Coronavirus 3: The Resurgence

[Takhisis]

The politicized science has 2 distinctive bases - the Republican base and the Democrat base, so I try to convert in between them.

Yeah, fine people on both sides, I know.

 

[tuckerkao]

The recent trends of the deaths per million population rate suggest the United States may surpass most of the European nations with the next month or 2 -

You can hope that a more trustworthy country is earlier with doing a big round of vaccinations and info becomes public from that country.

I am BTW not sure that one vaccination round will be enough. Perhaps we need per person two or three times a dose.
Could depend as well on the type or brand of vaccin.

If Moderna can launch the vaccine trial in my state someday, I'll try it immediately.

When science becomes politicized it stops being science.

Let me rephrase this: When science becomes politicized it stops being the single-based science.

Yeah, fine people on both sides, I know.

They are both telling certain amount of truth but generate much harder time for the general public to understand the procedures quickly.

 

[Arwon]

Mandatory vaccinations are going to be a serious issue in this context. Any COVID vaccination seeing general use within a year or so would do so at a complete departure from how approval and testing goes for vaccinations in general. Forcing people to have them given the non-standard process, comparatively low death rate, and risk/uncertainty of the vaccine itself would be a massive ethical and possibly legal issue.

The R0 of this thing is thankfully low enough that we're not going to need 90%+ coverage for it to be effective, so it's not like the measles vaccine where policy almost demands forcing it on the reluctant and marginalised.

It might be 70% coverage needed. Which means making it free and available everywhere in a convenient way should be sufficient without trying to compel anti vaxxers.

The real issue seems like it'll be that availability question. If the antibodies aren't long term, we may need to repeat the dose every few months. Getting 75% of 7 billion people a vaccine shot every four months means nearly 0.6% of the population being the vaccine every day. That would be nearly 2 million daily vaccinations in the United States. That's a mammoth undertaking.

If the vaccine needs to be repeated even annually, it probably requires more than just working through existing private clinics and pharmacies like with the flu vax... we're possibly talking about building new state institutions to roll out dedicated vaccination centres in every neighbourhood on the planet.

 

[Hrothbern]

If Moderna can launch the vaccine trial in my state someday, I'll try it immediately.


Let me rephrase this: When science becomes politicized it stops being the single-based science.

I saw some interviews of people who were part of the first trials and their experiences after they got vaccinated.
People's immune systems can react very differently on the same doses. Also "healthy" people without known deviations.
People with a strong immune system could flare readily to strong reactions, high fever, etc.
Let's see what we will learn from those trials.

 

[tuckerkao]

I saw some interviews of people who were part of the first trials and their experiences after they got vaccinated.
People's immune systems can react very differently on the same doses. Also "healthy" people without known deviations.
People with a strong immune system could flare readily to strong reactions, high fever, etc.
Let's see what we will learn from those trials.

The high fever usually last only 1 to 2 days, the side effects are often inevitable.

How long will the immunity response last? Do I have to be re-vaccinated on the yearly basis or even semi-yearly?

 

[Takhisis]

[U.S. Republicans and Democrats] are both telling certain amount of truth

No. Emphatically no.

 

[tuckerkao]

No. Emphatically no.

They are both telling the partial truth to the general public. If they offer the complete false claims, their organizations won't even be able to stand, think about Dr. Fauci, he has been right as many times as he has been wrong.

 

[Zelig]

I am very much pro-vaccine also. I just don't trust administration to tell the truth about the risks in this particular case, and to make no significant mistakes in what is evidently a large deviation from standard processes. That's the stuff errors are made of and the risk/benefit tradeoff is suspect for most people...in stark contrast to getting vaccinated for something like MMR or hepatitis/etc where pretty much everyone who can be vaccinated should be.

Antibody-dependent enhancement is one thing I'd want to see a vaccine very carefully monitored for. Dengvaxia took over 20 years to develop before coming to market in 2016, and then a year later the manufacturer and WHO updated their recommendations based on plausible anti-dependent enhancement. (And they're still not actually sure what causes increased severe adverse outcomes in vaccinated seronegative individuals.) We already know that antibody-dependent enhancement is a concern based on SARS-CoV-1 vaccine trials.

 

[Hrothbern]

The high fever usually last only 1 to 2 days, the side effects are often inevitable.

How long will the immunity response last? Do I have to be re-vaccinated on the yearly basis or even semi-yearly?

I do not exclude that this Covid-19 will need more than one vaccination just to get us safely and properly vaccinated.
That the antibody count goes down over time does not mean that our defense goes down at the same rate.
Tests will be needed to find out.

