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Cookbook B (Boudi) Discussions

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Fippy, Nov 27, 2020.

  1. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Wellll who knows..i could be an evil mapmaker at any point :D
     
  2. Powerfaker

    Powerfaker Warlord

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    I still had a write up to do here on my save. Some stuff for @Tonny to compare.........:)
    I don't think my save is a match for some others. I had a very dominating Isabella, but at least also the luck that Isa and Cathy started a war.

    Spoiler :

    While I'm building an army Cathy DoWs Isa 700BC (T88). Immediately it goes hard against hard. Next turn a GG is born in Russia. Isa however gets the upper hand. A massive army approaches Yaroslawl. Cathy has no answer.
    I wait till this army stands next to the city and DoW Isa myself 425BC (T98) Seville and Santiago are relative easy to take. Barcelona takes most of the cats. I fear I have too little left to take Madrid and ceasefire.
    T109 Isa and Cathy ceasefire too. Yaroslawl switches back to Russia the same turn.

    I feel like I should have had Madrid by now too. Maybe I should have attacked Barcelona before Santiago (or never attack Santiago). I could have built a couple more cats maybe. I still have a sizeable army that can be built back to a solid number of cats. Though Isa dominates with lots of techs while I very much do not. Possibly I face X-bows next or even maces. Everybody is buddhist so Cathy will be less willing to go to war.
     
  3. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    Spoiler T160 :
    I'm using only G3 maces + spies. By not going siege, I don't need to research construction, I can take full advantage of when my stack can move 2 spaces, and I get full benefit of G3's 50% withdrawal. If I were using suicide siege to soften the defenders, these guys would be taking heavily favored battles and 50% withdrawal is negligible if you're 80-99% likely to win outright. The downside of course is that city revolts aren't free. I built 3 dozen gallics and used 2 GMs to promote them to maces. ToA was on the other continent, which is like an 800g difference :cringe:. Main threat is Cathy, but Izzy is closer. She didn't have any good wonders, but holy city is very important not only for the shrine but the espionage discount. Split up my forces about 60/40 with the larger share going to Barcelona and the rest to Seville. I attacked on T131. Took Barcelona first for the espionage discount, though the spy in Seville got revealed anyway. Didn't have many defenders there so I just plowed through. Got a win in on a gallic and after these two city battles I had enough exp for my first GG, which I used for a woody 3 medic 3 hero gallic.

    I then quickly made peace with Izzy and launched a pincer attack into Russia while she was still at war with Izzy. I planned to cut her kingdom in two, claiming the more developed half for myself. Took Yaroslavl first, which was the city linking western and eastern Russia. It's a hill city and is being reinforced out of Tolosa (dun) for some super defensive longbows with both hill and city defenses. The surrounding area is also hilly so Cathy's reinforcements are slowed I took a couple opportunistic fights. The bulk of her army was on the frontlines with Izzy by Cordoba, so I tore through her empire as quickly as possible. Had a spy fail in St. Petersburg, but otherwise the cities have fallen like dominoes. Cathy peaced out with Izzy pretty quickly, but was still too late. Her reinforcements have just now come in range of Yaroslavl as I'm racing to lockdown the last couple of cities and peace out. I didn't use any other GGs, but I set them aside so Qactus can make the withdrawal promo if he wants ;)

    I'm happy that I've neutralized the threats on my continent grabbing 8 cities and counting with maces. Unfortunately the other continent looks like a worst case scenario situation, with Persia going full mansa, peacevassaling to a monster.


    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot2341.JPG I'm down to 13 of the original 36 G3 maces, but those that have survived are now stacking multiple city raider promos.

    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot2342.JPG This stack is on the ivory on the left side of the screen.

    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot2343.JPG

    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot2344.JPG Teching stalls out from financing city revolts. The good news is I can catch up more efficiently through tech stealing with discounts than researching at this point. Big goal is mil science, as grenadiers are the final unit that receives the Dun bonus.
     
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  4. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    A real gem you played there imo, Drew :thumbsup:
    Use of G3 maces, spies and G3 LBs too..we all want to see that.
     
  5. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    My T60 game:
    Spoiler :

    PH south-west felt obvious reaching both corn and deer, but...
    I moved two times, the reasoning was that I wanted the 2F2H tile in first ring to get the worker faster and thus get the 6 yield tile up and running faster.
    In hindsight I'm not really sure the math checks out.
    Lose 5 hammers for not settling on the first PH on T1.
    Gain 1 hammer turn T2, T3, T4, T5 (since the capital can work unimproved 4yield tile). But T6 both possible capitals could reach it... So one hammer poorer. (Finishing with 1H overflow).
    Worker arrives at the same turn for both options though, and then my capitals worker is closer to deer, so then my capital regains that hammer.
    So more or less a draw. Not the huge profit I saw before me when I made the decision! :D

    I liked the floodplains in capital too and moving this way made me be able to go mining->BW first, which is something I have learned is mandatory in Cookbook maps to stay competitive! ;)

    But man I felt dumb for walking away from wet corn, and the landgrabbing it turned out I did didn't alleviate that bad feeling.
    Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG

    I shuffled the queue abit, stalling a warrior and finishing it just before pop2->pop3, making sure to get at least one hammer overflow when starting settler at pop3. (9*11=99).
    Overflow from settler into a worker, then grow abit and finish him with a chop.
    Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG

    T42 Isabella built SH.

