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Coronavirus 2: the Flattening

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Arwon, Apr 5, 2020.

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  1. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Pale Blue Dot youtube=wupToqz1e2g
    Azem.Ocram and Estebonrober like this.
  2. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy We'll dig up the road!

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    So the news of Moderna coming out with a possible vaccine shot the stock price up. Top execs in the company promptly sold their stocks....
     
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  3. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    Has he got to the bit in Revelations and the mark of the beast?
     
  4. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Executives typically cannot sell stocks in the company they work for other than by planning in advance. If I'm getting stock options, unless I'm trying to maintain some specific voting share, I'm selling as soon as they vest. Having both your wealth and your income dependent on the same company is far too risky and lacking in diversification.
     
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  5. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    yes, windows are notified
    so
    they had to wait for bringing the good news in public on that vaccin until they were in such a window ?
     
  6. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    It is likely they sold vested shares and not options.

    And I would note that none of the current "muh freedum" crowd has ever objected to the very old and readily accepted retail sign:

    No shirt
    No shoes
    No service
     
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  7. Takhisis

    Takhisis Free Hong Kong

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    up yours!
    From now on I'm treating Argentina's official spread rates and other data as a minimum, i.e. merely all those instances which they cannot deny.
    Somebody in my building has been ruled to ‘not have coronavirus and therefore most likely dengue’ because this person was not coughing… also they haven't done any actual testing because there are not enough reagents, we are told.

    And there's an ongoing endemic dengue outbreak which the authorities cannot control so dengue cannot be ruled out in any case!

    So for the next three weeks I think I'd better treat the entire monoblock as a deathzone and avoid even the elevators. At least I'll get some exercise out of buying fresh produce. *grimaces*
     
  8. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    As, what I think is a reasonable skeptic of masks, I don't have any problem with businesses requiring people wear masks. (Provided they also provide scent-free hand sanitizer so that correct hand sanitization when donning/doffing can be followed.)

    Personally, I'll prefer to use business that don't require masks, as they tend to give me crippling compression headaches in short order. (As do glasses and tight hats.)
     
  9. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    If you require hand sanitizer, you should bring your own. That is a personal responsibility issue.

    Do masks that loop over your ears give you headaches or just those that tie at the back?
     
  10. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Anyone with a mask requires hand sanitizer, it's irresponsible and dangerous if a store requires people to touch a mask and then allows them to enter the store without sanitizing their hands. Touching a mask is like coughing into your hands. I'd be fine with stores that require people to supply both a mask and hand sanitizer.

    Masks that tie at the back would be better for me, I expect, they seem like they'd be easier to tie in a way that places minimal pressure on the head. I haven't had the opportunity to try those. The ear loop ones pretty consistently give me headaches.
     
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  11. Narz

    Narz keeping it real

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    No way I'm wearing a mask for more than five minutes, breathing your own exhales back in all day can't be healthy.
     
  12. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    I'm not aware of any empirical data or even a mechanism where breathing through a mask isn't healthy - it's not like you're breathing into a balloon, you're just breathing through a filter, and masks with unfiltered exhale valves are readily available.
     
  13. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    From an article I saw on nurses that have now to work much more and longer with masks
    You can try to look in the following direction:

    Whereas a small shortage of O2 is really not that bad (happens also when you are at higher altitudes) not getting adequately rid of your CO2 from hindered breathing or a bit of disturbed breathing (a bit of hyperventilating) is a normal cause for a headache. Gathered moisture in your mask tissue can make breathing also more difficult leading to changing your breathing behaviour. Normal ordinary stress can cause the same.
    Breathing out of enough CO2 is key.
    Your breathing is regulated on the CO2 in your blood.
    CO2 causes headache.
     
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  14. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Did you quote the right thing? My headaches aren't related to CO2 - if I pull back on the ear loops with my hands to relieve the pressure on my ears/skull, the headache disappears almost immediately.
     
  15. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    Yes

    Your irritation can cause stress. That's how yousound about it anyway.
    And your mind is clever enough to switch off the headache when that cause is removed... whether from that stress or the induced CO2 change. From real input or from learning from soon to follow real input (a bit like placebo).
    Do you know how fast CO2 and O2 changes from breathing ?
    very fast !.
    A few breaths of only Nitrogen, meaning not inhaling O2 and only exhaling CO2 AND O2 (from your blood !) and you are unconscious and die almost immediately. Lung surface interface is very effective.
    Standard industrial hazard for confined spaces if you work with gasses.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  16. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Do you ever wear glasses?
     
  17. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Not for vision correction, but sunglasses yes. They give me headaches other than the kind with hinges that bend outwards, which are usually okay. But just now I googled to see if outwards-bending hinges have a specific name, and they're apparently not meant to be used in that way - what I'm apparently supposed to be doing is getting glasses from an optician who shapes the frames so that the hinges are in the closed position when they're on my head.

