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Coronavirus: awaiting for the new wave

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Josu, Dec 10, 2020.

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  1. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    Me too
    But Baudet is using Covid and the Trumpism wave to advance his own political agenda here in NL.
    The other populist rightwing guy, mr Wilders, PVV, is accusing the Left of the riots !
    (as if it is the BLM)

    better stop here with this side tracking,
    but here in NL we need to get this under control for the simple reason that this is frustrating a good social distance and lockdown behavior for the 99% of the people.
    This is about human lives.
     
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  2. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Are COVID vaccination programmes working? Scientists seek first clues

    The results from Israel are among the first to report the impact of vaccines administered to people outside clinical trials. They provide an early indication that the two-dose RNA-based vaccine developed by Pfizer–BioNTech can prevent infection or limit its duration in some vaccinated people.
    In a preliminary analysis of 200,000 people older than 60 who received the vaccine, compared with a matched group of 200,000 who did not, researchers found that the chances of testing positive for the virus were 33% lower two weeks after the first injection.
    Israel aside, vaccines will not have an impact on viral spread any time soon, says Raina MacIntyre, an epidemiologist at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. “Many other countries are using much lower-efficacy vaccines, which are unlikely to control infection,” she says.
    Modelling work by Hogan shows that vaccines that are less effective at preventing infection will have a smaller impact on transmission in the population. “But even with an imperfect vaccine, that population-level impact on deaths could still be quite substantial,” she says.
    It sounds to me like a fully vaccinated population will not be able to return to normal any time soon.
     
  3. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    What happens if you give a third dose to people who have after the first two doses not many antibodies ?
    And would that differ much when the third dose would come half a year later ?
    Or even more pessimistic: do we end up with a yearly Covid vaccin like with the flu for older people ?
     
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  4. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    I would totally go to a party like this, but not all the time. Once would be fun.

    I think this will mainly depend on the hospital situation. If this one is good, then we could actually treat this like a "cold".
     
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  5. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Moderna reckon theirs works against the new variants:

    Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine showing activity against emerging strains of SARS-CoV-2. Vaccination with the Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine produced neutralizing titers against all key emerging variants tested, including B.1.1.7 and B.1.351, first identified in the UK and Republic of South Africa, respectively. The study showed no significant impact on neutralizing titers against the B.1.1.7 variant relative to prior variants. A six-fold reduction in neutralizing titers was observed with the B.1.351 variant relative to prior variants. Despite this reduction, neutralizing titer levels with B.1.351 remain above levels that are expected to be protective.​
     
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  6. r16

    r16 not deity

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    only to remind people that Trump will remain "responsible" for the stupid inaction he led , false promises and whatnot and ı "naturally" have no issues believing Trumpism as readily pushed on leading to this or that . A litmus test of sorts , perhaps , with power structures established by Anglo something , blaming China for everything while increasing the pressure . Didn't the corporations get their vaccine licences ? Also hearing Pfizer and one other company reneging or trying to do so on contracts they were already paid for , because speculation is cool . Even Donald J Trump fell , with the feeling of dumbness prevalent in the 21st Century . Better to remember this thing , eh ? And how the general collapse of countries is supposed to benefit companies and stuff again ?
     
  7. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Not did it happen here.

    But it's true that cultural imports from across the Atlantic have been hitting the northern countries of Europe heaviest. Though they spread everywhere. That's the goal set for Europe by governments over there, apeing the US... you reap what you sow.
     
  8. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Median age in Congo is also 18, and there are only 2 million people over the age of 65.
     
  9. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    According to this
    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577
    it takes around 12 days for the vaccine to be effective. So I am not sure what 33% after 14 days is supposed to tell me.
     
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  10. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    Possibly bad news on the efficiacy of the Oxford-AstraZenica Covid vaccin for people 65+ being only 8% effective according to German reports.
    I hope further reports have better results.

     
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  11. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    Interesting, but I cannot find the reason for this number. I think the source is this german article that I cannot read, from the science media centre, whoever they are:
     
  12. Thorgalaeg

    Thorgalaeg Deity

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    I think we are going to find that many covid vaccines are nothing but a fraud. You can't leave such important things in the hands of private corporations who only want to huckster his merchandise to us and earn as much money as quickly as possible before others do.
     