    Third and Second city was apparantly connected, no clue how.
    Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG

    Things where lining up very nicely!
    Civ4ScreenShot0014.JPG

    I have granaries in all villages now, finished AH on T60.
    Looking over a few other games I see that most have settled in place, and it's amazing to see how badly behind in tech I am, you guys have sailing and writing and all such stuff. :D
    One workboat moving in each direction too.
    I kind of like my position though.
    I reasoned alot that I should emphazise production above commerce as much as possible, as I have the silvers to rescue me.
    However... since we are in a peninsula I was in no position to grab any more good cities.
    And I did have troubles getting possibly pottery, but for sure AH in reasonable time.
    Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG

    Civ4ScreenShot0022.JPG
     
  6. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @krikav
    Spoiler :
    Interesting to move away from wet corn, but maybe a bit unlucky that there is no way to share the capital tiles now. One thing I would've prioritized though is the 4th city on NW ph that your chosen capital spot freed up. I was *****ing a bit to shakabrade for putting :hammers: to an exploring work boat, so you can guess how I feel about two. You need to build settlers, workers, granaries, monuments (due to CHA), barracks so I don't think you can afford to direct :hammers: to luxuries like scouting. Not sure what valuable you could find even? Finding another AI would be a big deal, but it's likely that you'll A) see it from :espionage: or B) they send a scouting boat.

    edit: granary in Tolosa must be a massive mistake. edit2: unless your plan is not to settle 4th and rather use both corn+sheep to grow.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
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  7. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    @sampsa
    Spoiler :

    I have eyed that PH, but it was not an option since I didn't have AH, and now I don't know. It's a stinking hell hole of a city option too though.
    Perhaps later to help capital develop more cottages.

    I don't think granary in Tolosa is a mistake. Once I have construction that city too will likely drop the silvers like a hot rock.
    Tolosa and Vienne can alternate the corn and help spread out whip anger.

    I think monuments are more in the risk of being wasted hammers though, Besides, SH is in Madrid! :D

    Two workboats for exploring was probably excessive, but thats also hindsight speaking. I think recon is very important. But you do have a very valid point that prio A, B and C should be to get as a impactful construction attack as possible.
     
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  8. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler To T97, tbc... :


    I inch my way toward writing and arrive there at T65. I do a 4-pop whip of the library in capital T66-T68 sometime, can't remember. Then full tilt toward Math.
    T66 Buddhism spreads and I get gems from Isabella.
    T69 Isabella builds Oracle.

    Somewhere here I have stalled research 1-2 turns as I was nearing finish the slow-building of library in Tolosa, finished by a chop.
    I 3-pop whip the library in Vienne to sync with this too. Then full tilt toward construction again.

    T74 Cathy DoWs Bella. (And takes a city T75, Bella later takes this back.)
    T81 Bella makes the Shrine in Barcelona.

    Construction at T83.
    I was going to slam Valencia on T0 of a war, but she got the culture on that tile before I could.
    Civ4ScreenShot0008.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0009.JPG

    I was lured into attacking abit prematurely as I could start the war by taking 3 workers.
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG

    I wanted to suicide my only catapult at the front, but it survived at 5% odds! Karma takes back a spearman at 98.5% odds instead.
    Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot0013.JPG
    Slow progress...
    Civ4ScreenShot0018.JPG

    I take care not to die from a counterattack, moving through forest and hills. Now I bombard to 0% too, while some reinforcements trickle in.
    Civ4ScreenShot0020.JPG
    Patience pays off.
    Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG

    I get the shrine next turn, helpful with +10 gpt.
    Civ4ScreenShot0023.JPG

    Moving on toward Madrid, did 100% research and burned through some of the conquer-gold to get Sailing so I could get trade-routes with Cathy.
    Civ4ScreenShot0025.JPG

     
  9. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T110 :

    T101 I see Cathy starting writing. She is an economic basketcase. I don't mind though!
    Before Madrid, Isabella only wanted to give me some small stuff, but after Madrid, almost every tech comes up on the table.
    Now I get my monuments!
    Civ4ScreenShot0028.JPG
    Bella doesn't have iron, and Cathy is lacking horses (but has gone HBR) >_<
    Civ4ScreenShot0032.JPG
    Only a lighthouse in Santiago so I raze it. I want one city on the wine to help capital out, and a filler can be crammed in NE of the lake later, borrowing the clam.
    Civ4ScreenShot0033.JPG

