Coronavirus, now treatable with ForXthia!

[Zardnaar]

Both Y axes and the X axis are labelled.

Drunk Pole effect.

 

[Berzerker]

it's almost certainly recruiting the worst cops. Dumb and willing to brazenly break the rules.

what rules?

 

[MrCynical]

This is odd. There were documents obtained under some FOIA I believe, a couple of months ago published in the "alternative media" sites. Showing that Fauci had lied about the research being financed din Wuhan. But mainstream media didn't though the news. Looked like it would remain buried.

Now one maganize publishes a piece on it? There's a new letter acknowledging some of the things? Is Fauci about to be retired or what?

There's certainly some rather serious implications from the information discussed in that article. The NIH letter does spell out that the Wuhan institute did modify at least one bat coronavirus (WIV1) by replacing the spike protein with sequences from other known coronaviruses. They were then investigating binding of this modified virus in a mouse model expressing the human ACE2 protein to study if the spike proteins could bind to ACE2 (also some unspecified other cell lines). And they found that this modified virus resulted in far more serious symptoms in the mice.

They seem to have been relying on a rather narrow technical definition for gain of function research. Arguing that since the modified virus was not intended to be more harmful that this experiment did not constitute gain of function research. That might, from a very strict legal standpoint, be true, but I'm not very impressed by this line of defence. Or by the argument that this was some completely unexpected and unpredictable result. Playing mix and match with spike proteins from different coronavirus strains should have immediately flagged up safety issues, and the potential for a more dangerous strain of virus to be produced. This is compounded by exposing the virus to other species (mice, and the human ACE2 receptor), allowing the virus the potential to adapt to new hosts.

This is in fact a remarkably stupid and reckless approach if the intention is, as stated, to investigate binding of the spike proteins to ACE2. There are numerous biophysical techniques for analysing protein-protein interactions that could be done using only the isolated proteins themselves. I'm rather familiar with them, since I use them regularly in my own research. No need for live viruses, cells or mice at all, removing all risk of infection and mutation.

The letter heavily emphasizes the large genetic distance between WIV1 and SARS-COV2, and yes the exact experiment outlined in the letter would not have produced SARS-COV2. But the Wuhan lab is know to have had samples of much closer coronaviruses, such as the RaTG13 strain, which is about a 96% match to SARS-COV2. That's still a couple of decades of natural mutation separating them. But if they were doing similar experiments to the one they did with WIV1 on other strains, then producing a SARS-COV2 ancestor suddenly looks a whole lot more plausible. And with the constant obstructions to the investigation, and blatant "sanitization" of any evidence the Chinese government allows out, I'm not going to trust any claim from them that these experiments were limited to WIV1.

The article brings up another rather suggestive piece of evidence. In 2018 the Wuhan institute submitted a grant proposal to DARPA to modify bat coronaviruses by inserting human-specific cleavage sites into them to "evaluate growth potential" of the viruses. Now this was rejected - rightly - as not taking into account the risks involved, and the dubious value of doing this (and it was correctly flagged as falling into the category of gain of function). But then SARS-COV2 shows up with one of these cleavage sites - the furin cleavage site that has attracted comment from the beginning as being odd and difficult to explain by natural processes (the wild hypothesis relies on bouncing the virus through an unknown intermediate species as an explanation, but we still don't have a clear hook on what that species would even be). Occam's razor is definitely starting to point towards them going ahead with trying out these modifications even after the grant was rejected. Add to that the knowledge that they were handling coronaviruses with only BSL2 containment levels on some occasions (completely inadequate for these viruses), and the multiple known incidents where Chinese lab workers were infected by SARS-COV1 from similar carelessness and, yeah...

It is not quite a smoking gun, but the hypothesis that SARS-COV2 came from the Wuhan lab now definitely has far fewer gaps in it than the hypothesis that it made the jump to humans in the wild, whether from bats or another species.

Not sure where that leaves Fauci. He may well be correct that this didn't technically meet the definition of gain of function in the regulations, but that only highlights how inadequate those regulations are. That might strictly get those in the US involved with this research off the hook from a legal standpoint, but it's not going to sound good at all in the court of public opinion. But that will depend on whether social media latches onto this, and if so to what. Twitter was mostly blowing up over a completely non Covid related bit of research that they managed to connect him to the funding of, due to it involving cute puppies.

