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Cool Pictures 11: If You're Cool And You Know It Clap Your Hands

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Cutlass, Nov 13, 2018.

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  1. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    The purpose of those older camoflages was called dazzle paint, and the purpose of them was that back when submarines fired torpedoes solely on the the visuals through a periscope, the intent was to confuse the shooter enough so that he didn't get an accurate shot. Of course, it was experimental at the time, so no one could be certain what worked, and to what degree.
     
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  2. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Are those experimental things to see how they worked, or are they things that were sent out to war?
     
  3. cardgame

    cardgame Sensual Kitten

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    It's been like 20 months since I played Dirt Rally, but I'd know that road, specifically that stone wall, anywhere. Monaco.

    @trader/warrior @Timsup2nothin the Great White Fleet was a showcase/propaganda paint scheme designed to highlight how awesome and powerful America was by visiting the shores of all kinds of foreign nations and prove via demonstration that we had a strong oceangoing fleet.

    @Samson nearly every "experiment" of the day was also used in war because, well, why not? Better than the status quo.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
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  4. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    In WWI and WWII dazzle paint was fairly common on warships and even cargo ships.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage

     
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  5. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    A friend took this picture of our mountains one evening. Typically, the evening alpen glow is a rosy pink that gives the Sandias their "watermelon" name.This day we got a fabulous gold. The picture was taken from in town on the edge of one of our many arroyos (dry rivers) and you can see the back walls of houses on the other side of it. the picture was taken at about 5,300 feet and the top of the Sandias is 10,678.

    Sandias gold.png
     
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  6. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Why's it look like there's an alien colony up at the top? Or at least moisture evaporators?
     
  7. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Exactly, we live in a desert.

    Spoiler :
    Those are radio, communications and TV towers that sit atop the peak. There is a windy road up the much more gentle other side of the mountain that leads to a visitors center and overlook. If you move your eye to the right of the towers just past the center of the picture, you will discover a white "comma" rock scar coming down from the top. That is the top of a ski slope on the other (east) side of the mountain and has a tram station so you can park in the city foothills of the mountain and ride a tram to the top to ski.

    http://www.sandiapeak.com
     
  8. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    It wasn't meant to camouflage, it was meant to look good.
     
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  9. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    As I understand it, the white and bronze was the peacetime paintjob for the US navy. However, even in wartime the ships would still be painted relatively boldly to make spotting friendly ships easier. The last thing a commander wanted was in the smoke and haze of coal-powered battleships was to mistake a friendly ship for an enemy or to accidentally ram a friendly ship. As optical equipment got better and the shift to dreadnought style "all big gun" battleships the need to disguise the ship began to take precedence over being visible to friendlies.

    Nah, dazzle camo actually worked. It broke up the lines of the ships, added things like false bow waves, and made it tricky to determine speed and direction. The harder it was for the U-boat commander to determine the enemies course and speed, the less accurate the torpedo would be. Several British warships with dazzle camo were painted in a way to make them look like smaller warships. While a U-boat might fire a torpedo on a battleship or large cruiser, they wouldn't waste a torpedo on a destroyer - and it would be too dangerous to risk getting to a gun battle with the deck gun; so the warship would be allowed to slip away. Not all ships were painted in dazzle camo, generally only those that were likely to be at risk of U-boat attack.
    As I understand it, dazzle camo lost popularity as it was hard to maintain, the threat of air attack grew, and submarine optical equipment and torpedoes got better. There was still some use of dazzle camo in WW2, but on a much reduced level - in terms of number of ships painted and the boldness of the patterns. I believe the Tirpitz was given some basic dazzle camo, such as adding false bow waves and breaking up the ship silhouette.

     
  10. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Modern submarine warfare makes paint irrelevant. There is no visual targeting.
     
  11. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Yeah, which is why it isn't used anymore. I could have sworn I mentioned, or at least strongly implied that in my post.
     
  12. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    That was clarification, not correction. You brought us to the later years, when optics got too good to be dazzled. I just carried the ball a little further, to when optics became irrelevant altogether.

    Legendary navy paint story (legendary because despite it being retold through the ages it most likely never happened):

    Spoiler :
    Aircraft carrier, when I heard the story it was the Nimitz, goes on a nine month west-pac cruise. They are finally headed home to San Diego, and are actually only about twenty miles offshore, when the admiral decrees that they have to look better pulling in so they spend three days steaming in slow circles while deck division goes over the side in bosuns chairs to paint the hull with a fresh coat of haze gray. Sensible arguments like "it is way safer to paint while tied up at the pier" are ignored, just like the expected "nine months at sea and we're staying out here to paint?" is ignored. Admirals always win.

    Anyway, the side of an aircraft carrier is freakin huge. It's like this big grey building with no windows towering alongside the pier. And when something is really big its hard to see if you are too close to it. So it wasn't until he was on his way back to the ship the day after they pulled in that the admiral saw the side of his ship, with five story high letters in deck gray clearly visible against the lighter haze gray, saying "F T N." I'm sure you can guess the message.
     
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  13. trader/warrior

    trader/warrior Deity

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    Interesting. I was just going off that short wiki blurb that white was explored along with shades of gray for camouflaging them against the horizon. Though I would assume in those cases they would be completely white as were some of the older ships in my earlier warship pics post (other than the chimneys for some reason?).

    Edit: And yeah, on second thought, having obsessively been looking at pics of old warships it should have been obvious to me that a large amount of them were decorated with no thought to camouflage at all. I don't think black has any nice properties when it comes to that, and a lot of them were black and bronze.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  14. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Heat causes discoloration in white paint.
     
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  15. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    The picture I posted above is a a major US Navy fleet in the Pacific in 1944. So it's pretty heavy use to have 5 Essex class carriers in dazzle.




    Black was because coal smoke turned everything black in short order anyways.
     
  16. trader/warrior

    trader/warrior Deity

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    Well dammit, I guess everything I say here is wrong no matter what.

    That may well be right, but like Broken Erica posted (and I earlier):
    Spoiler :

    I doubt that procession of black hull, then white, then bronze was all about that practicality (I am preparing to be corrected once again here). And this was the British navy, the most advanced at the time.

    Edit: I guess the black hull would be the most difficult part to keep clean and give new layers of paint though.... Ugh.. Learning the complexities of ship paint during the turn of the 19th to 20th century is the brain puzzle of the day I guess. Can we just get a 19th century ship designer in here please?
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  17. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Ah, right. When I was on that page the picture wouldn't load right. All I saw was the sky and horizontal black and white lines.
    Even the picture adopted dazzle camo!

    Paint color was also due to whatever paint held lead the best which was a common anti-fouling element in ship painting.
     
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  18. trader/warrior

    trader/warrior Deity

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    Well, I just found out that on civilian ships, having black on the hull was common to conceal dirt and wear, and white on the superstructure was common to regulate the temperature on residential areas. Interestingly this can be seen on some of the warships where only the populated bridge areas have a white colour and the rest bronze.

    My big wonder is still that bronze colour that seems ubiquitous on the funnels, and often used on larger portions of the upper ship when it comes to warships. Civilian ships used different coloured funnels as a sort of trademarks (like "red funnel" or "blue funnel line"), but warships seem to have stuck for the most part to that one colour. I guess it must have been something like the reasons Ajidica brings up when it comes to durability, heat resistance, or such.

    Or it was just seen as sexy ofc. But at this point I can't think it was just that.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2018
  19. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Were they made of brass or bronze for a time? A lot of brass was used on ships because it would tarnish, but it wouldn't rust.
     
  20. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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