    Isabella have had monarchy for quite some time, so I'm worried she will get Feudalism, and if that happends I think it's less likely that one gets good techs? They only want to vassal?
    I need techs now though. This was too much to ask, but when I remove IW I do get it. (I trade alfabet for IW with Cathy next turn).
    After that, all cities are set to research and commerce to reach currency quickly.
    Civ4ScreenShot0037.JPG

    Oh, Isabella is the only one with CoL and is willing to trade it! Then It's Mansa musa behind that mask, good to know!
    Civ4ScreenShot0042.JPG

    Ready to strike T111. Cathys techrate isn't that good, and she still lacks math, so there is some time left until nasty Elephants arrive.
    Should have time to cripple her abit.
    Civ4ScreenShot0043.JPG

    I forgot that I got calendar and just started improving the incense this turn. :/
    Civ4ScreenShot0044.JPG

    Civ4ScreenShot0047.JPG
     
  10. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T110 Situation :

    I like the position alot. I feel like I'm absolutely crushing it!
    I was probably helped quite alot (enormeously) by the fact that I could piggyback on Cathys war against Isabella, that tied down Isabellas forces abit.
    One thing I forgot to take screenshot of, but liked alot, was that I put 1 axe and 1 spear in a forested hill just outside of Santiago/ and Spice/Whale-town.
    That threat made her fill those cities up with a huge number of defenders and probably stopped her from making some counterattack.
     
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  11. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    @krikav
    Spoiler :
    Yep, it's in the bag. I kinda lost interest in my game as the rest is a technicality. I guess the difference in our games is that I lost almost the entire army killing longbows, but you can still have fun at Cathy's expense.
     
  12. 5tephen

    5tephen Warlord

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    @krikav
    Spoiler T97 :
    Not sure if it was a typo but why 4 pop whip a library please? I would never do this but trying to improve at the game and understand the logic of better players.
     
  13. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Typo!
     
  14. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Fun seeing so many different settler decisions, i remember editing the start for ~30mins or so :)
     
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  15. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    Sampsa get back in there and finish your game. I need end date data for my comparative thesis on horses, catapults and maces. I don't care how many wonders you nabbed, until I see a result I am branding you a "n00b who can't win". In all seriousness though, AGG AI + Small are unusual and difficult settings at least for me. I'm always looking for intercontinental war tips as I'm mostly a pangaea baby.
     
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  16. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I'll do my best, which likely isn't enough though. If things go well, I see no reason to tech past astro+cuirs. Maybe something like 1300AD finish? Hard to say yet.
     
  17. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Spoiler T160 :

    Filtered through the stack to find units that where only 1 or 2 xp from a promotion.
    Civ4ScreenShot0000.JPG

    Sold Polytheism to Cathy for 90g then declared. I do still whip sparingly up in the north, to get out some Gallic warriors and more catapults, but I also try to grow and recover.
    Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

    Moskow/StPeters fell super easily, her southern city Novogrod was more problematic, I was being harassed by small stacks of axes/swords roaming around and my shock-promoted axes where spread thin. Here I lost my woody3/medic3 because I had not a single shock promoted axe in the stack. :'(
    Civ4ScreenShot0007.JPG

    Peace and more techs.
    Civ4ScreenShot0010.JPG

    Isabella have been stubborn about not teching HBR, so she doesn't have any Elephants, she also doesn't have any source of iron, so here I had to DoW right away to continue to deny her that.
    Civ4ScreenShot0011.JPG

    She got longbows about the second turn after my DoW, so I had to spend eons to bombard this castle hill city with longbows. :)
    Then a pair of suicide catapults and a withdrawn guerilla broke through.
    Civ4ScreenShot0012.JPG

    Machinery is nice.
    After peace and moving units into culture I was at about -40gpt at 0% research, and I was stuck there for a long time.
    Civ4ScreenShot0019.JPG

    12 turns later I finally break even.
    Civ4ScreenShot0020.JPG
    I got stuck on focusing on recovery, so I let my stack stand and gather dust for ages, but just a few turns ago I remembered that I should whipe out Cathy to get away with motherland anger.
    I was planning to rob Isabella of her techs with a city up north close by the capital, but I kind of want her to swap to christianity for that first.
    Civ4ScreenShot0021.JPG




     
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  18. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    Impressive stuff krikav!
     
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  19. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Yes, went really well! But it's almost like cheating when the AIs don't come up with counters.
    Didn't have to bother at all with spears against cathy because she didn't have horses (and was waaay to slow to construction for her elephants).
    And Isabella was insanely stubborn with not teching feudalism.

    But I'm not the one who is late to take shameless advantage of the AIs stupidity. :)
     
  20. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Impressive to own the continent, sure, but the win date won't be that impressive (assuming our continent isn't enough for domination). Unless you can win without cuirs, which might be possible. Can you bulb astro?
     

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