    I wear safety goggles rather than safety glasses, the strap behind the head is usually fine as long as it isn't too tight.

    I can't watch 3D movies because I invariably spend the last 3/4 of the movie fidgeting with the glasses and awkwardly holding the arms away from my head until my arms get tired.
     
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  18. Takhisis

    Takhisis Free Hong Kong

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    up yours!
    Trump tees up controversy as he plays golf in a pandemic. The president visited his own golf club in Virginia as the US coronavirus death toll approaches 100,000

    US critics of stay-at-home orders tied to fossil fuel funding
    ExxonMobil, Koch and Mercer family are past funders of critics of stay-at-home orders as fossil fuel industry struggles amid lockdowns

    Dozens of individuals and groups urging states to reopen amid the Covid-19 pandemic have historical financial ties to coal and oil and gas companies and conservative billionaires who have invested in climate disinformation.

    Past funders of the current critics of stay-at-home orders include the bankrupt coal company Murray Energy and oil giant ExxonMobil, as well as Koch and Mercer family foundations, according to DeSmog, a group that tracks the money behind anti-climate-action campaigns.

    Some of the contributions tallied are recent and others are at least five years old or older. ExxonMobil, for example, had broken ties with two of the groups in this story by 2006. There is no evidence that these companies and foundations are funding ongoing campaigns to reopen businesses.

    But Brendan DeMelle, executive director of DeSmog, said the “information echo chamber” of interests downplaying both the climate crisis and the pandemic would not be what it is today without fossil fuel funding.
    Spoiler :
    “While we don’t have direct evidence of specific grant money going for Covid denial, none of these operations would exist without their support over the years,” DeMelle said.

    Donations to not-for-profit thinktanks are nearly impossible to track in real time because of a lag in reporting. It could take years to reveal which interests are currently funneling money to the groups helping to organize and expand shutdown protests. Even then, much of the funds could be hidden, donated anonymously through third-party not-for-profits, DeMelle said.

    But DeSmog’s research shows many of the calls to end stay-at-home orders are coming from people associated with a wide-ranging network of organizations that together seek to limit the power of government and thwart intervention in business. That web of thinktanks was built years ago on contributions from the fossil fuel industry and conservative philanthropists.

    Now, the fossil fuel industry is struggling amid government lockdowns aimed at preventing the spread of the coronavirus, and allowing people to move freely and return to work would help the sector by boosting energy demand.

    As Donald Trump has advocated for a quicker reopening, often against the recommendations of his expert advisers, Republican voters’ views on how to handle the coronavirus have shifted substantially.

    Just 43% say it is more important for the government to address the spread of the virus than the economy, down from 65% about a month ago.

    Trump’s calls for a quicker return to regular life have grown in popularity as they have been echoed throughout conservative media, often backed by thinktanks connected to the oil and coal industries.

    In Wisconsin, where people have protested against a stay-at-home order, the Koch-backed group Americans for Prosperity (AFP) filed an amicus brief with the state supreme court challenging the authority of the governor and the health department to continue to require people to stay home without sign-off from the Republican-controlled legislature. The court last week struck down the state’s order, calling it a “vast seizure of power”.

    Charles Koch, the 20th-richest billionaire in the world, runs Koch Industries, which is involved in oil operations and energy-intensive industries. He and his late brother, David, have funded a network of conservative thinktanks.

    Phil Kerpen, a Koch political operative, has argued that lockdowns are “unscientific”, and “medieval” and don’t save lives. Kerpen is president of American Commitment, a group that through 2016 has received at least $6.9m from Freedom Partners, which is partially funded by the Kochs, according to DeSmog. He was previously vice-president of AFP until 2012.

    An AFP spokesman said the group has been “unambiguous” in its position that “the choice between full shutdown and immediately opening everything is a false choice”, and that it is working with officials and businesses to develop standards to “safely reopen the economy without jeopardizing public health”.

    “Past grants do not define our position on reopening the economy – to suggest otherwise is disingenuous,” the AFP spokesman said. “None of the grants referenced have anything to do with stay-at-home orders and some of them were made many years ago.”

    The Washington Post has reported that the Convention of States, a project launched in 2015 with money from the family foundation of the billionaire Republican donor Robert Mercer, has helped to coordinate activism against the stay-at-home orders around the country.

    The conservative thinktank the Manhattan Institute – which over the years has taken at least $1m from ExxonMobil through 2018, according to the environment group Greenpeace USA, as well as $3.2m from Koch foundations and $2.2m from the Mercer Family Foundation – has published commentary questioning the value of shutdowns.

