1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Copy protection in Civilization V

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by KJ Jansson, Feb 19, 2010.

  1. Savoir10

    Savoir10 Warlord

    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    Sydney
    So I need Impulse to install. How is this any different to steam. Furthermore why would I want to waste my money on EWOM. I'd rather buy Civ at twice the price than to throw it away on that rubbish.
     
  2. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    828
    You're wrong. There will be a lot of great open source games that you will be able to play for free. There are artists on this forum that are A LOT more talented than Firaxis artists. There also are many talented programmers out there. Because believe it or not, some people actually enjoy making games, even if they have to do it for free.
     
  3. grommit5

    grommit5 Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    264
    Location:
    Washington, the state, not DC
    @Savior10

    And what about the people with no internet either because of cost or just plain not available. When you dont live in town your choices can be very limited and very expensive. Universal Internet access is still a long way off
     
  4. arstal

    arstal Say No 2 Net Validations

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    771
    You don't need it to run. Steam you need Steam to run. You're being defeatist in your belief that DRM will be the wave of the future. It can be stopped, just takes some consumer will to say no sale.
     
  5. Balderstrom

    Balderstrom Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2007
    Messages:
    1,141
    Location:
    Halifax, NS, Canada
    Thanks, I had forgotten about Elemental. Might be interesting: considering I prefer Fantasy RPG's and my favorite stages of CIV are pre-gunpowder.
     
  6. Savoir10

    Savoir10 Warlord

    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    Sydney
    Actually have played a lot of open source games. None of them come within a country mile of CIV.

    Not being defeatist, just a realist. I have said no to games with draconian DRM. Bioshock being one of them. Steam activation on install is not one of them in my opinion. In your opinion it is. Lets just agree to disagree.

    I feel for them I really do. I was in their position when Half-life 2 first came out. As no-one in my circle of family and friends was online, I had to wait till I was on the net before I could play it.

    However, if you really want this game, you will find a way. These days, everyone has a relative, friend or neighbour who is online. Adapt and overcome, its what we humans do best.
     
  7. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,097
    A single activation, unlimited install system is an entirely reasonable form of DRM.

    I'm not sure how you can argue against it. Verification of ownership in the simplest, quickest and least intrusive way possible.
     
  8. Mathalamus

    Mathalamus Emperor of Mathalia

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    6,612
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Calgary.
    and steam makes sure that your game is legit by looking at it every time you start it up.
     
  9. deanej

    deanej Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    4,859
    Location:
    New York State
    To those that say DRM is the future: consider, that unless the publishing industries kill off net neutrality (which unfortunately is looking like what's happening right now), the publishing industries will die (as will all forms of big media for that matter), and DRM will die with it. Right now we're in a transitional phase between publishers controlling everything and self-distribution in the Internet.
     
  10. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,097
    Except if you start it in offline mode.

    So not at all then.
     
  11. NovaSilisko

    NovaSilisko Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2010
    Messages:
    69
    Exactly. Not many seem to understand that starting in offline mode doesn't mean you can't play multiplayer/LAN - that only affects Valve's games I believe.
     
  12. Savoir10

    Savoir10 Warlord

    Joined:
    May 1, 2005
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    Sydney
    DRM is not the future. It's here now.

    There are people who will buy a game regardless of what security hoops they have to jump through in order to play it. Look at Bioshock, you have to be online all the time, even to play single player. By comparison Steam's one off activation for Civ5 is okay by me. I understand you probably have some history with steam that's negative. I have not had one second of trouble in the past 2 years of using Steam.
     
  13. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    9,319
    Location:
    Australia
    I'm pretty sure you're wrong here but please correct me if this is not right:

    Mathalamus claims that steam makes sure your game is legit by looking at it every time you start the game.
    First of all, he does not say it contacts Valve so there is no implication that an internet connection is being used.
    Since we know that Steam is required to be running in the background while you play the game, I would have thought that one of its primary purposes is to establish that the game is a legitimate version.