  13. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    That German article, in so far I can read it before the paywall kicks in, tells that same 8%.
    That German article says no more.
    It also made Reuters (and Bild) without adding real info.
    Could all be more fear than substance possibly based on a small sample for elderly.
    Could also be part of the delivery brawl between AstraZenica and Germany-EU.

    Wait and see.
     
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  14. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    The accusation has already been made that AZ sold vaccins to other countries breaking its contract to the EU
     
  15. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    People can measure their antibody levels after vaccination and verify if vaccine has intended effect.
    I read that last month clinical trials of Sputnik-V run into trouble because people from placebo group start exiting trials en masse. Simply because they checked their antibodies and found out they were in control group. Currently placebo-controlled trials are stopped and all people are given real vaccine.
     
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  16. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Deity

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    @alexwickham
    Editor Politico tweeted:
    ·
    NEW: The German Health Ministry has DENIED the Handelsblatt report claiming the AstraZeneca vaccine had only 8% efficacy for over-65s They say there has been confusion and 8% actually refers to the number of people in the study between 56 and 69 years old Oh my word...

    The Handelsblatt guy has obvs had a mare but it doesn't take away from the fact that German government officials have been briefing against the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine amid EU rollout problems... pretty shocking for UK-EU relations... imagine if the shoe were on the other foot
     
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  17. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    An interesting statement indeed.

    From time to time purchasers of goods will include contract clauses with suppliers stating that they have:
    (a) exclusive right to purchase a product (b) or the supplier may not sell it to other customers for less.

    UK courts invariably interpret these clauses as a restraint of trade and rule that such clauses are unlawful.
    I believe that USA and Indian courts, having legal systems derived from English law, adopt a similar approach.

    Perhaps EU law is different.

    But what is extraordinary is that the EU seems to be claiming a priority right to purchase a product that the
    supplier may not put on general sale within the EU because the product had not yet itself met EU regulatory approval.

    I.e to block sales within the EU citing regulatory approval required and to block sales elsewhere, where regulatory
    approval may have been given or waived, citing a contract clause in a secret contract that we may not see.

    My understanding is that the AstraZeneca vaccine is cheaper than some, not requiring such special freezing etc,
    and I wonder if the lobbyists for one corporate have successfully infiltrated German (and thereby EU) policy making.
     
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  18. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    Given the EU has yet to approve the AZ vaccine for use, I find it very difficult to present an ethical defense for the EU having any say in this matter. Given the levels of covid cases at the moment, speed is an important factor in the vaccination program. It would be a gross violation of ethics to have vaccine doses sitting around doing nothing while the EU ponders whether they're even going to use them, when other countries want those doses right now. I am not a lawyer, so I've no idea what the legal situation is, but from an ethics standpoint the EU need to make up their mind if they're going to use the AZ vaccine before they have any say where doses of it are sent.
     
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  19. r16

    r16 not deity

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    or it could be state pressure on others to create an appearance of failure because stamp of approval was guaranteed and it would be speedily applied . But hey , 60% vaccination in some EU free country while EU can not even 10% ! Yay , Freeeeedooooom ...
     
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  20. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    In typical EU fashion all the actual contracts for vaccine supplies signed by the European Commission are being kept secret from the public. I don't know whether national governments have even been officially given copies of those contracts. So this "vaccine war" is based on allegations by the EC that cannot even be checked.
    They like to talk about free competition and open public tenders by the national governments, about fighting corruption and "rule of law". But the EC and the rest of the EU bureaucracy puts itself always above and immune to all the laws and regulations it makes.

    I'm inclined to think this spat is about the EC and certain national governments fighting over the way how things were done, with everyone involved assuming that the vaccines do work. Hence the delay will look bad, that is the thinking, and the blame game commences.

    And I won't go as far as thinking they are frauds. But the quick rollout is dangerous and imo wrong. There are other options available to resolve this crisis which do not require use of rushed vaccines. The vaccines are not effective at providing immunity, only on reducing the virus effects and hopefully viral loads and reducing transmission. The deployment is the test, which is dangerous. We don't know how long that will hold and possible unwanted effects that haven't been tested for.

    Weighting all this I'm kind of relieved that the EU is "late" on the vaccination efforts and there will be some results from "guinea pigs" elsewhere before it can be pushed en masse here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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