    Brian Riedl, writing in the Manhattan Institute publication City Journal, called the shutdowns unsustainable, saying just a few months “will cost the government and the economy trillions of dollars”.

    An ExxonMobil spokesman, Casey Norton, noted the company had not contributed to most of the groups in this story for years and said it was not pushing to lift stay-at-home orders.

    “We continually evaluate our memberships and participation in organizations, and we do not contribute to organizations if we are not actively involved,” Norton said.

    “As for return to work, our focus right now is on ensuring the safety and health of our entire workforce and to do our part to limit the spread of the novel coronavirus in the community.”

    The Daily Caller, a news organization that has received $3.5m through 2017 from Koch foundations through its non-profit, has run articles suggesting Democrats want to kill the economy to keep Trump from getting re-elected.

    “The mainstream media, which works for the Democrat party, wanted us shut down more, and for longer,” said opinion contributor Ron Hart.

    Often, funding by the fossil fuel industry is less obvious and more difficult to follow. Bits and pieces of financial connections are revealed in regulatory and court filings, but many are hidden behind dark money groups.

    One shutdown critic, author Alex Epstein, runs the for-profit thinktank the Center for Industrial Progress. Epstein has said his clients include the president of the Kentucky Coal Association and thecoaltruth.com, a project DeSmog links to employees of Alliance Coal.

    Epstein in a podcast compared the coronavirus to the seasonal flu and said “the purpose of the government is not to extend people’s lives. It’s to leave us free to live our lives as we judge best.”

    Epstein told the Guardian his clients pay him “solely to advise them on *their* messaging”, and that “none of them have any influence on what I say publicly, on this or any other issue”.

    Other critics of reopening are connected with the Competitive Enterprise Institute, the American Council for Capital Formation and the Heartland Institute.

    Chris Horner, a former fellow at CEI, in an op-ed in the Washington Times in March warned that “the current ‘coronavirus economy’ could become legally mandated, with no recovery permitted but only worsening, in the name of climate change”. Horner received funding from the coal company Alpha Natural Resources, according to a bankruptcy filing.

    Joel Zinberg, of CEI, and Richard Rahn – who is chairman of the Institute for Global Economic Growth and board member of ACCF – have also criticized stay-at-home orders. Rahn has called Covid-19 the “Chinese Communist party virus”.

    CEI received $2.1m from ExxonMobil through 2005 and has taken $200,000 from Murray Energy more recently. ACCF has gotten $1.8m from ExxonMobil through 2015 and $600,000 from Koch groups through 2015.

    ACCF as an organization “has taken no position on the stay-at-home orders or any prospective timeline for reopening the economy”, said the group’s CEO, Mark Bloomfield.

    The Heartland Institute, which denies the severity of anthropogenic climate change, has received $6.7m through 2017 from the Mercer Family Foundation, as well as $130,000 from coal company Murray Energy. The group received $25,000 from a Koch foundation for one specific project and got money from ExxonMobil until 2006.

    A Heartland spokesman, Jim Lakely, has argued “leftists” are “stoking Covid-19 panic” and has called lockdown orders unconstitutional.

    “What’s the time limit on being labeled ‘Koch-funded’ or ‘Exxon-funded’? A decade? Two? Also, who cares?” Lakely said. He did not respond to questions about Mercer funding.

    Related: Fossil fuel firms linked to Trump get millions in coronavirus small business aid
     
  19. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    Honestly this explains you to me a lot more then one would imagine.

    Doctors and nurses do it all day long in surgery without any deleterious effects. At all. This is a stupid stupid myth. Its the worst form of stupid because it is done so one can act stupid and lazy and dangerous all at the same time.

    https://apnews.com/afs:Content:8949990001

    False. There’s no evidence that wearing a mask causes hypercapnia, or that masks can trap the virus and lead to an infection in the brain. Hypercapnia occurs when there is too much carbon dioxide in the bloodstream. Mild cases can lead to issues such as headache and anxiety; severe cases can interfere with breathing.

    Right all this crap is totally stupid. forget doctors and nurses (obviously they are in on the conspiracy) think of all the construction workers wearing N95s for hours at a time. Jesus Christ people think for two minutes.

    CO2 breathing might cause headaches but masks do not cause them. Ear aches are common and in @Zelig 's case tie up masks would probably work much better for him.

    Finally this bullfeathers. Look you aren't wearing the mask to protect yourself. You are wearing it to protect others from you, so even if the mask is provided its for you to protect others not yourself. Also if a mask is provided it should be from a box or freshly laundered and therefore hand sanitizer is not required. You are not walking into a clean room or surgical suite. You walking into a filth ridden store most likely. Calm the eff down and be considerate of others. ffs.







    I expect better here. I mean really.
     
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  20. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    You're sanitizing your hands to protect others. I am the one being considerate of others here.
     
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