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[RD] Conyers and Franken, Racism?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by BvBPL, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Thats like calling a pedophile priest an advocate for children ;)

    He's better known, especially by the media and hollywood
     
  2. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    He has no mouth and he must scream.
     
  3. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Franks says he did offer a couple staff members 5 million to be surrogates for him and his wife to have kids, and he resigned because of that. That aint exactly sexual harassment, far less offensive than Conyers and Franken.
     
  4. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I'm also sort of confused about why that's such a big deal. I guess it's an improper thing to ask of your employees, people you have power over, but it doesn't seem like it's such a terrible abuse of power as to oblige him to resign.
     
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  5. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    The staffer said he really put the pressure on her.

    If he just asked, that's weird but I don't feel it's that bad. But if he was putting the screws to her, so to speak, that's harrassment.
     
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  6. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    It's also very likely he resigned so quickly to put this behind him for his family's sake. He obviously does not need this job and dealing with infertility is an extremely personal issue. I would not want to drag my wife and kids through this scrutiny in public.
     
  7. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    I heard/read he asked one of them 4 times and she felt pressured and retaliated against with assignments. There was enough for Ryan to tell him to leave as the GOP chases the Democrats in cleaning house. The guy from Texas who paid off his victim with 85k in taxpayer $$$ needs to be going too. Well, I'd be surprised if he runs again much less survives another election.
     
  8. hobbsyoyo

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    That's all scummy af
     
  9. civvver

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    Probably off topic but Monica Conyers is a corrupt politician. She was detroit city council president during kwame kilpatrick's time as mayor, I'm pretty sure she gave the feds info on him to avoid charges herself, and she herself was convicted of bribery later and spent two years in jail. She's been involved in more scandals than just this one too but no other criminal charges I know of.

    I know next to nothing about John conyers but the situation is really weird. He was 63 and she was 27 when they married. Then she shoots up the political ladder in detroit and is involved in a bunch of shady dealings. Maybe it has nothing to do with him at all but sometimes the company you keep says a lot about you.
     
  10. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    if they were married I'm sure her hubby's connections helped
     
  11. BvBPL

    BvBPL Pour Decision Maker

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  12. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Mansplaining Fool

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    Well... he has 1 victim. God knows how many accusers he might have.
     
  13. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    It isn't that difficult to go through life without being accused of groping. Though the previous generations (people in their 50s and older) may be a different case.

    Anyway, how much longer with the current sexism/groping fad last? (i mean with effects like ending the careers of some politicians)
     
  14. BvBPL

    BvBPL Pour Decision Maker

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    That’s a very good question. Time magazine labeled #METOO as person of the year, but will that make a difference? We’re already seeing backlash against the movement with Franken being asked not to resign. Emily Yoffe has a great piece on the backlash.

    Really, the backlash shouldn’t surprise anyone. These things swing like pendulums with one vocal side pushing further than might be ideal only to get a swing back with the whole thing repeated until some happy medium is found.
     
  15. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Whereas if Franken hadn't been pressured into resigning, how many more accusers would have come forward by now?

    I don't think he showed any kind of empathy towards women who felt victimized by him. I also don't think he demonstrated the slightest bit of self-assessment of his behavior. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility both that the women are telling the truth and Al Franken sincerely believes he never did anything wrong beyond the picture of him pretending to grab Leanne Tweeden. Which I guess makes his somewhat defiant posture understandable, but also means he perhaps needs to take better stock of his behavior.
     
  16. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    I'm sure a lot of famous people think they're doing someone a favor by hitting on them.
    If the target accepts it's a date, if they don't it's harassment.
    The more famous/wealthy some people are the more they assume they're desirable.

    If the person says no and it continues THEN it's harassment.
    If it's touchy feely THEN it's harassment.
    If it's over the top crude, THEN it's harassment. (some judgement is required)

    But if it's not one of those, should pickup lines be considered harassment? Some of the many harassment claims sound a tad innocent.
     
  17. Lexicus

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    Depends. And, incidentally, I agree with you that you get one free "unwanted advances" card, and if it's clear that your advances are unwanted, you must stop or they are harassment. But if you are someone's boss, then you don't get even one of those chances. It's too easy to abuse your power in the employment relationship if you make advances toward your subordinates. I think in most of those boss-subordinate cases, even if the advances are wanted, if I were your boss I'd still probably fire you because I'd think you were an idiot if you were messing around with your subordinates.

    Well, this is the sort of question that gets right to the heart of this whole business. Franken may not know what he did was wrong - but if he didn't, that in itself is a problem. Additionally, we have a whole slew of men who sort of throw their hands up and pretend they were too stupid to know that what they were doing was wrong - but their actions, mostly the lengths they go to to discredit accusers or otherwise cover their tracks, demonstrate that they knew perfectly well that what they were doing was wrong. But people make excuses, rationalize their behavior. No one really thinks of himself as the villain, after all.
     
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