Discussion in 'Civ2 - Scenario League' started by Fairline, Mar 24, 2020.
rebuilding biker army...
Oklahoma City and Little Rock both throw off their Rebel shackles and join the Confederation.
Nothing happened the last weeks. Our workers currently rebuilding the roads to Monclova. A connection to Monterrey will be next.
May I have a suggestion on the scenario, Curt?
Like Fairline wrote before it seem´s that the Bikers and Indians have much less powerfull units than the Confederation and Empire at the beginning of the scenario.
I know, both civs where created as minor civs but especially rebel cities should be easy to conquer at the beginning. Because I lost my helicopter during the battle of Monterrey, it´s currently nearly impossible
for me to conquer rebel cities. It goes with a huge amount of weak units and heavy casualties on my side. The last two cities I got because I bribed the mayors.
Maybe, if you would like to change something on the scenario, you could make conquering rebel cities easier, at least at the beginning of the scenario.
The main problem is that you guys playing the small faction tried to play like you were the big boys. I know you had not played this scen before, but the small dudes
are all about building up power before going on a rampage. Everyone neglected the diplomat route, and blasted all their units away against hardcore defences.
It is vital to trade and advance your tech in this scen. Getting the thunderbolt bomber (an easy to gain unit) makes the scenario much easier...Air power is the key!
I have no plans to make changes at this time. I would, however, advise a refresher course in some old-fashioned CIV2 strategy!
Ciaran, the diplomats are useless to me. I can't even bribe the lowest of low rebels, let alone a city. Trade is also difficult: my trade options are many miles away, as I have such a small number of cities. The chances of them reaching their target cities are negligible.
I love the setting and 'start small and expand' vanilla feel of the game. Sebastian is right though: for the smaller nations a multiplayer game isn't really viable. I think playing the smaller nations in an SP game would be a blast - but in a multiplayer 'rogue-like' with no 'save-scumming' (I'm terrible for this in my own single-player games but consider it cheating in a multiplayer) it will be very tricky to prevail against the larger powers. Losing our key pair of units (helicopter and artillery) have left the bikers and Indians powerless. If you think of this as a multiplayer playtest, I would consider civ2units points
I agree. The scenario is quite unbalanced. It's not poor strategy on the part of 2/4 of our players. Even if they had adopted a trade and diplomat strategy from the outset, John and I would have taken huge areas of the map by the time they even got going. I'm already using diplomats to take cities extensively, given the windfall from Ft. Knox. They will never catch up.
What do you guys want to do? Use cheat mode to balance things? Start over with different civs? Try another scenario? Carry on?
I'd like to carry on. I'm enjoying the distraction from work and I'm not the most competitive person in the world, so I wont be sore about losing
Besides, I want a ring-side seat for the inevitable, and if I may be so bold, long overdue clash of titans between you and John
I suggest if we are wiped out me and civ2units pick up any remaining nations and play as them.
The scenaraio was always SP intended, and to be played as the two main factions, and optionally as the small guys for extra challenge.
Perhaps the hardness of playing from under a disadvantage is too brutal for some. It was designed that way, and meant to be tough.
Now for the third time I have said air power is the key. Get the Warthog and Falcon and you can roll over anyone. It doesn't matter
if your enemy covers half the map, if they neglected air cover, they will lose cities. The advice was ignored, but it's easier to cry
the design is "unbalanced", I guess. I suppose I had my eyes shut when I sat for hours tweaking unit stats.
Sneers and swipes by certain veteran designers aside, I will no longer interupt your play.
But I assumed you needed a comment from me. Well, you got it.
Ciaran I'm sorry my comments came across as criticism in bad faith. I totally understand that balance in the scenario was set up for sp, and I plan to enjoy this as a single player scenario while we're playing this mp game. Ignore my faux whinging - I'm having fun playing!
I shouldn't speak for Brian but I read his comments as constructive criticism of the scenario in a MP context rather than anything snide. Hope we can all remain friends here - we've put up with each other for the best part of two decades and I wouldn't want us to fall out now
I suggest that we continue playing but that the smaller tribes explore diplomatic assistance... USS Crown Point could be on station to help the Mexican government in three turns time, for example...
I'm not angry or anything, and respect everyone here. I understand the criticisms. So carry on, guys. Do what you must.
For what it's worth I think it's a lovely scenario and you've got "The Big Three" and "Rising Powers" pretty clearly in the readme, so I think you're good. It's hard to think of a MP game that has everything balanced. With 7 civs things might have been more interesting and balanced given the diplomatic options, but we're making good progress with 4. I do think Tech and Civ2Unit need to find a patron just like they would as say China, India, or Brazil in First Strike. That too could be fun for them I hope.
I will say I think I'd be lost if I hadn't played a SP match to familiarize myself just because this scenario has some scarcely-used concepts (like your technique of not allowing units to be built until the civ possesses certain improvements). It's all there in the readme but you really have to play it first.
Anyway, truly enjoyed my SP game and am having fun with this one. I'm looking more and more forward to your Star Wars one figuring it might be a similar experience.
Given this is a thread about corona virus multiplayer games in quarantine I thought I'd point out that I'm looking for some folks to give Midway a shot... You can find the game here. I'm looking to get it polished up and released so I can pursue other scenarios. Namely, Boudicca and Cold War 1947-1991 (which I know I shouldn't build but desperately want to).
I'm enjoying the game. I've also played it SP, and enjoyed that too. As I said when this first came up, there is a range initial strengths of the various factions. Unfortunately, the Indians and the Bikers are the weakest of the bunch.
I heard you the first time when you said air power was key, and I won't neglect it. Neither, I suspect, will John. I expect that we will both deploy large, modern air forces by the time the others build their first plane. This gap will not be easily overcome, even if folks take "a refresher course" in strategy.
Tesla taken, looking forward to electric tanks!
Once more, the factions were not intended to be equals. Some players were going to get the tough playthrough. Not sure what I can do about that.
Definitely my final post on thread. As the attitude around here is getting increasingly tiresome.
I really enjoy your scenario, it´s very funny to play, I like the idea.
Unfortunatelly I´m not the most skilled scenario player, but playing with the Indians as one of the weaker civs will be a challenge for me. I´m trying to survive as long as possible and build up a little empire around Mexico, Texas and California.
These damn fascist in Los Angeles must kick back into the Pacific. Air power will be usefull for that. Alternative some nukes.
Anyway, the roads are nearly completed between Monclava, Delicias and San Pedro.
First target will be the shores of southern Texas, there are too much bandits in this area, threatening my borders. My brave troops are ready to fight.
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