 

[Zelig]

I'm currently reading an interesting book, The Precipice: Existential Risk and the Future of Humanity, written slightly before the pandemic, and the author's take is that the anthropogenic risk from pandemics is at least an order of magnitude greater than the natural risk, and that given the track record of BSL-4 labs, the escape of a pandemic pathogen from one is simply a matter of time.

 

[Takhisis]

And this is you playing dumb as always. I provided "proof":

Yeah, yeah, proof.
A year and a half ago, when the Argentine government was still in stage-1 denial and was actively fighting against private efforts, I mentioned the salient example of the Argentine Football Association docking River Plate some points when teh club refused to hold a mass spreader event of the type known as ‘football match’. Of course, you called me a liar even when I quoted the relevant news articles.
Guess what, AFA has recently upheld this on the downlow.

Just one example of many of your constant use of projection-deflection.

 

[stfoskey12]

The Wuhan lab history certainly stinks, and it stink the most because virologists from several continents colluded to suppress even discussing the risks ff what was being done there. Still I'm skeptical that the virus was one created there because I'm convinced some form of predecessor was already traveling between countries in late 2019. The lack of proper disclosure and discussion about what was being done with virus research is yet another thing I'm angry about.

But you know I meant that the restrictions or refusals of the mrna vaccines or even the viral vector AZ or J&J can't be so easily dismissed because they are "western". So it's obvious that even within the "the west" governments do not agree on the safety of these vaccines. It's not an issue of cost because there (the scandinavians) are rich enough to buy anything they choose. They're not notoriously corrupt either. Nor is this a case of vaccine waiting approval. It's cases, several, of vaccines having been used for a while and then withdrawn, with the governments selling off remaining doses to other countries. Because of safety concerts.

So none of your attempts to explain away these current differences in vaccine approval between countries are valid. It's a matter of some of the vaccines that are deemed safe in one country being deemed unsafe in another one. Some countries withdrawing them for everyone, some countries just for subsets of the population. This sis not "normal" with vaccines.

Perhaps the Swedes don't feel such a pressing need to vaccinate that they're willing to tolerate unusually high risks with a vaccine? But even the FDA in the US is holding out on that vaccine for younger people. Why pretend this is not happening? Because it interferes with the urge to vaccinate everyone and declare the pandemic over?



And this is you playing dumb as always. I provided "proof": the fact that agencies charged with reviewing the satiety of medications in different countries are holding off on several of the vaccines due to safety concerns. That is all the proof you are capable of reviewing. Is the FDA lying when it delays approval of the Moderna vaccine for teenagers due to safety concerns over myocarditis? Are the agencies in the scandinavian countries incompetent, and you better qualified to call them?

More damning, the vaccines refused are different ones depending on the country. The oxford vaccine is generallu considered bad by now and seems to have been pushed out of wealthy country's vacination programs as soon as they can afford others. Pfizer's is perhaps the cleanest shirt. Moderna is (is it obvious from the early studies) overdosing for no good advantage: it gets you perhaps to a few weeks more of sufficient antibodies, but everyone will be told to have boosters anyway.

@amadeus You should care because pretending that these different assessments about the safety profile of the vaccines are not evidence of problems is the like pretending that nothing strange happened in the Wuhan lab. Subverting, suppressing proper science and investigation for the sake of defending some failed policy from exposure (virus research on gain of function, or the quick deployment of vaccines to declare the pandemic over).

Let's say two vaccines are 1/1000 as dangerous as covid, and one is only 1/100 as dangerous as covid. If all three are similarly effective, it makes sense to only use the two safer vaccines, even though the third vaccine is still relatively safe. AFAIK that is what's happened with Moderna and J&J in different demographics.

 

[Drakle]

Very normal stuff for a police officer to fistbump a bunch of Nazi's doing a Hitler Salute and holding an anti-vax Protest. In Texas.




(Also Jews are vaccinated).

and New York Police shut down a bridge. Not to protest murders, but vaccine mandates, for the disease that has killed more Police Officers, than all causes combined.

