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Cooperation preferable to Allied

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by CaptainPatch, Oct 27, 2015.

  1. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

    Joined:
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    San Rafael, CA, USA
    I hate being stuck in a war. Resources that could be more profitably used building Production, Research, and Culture facilities needs to be spent on creating units for offense and defense. It's the classic Guns versus Butter dilemma. So, how do you keep the other factions from attacking you? The usual answer is to have such a large Military that the others fear what will happen to themselves if they do. Which means of LOT of wastage of resources. Even if you never have to use that big Military, it still costs an arm-and-a-leg to build, and lots of Maintenance thereafter.

    Alternatively, if you can get the diplomatic status up to Cooperating, Cooperating factions will NOT be attacking you. They have to first downgrade the status to Neutral and then Sanctioned before going to war with you. When they DO start downgrading, it signals what they are contemplating. That gives you time to build up Respect to boost the relationship back to Cooperating, or start building military units to build Fear. (Obviously, I prefer going the Respect route.) Similarly, becoming Allied with a faction that have a large Military but is not engaged in any wars (very important) will make warmongers think twice about attacking you. HOWEVER, the way the AIs work, sooner or later every AI faction WILL get into a war -- and drag its Allies into the fracas as well. It doesn't matter who started it, whether it was your Ally or some warmongering that declared war on the Ally. Either way, the Ally's war is now your war.

    So, my bottomline is that it is better to go it alone and just Cooperate with EVERYONE. That leaves you free to spend everything on civic development and next to nothing on Military.
     
  2. Verviedi

    Verviedi Chieftain

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    Slavic once DoWed me from Neutral in an Apollo game.
     
  3. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

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    Personally, I don't know what allied would mean if one of your allies meets the victory condition of affinities or pulls off the contact. Do I win too or only him/her wins?
     
  4. Zenstrive

    Zenstrive Ocean King

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    So there should be a mechanic to prevent A who is allied to B, who is allied to C, to declare war to C. There should be an option for A to ask B whether he wants to continue being allied to A or not before being dragged to three way war.
     
  5. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    San Rafael, CA, USA
    What I think is missing is a Mutual Defense Pact. Like an alliance, but a MDP ally ONLY comes to the aid of an ally if it is the ally that is attacked. If the ally is the one that started the war, then the ally is on his own.
     
  6. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Aug 30, 2013
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    9,395
    What's the difference between having an extra pact and just combining it with allied status? The way I see it it's pretty much the same. Given that you pretty much automatically crawl up to 9/9 with most AIs without investing anything I don't think Allied-Status must be some sort of "reward". It should be a tactical choice.

    The current system is okay in my opinion, the benefits from being allies should just be bigger to actually justify the "danger" and you should be able to decline going to war if your ally declares war on someone (but not if someone declares on him) and get a huge diplo penalty with him and a smaller one with everyone who likes him.
     
  7. Ravenwild

    Ravenwild Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
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    46
    It should just be a defensive pact when allied instead of being dragged into every war they start. After that you should have the option to join in and if you pass you lose respect pushing you back to cooperation. Otherwise, it's WW3 guaranteed.
     
  8. gunnergoz

    gunnergoz Cat Herder

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    I never ally with any AI for the obvious reasons that no trait buff is worth a war you don't need. No question that the diplomacy is improved, but still lacking in some areas. Hopefully this can and will be patched into the game later on.
     

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