In general over time it could be so that it "pays" to get a yearly update of our immune system with some flu-corona cocktail.
This will cost money, but considering the sickness rate reduction it will handsomely pay back.
The question is I think more whether we can run such a program without negative side effects on health for sub-groups of people and how well we can discriminate them to avoid vaccinating them.

Many don't knows.

 

[tuckerkao]

I do not exclude that this Covid-19 will need more than one vaccination just to get us safely and properly vaccinated.
That the antibody count goes down over time does not mean that our defense goes down at the same rate.
Tests will be needed to find out.

In general over time it could be so that it "pays" to get a yearly update of our immune system with some flu-corona cocktail.
This will cost money, but considering the sickness rate reduction it will handsomely pay back.
The question is I think more whether we can run such a program without negative side effects on health for sub-groups of people and how well we can discriminate them to avoid vaccinating them.

Many don't knows.

There's another promising vaccine from the Oxford University, they are performing trials in Brazil and South Africa. Hopefully the same company will launch trial campaigns widely in the United States too.

It'll take some time before the sickness rate to decline to a comfortable level after the vaccine candidates become available. I just hope the Chinese government won't on purposely try to mutate Covid-19 in some manners to defy the existing vaccines.

 

[Hrothbern]

I just hope the Chinese government won't on purposely try to mutate Covid-19 in some manners to defy the existing vaccines.

Considering the many deaths and misery from Covid

If that would really happen... they will be blown out of existence.

But I do not think that China is going to meddle with that box of Pandorra.

 

[tuckerkao]

Considering the many deaths and misery from Covid

If that would really happen... they will be blown out of existence.

But I do not think that China is going to meddle with that box of Pandorra.

I don't understand all the scene behind why the Houston Chinese consulate was closed, but there's a possibility the Chinese spy is attempting to mess up with the Covid vaccine developments.

 

[Hrothbern]

I don't understand all the scene behind why the Houston Chinese consulate was closed, but there's a possibility the Chinese spy is attempting to mess up with the Covid vaccine developments.

Forget all the spy stories unless it is your hobby or you work at a polace where it is relevant.
Spies were there since time immemorial
nothing new under the sun

Spies have a news value comparable with news and scandals of celebrities.

 

[tuckerkao]

Since we still don't know the exact origin of this virus. Chinese let the virus spread out ferociously in Wuhan, then they suddenly got the new cases mostly contained right after New York City turned into the epicenter by mid-March 2020.

Maybe the timelime was just the coincidence. I'm aware there is also a vaccine company developing in China, are they willing to provide their products to the western worlds or only their own alliance nations such as Russia.

If that would really happen... they will be blown out of existence.

The United States is really divided between its own civil groups, whereas China and Russia seem to join arm pretty strong. Maybe not at this moment, but I don't see how the United States can easily win a world war at least not against the Coronavirus.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The R0 of this thing is thankfully low enough that we're not going to need 90%+ coverage for it to be effective, so it's not like the measles vaccine where policy almost demands forcing it on the reluctant and marginalised.

It might be 70% coverage needed. Which means making it free and available everywhere in a convenient way should be sufficient without trying to compel anti vaxxers.

The real issue seems like it'll be that availability question. If the antibodies aren't long term, we may need to repeat the dose every few months. Getting 75% of 7 billion people a vaccine shot every four months means nearly 0.6% of the population being the vaccine every day. That would be nearly 2 million daily vaccinations in the United States. That's a mammoth undertaking.

If the vaccine needs to be repeated even annually, it probably requires more than just working through existing private clinics and pharmacies like with the flu vax... we're possibly talking about building new state institutions to roll out dedicated vaccination centres in every neighbourhood on the planet.

At some point the scale becomes too crushing and we might be forced to constrain vaccinations to at-risk populations.

 

[Seon]

Did Donald Trump’s doctor claiming demon sperm is what causes covid 19 come up yet

 

[FriendlyFire]

They are both telling the partial truth to the general public. If they offer the complete false claims, their organizations won't even be able to stand, think about Dr. Fauci, he has been right as many times as he has been wrong.

But if you inject bleach then you wont die from Corna (die from bleach and not be counted a corna death) /s
While the Democrats have been spinning this crisis for political advantage its pales in comparison to Trump and the Republicans endless gaslighting.

 

[Takhisis]

Did Donald Trump’s doctor claiming demon sperm is what causes covid 19 come up yet

I haven't gotten that far yet, only as far as Twitter suspending Donald Jr's account for spreading false claims about snake oil, I mean, hydroxichloroquine.

 

[Seon]

Mmm apparently upon closer inspection, it is indeed that Donald Trump Jr’s video in which a doctor who claims all manner of ailments are caused by demon sperm is pushing chloroquine.

 

[Takhisis]

So it's the same video. I didn't inspect closer because I had my own daily ramblings in an unsaved .txt to peruse. >_<