculous thing happened... he sued peace and was willing to give me 2 cities for free (he had 7, I took 1 and got 2 more, so half of his lands were gone even I couldn't find a way to beat his wall D). If the AI just can play like a human beginner, leveraging the advanced technology to build only 4 or 5 more units that were so much more advanced than mine, I would have been completely toasted.

    And for unknown reason, other AI leaders rarely attack Kongo even Kongo has so few military units.
     
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  6. ShakaKhan

    ShakaKhan King

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    You really really don't know what you're missing then. You're right in that Kongo's specialty is cultural victories, but they are pretty decent in domination games and quite exceptional in your victory of choice, space victories. Think about what you need to win a space race victory- a whole lotta beakers to get you through the prerequisite technologies, and a whole lotta production in very centralized locations, maybe one or two cities to build the spaceship parts, that's it. These are two things that Kongo can do exceptionally well. Accumulating a ton of beakers depends on three things: going wider, going taller, and having more campus districts (both for the beaker bonuses and the great scientists.) Kongo may not have any particular bonus towards going wider, but they can go taller than anyone else, mainly because neighborhoods are the critical point where housing is removed as a hurdle towards city population limits, and they don't get them a tech or two earlier, they get them two eras earlier than other civs. Further, the cost of neighborhoods are often a limiting factor at that point for other civs, but since they are a UD for Kongo, they're half priced. As if that wasn't enough, other civs only get more housing from their neighborhoods, whereas Kongo gets additional food to help them get to their new, higher population limit as well as a substantial boost to their gold production. As for getting more campuses, Kongo's pretty good there too, since their population limit is vastly increased in the renaissance era instead of the modern era, they can get the necessary population to unlock the next available district earlier often, and some cities might want this or that district before their campus- in that case, they can get their campus out much earlier. Finally as for centralized production, Kongo has to major advantages. First, because of Nkisi, your capital would have a theater square with an archeological museum (which they'd be able to get reasonably earlier because of the extra population cap that Mbanzas provide) and fill it with three artifacts, plus fill it's five slots in the capital with great works that get the Nkisi bonus, and possibly fill two more slots with Nkisi bonus great works in the bank that the great merchant provides (oh yeah, they get double the great merchant points too.) Altogether, this is 8 or 10 slots filled with things that, in addition to the normal yields they provide, give you an extra 2food, 2HAMMERS, and 4 gold each, for a total of either 16food per turn, 16HAMMERS PER TURN,and 32 gold per turn, or if you get the specialized bank, 20 food per turn, 20 HAMMERS PER TURN, and 40 gold per turn. Second, because of the incredible bonus to gold yields from both Nkisi and Mbanzas, by the late game you buy just about anything that can be bought and build only the things that can't be bought. This lets you skip quite a few build priorities and focus on what would be your next build, because you can simply buy more things instead of building them. All in all, as long as you can stay on top of happiness, Kongo can get you a space victory much earlier and with fewer cities. The only civs that may be better in most situations for a space victory are China, Australia and Sumeria,and maybe the Aztecs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
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