    You are saying that if you run steam in offline mode then it does not check that your game is legit. I find that hard to believe and I think you must have just misinterpreted Mathalamus in the first place. If it is true though, sorry for doubting you, and I add further reasons to why I'm even running Steam in the background. If putting it into offline mode gets around the DRM then how can it be said to be an effective DRM scheme?
     
  14. Schwarzbart

    Schwarzbart Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    525
    I aciential bought one Retail game that required a Inet Acivation but I wont do this ever again. If I buy a Singleplayer game on CD/DVD I dont whant to use Inet at all to be able to play.
    Sure I buy games via Digital Download but only when I dont have to run a program from the Store in the background to play (like Steam) and the game dont need a Inet conection for Singleplayer games (except for updating and first download). Yes this means I never will buy/play some of the popular Games right now except theyr copyprotection will be removed.
     
  15. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    16,368
    The future will be better tomorrow ;)
     
  16. HamTard

    HamTard Warlord

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    295
    Location:
    Canada
    Everyone seems to find Offline Mode baffling, but it really is an OFFLINE MODE. I have used it on my laptop before, with my wifi turned OFF, and my single player games still worked.
     
  17. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,097
    Steam's only method of verifying that a game is legitimate is that it is registered to your steam account. Once it has verified this once, it does not verify it again. It is also unable to verify this information without an internet connection.

    I'm not sure what Mathalamus is trying to say when he says "verify it is legit" if he doesn't mean online validation. It certainly doesn't do checksums on the files, since you can modify files easily and still play the game - there's no reason steam would care about this anyway. You can perform an integrity check which will repair your files if you think they have become corrupted, but this also requires and internet connection since the checksums and correct files are stored online.

    "Legitimate" means "attached to your account". You cannot verify this offline.

    You cannot attach a game to your account in order to access offline mode without being online once. This is why the game needs to be activated and decrypted once against your username. After that point, you can save your steam login token for offline use which will let you access the game while offline without having to validate it again.

    It really isn't a difficult concept. Steam has validated that the game can be accessed by your account, it gives your account a key to run it which can be stored offline and only works with your account.
     
  18. arstal

    arstal Say No 2 Net Validations

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Messages:
    771
    Steam is not that, as Steam has to run before you run your game, every time. I object to that- especially since Steam can decide to revoke your game. They may not do it without a reason, but the fact they can do it and have done it is enough (at a minimum, if they do that they should refund your money- like in the one case where Impulse did it)*

    Impulse is that.

    Gamersgate does this also, but without a client.

    *Brad Wardell revoked one guy's Impulse's account and refunded their entire purchase last year after getting tired of the guy repeatedly and personally abusing his support staff.

    Note: if you buy an Impulse game at retail (such as Sins or GalCiv II)- you can play the game outright from the disk. No need to log into Impulse or anything. You will need to in order to patch- but that's reasonable.
     
  19. Chalks

    Chalks The blue pieces

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    1,097
    Steam is the platform the game is built on, it obviously has to be run before hand. From a users perspective, there is no difference between this and without steam - you double click on the icon and the game loads.

    Why is steam running a problem? You don't like steam because it's an application that runs is pretty much what you've said.

    You clearly don't understand what steam is, despite people posting it literally hundreds of times.

    Steam is NOT A DD CLIENT. It provides DD functionality, but steamworks is an entire game networking, content distribution and management platform that Civ 5 is built on. Your reference to Gamersgate shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

    Steam does not just load up because it's fun. It loads up because it provides essential services to the host process.
     
  20. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    9,319
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks Chalks and HamTard for the explanations. And HamTard, you don't need to use caps at me - I'm not an idiot.

    The reason it confuses me is that it appears to be quite easy to copy the game.

    If I had a friend who owned a laptop that he didn't usually use online, it would be possible for me to install Steam and install civ5 on his computer while it's connected to the internet, using my account.

    He then goes offline and stays that way forever, while I continue to install and activate civ5 on my own computer.

    How is piracy being prevented in this sort of scenario with the DRM of Steam?
     

Share This Page