The response when BLM marches were even near bridges, was to violently break them up, to stop even the possibility of roads or bridges being blocked.

And at a Chicago police, anti mandate march, they are handing out complete and utter nonsense.

Totally the best and brightest being purged by mandates. Not the dumbest and least caring of public safety.


All the while, The US is still averaging a bit over 1500 deaths a day.

Texas has hit over 70,000 Deaths and is less than 1000 from passing California's raw numbers, which it will do sometime next month.

Florida is about to hit over 60,000 Deaths

Georgia is about to pass New Jersey.

Mississippi according to the New York Times, has 9990 deaths or 336/100,000. 10 away from 10,000. Both it and Alabama jumped over New Jersey per capita. Louisiana is not far behind.

Arizona has also joined the trio of Southern states into a worse per capita toll than New York. Florida is about to pass the per capita of Massachusetts, which was hit early.

 

[amadeus]

I see something stupid about dogs/Fauci is gaining traction with the Outrage Media. They’re dogs, so what?

 

[Arwon]

Very normal stuff for a police officer to fistbump a bunch of Nazi's

At this point yeah I guess it is

 

[Drakle]

At this point yeah I guess it is

Yep

Also @red_elk What are your thoughts on this claim?

Just how bad is COVID in Russia right now? While official figures report 1,000 daily deaths, the actual number is closer to 3,000. One independent demographer tells@tvrain that he expects a death toll of nearly 90,000 in October. A rate not seen since the Second World War.

 

[Takhisis]

(Also Jews are vaccinated).

Can't you see that this is part of the Jewish plan to replace the white population of 'Murica and subvert democracy?

 

[Berzerker]

somebody should warn those people crossing the southern border about the covid rates

 

[amadeus]

Very normal stuff for a police officer to fistbump a bunch of Nazi's doing a Hitler Salute and holding an anti-vax Protest. In Texas.

I’m not discounting it as a possibility, but what’s in the video? There was somebody obviously streaming the protest, and I would guess (?) that Austin has police body-cams.

I don’t know a lot about police procedure, so if the officer was solicited for some kind of greeting or gesture like that, is it routine to turn them down on ideological reasons? Is it viewed as a way to de-escalate potential problems? If the neo-Nazis, abhorrent though in their beliefs, complied with the police... isn’t that sort of what we want?

Or the guy could be a crank. 50/50!

 

[red_elk]

Yep

Also @red_elk What are your thoughts on this claim?

From what I read, the demographer was talking about excessive mortality, which is understandably higher than confirmed covid deaths. In all countries, not just in Russia.
And since it was reported on opposition TV channel which commonly criticizes government and Putin, they might choose a government critic for the interview.
Which doesn't necessarily mean he is wrong, but he may be biased too.

 

[Zardnaar]

From what I read, the demographer was talking about excessive mortality, which is understandably higher than confirmed covid deaths. In all countries, not just in Russia.
And since it was reported on opposition TV channel which commonly criticizes government and Putin, they might choose a government critic for the interview.
Which doesn't necessarily mean he is wrong, but he may be biased too.

Not here.

1. Our country very good at record keeping.

2. One of the least corrupt countries in the world.

3. We've had less deaths than pre Covid.

4. One of the lowest death rates per Capita in the world.

So no it's not every country in the world.

 

[innonimatu]

Yeah, yeah, proof.
A year and a half ago, when the Argentine government was still in stage-1 denial and was actively fighting against private efforts, I mentioned the salient example of the Argentine Football Association docking River Plate some points when teh club refused to hold a mass spreader event of the type known as ‘football match’. Of course, you called me a liar even when I quoted the relevant news articles.
Guess what, AFA has recently upheld this on the downlow.

Just one example of many of your constant use of projection-deflection.

Search is so useful: that would be this post of yours? Notice who didn't comment on it: me. I was ignoring you, which I must consider again wise to do rather than waste my time with further replies.
Or it might have been one of your numerous anti-argentinian-government rants of numerous issues reported, where I did recall saying that you kept repeating the same tiresome assortment of half-baked claims. I don't keep track any more.

You might want to look into into getting professional help to address that persecution mania of yours. Or is it projection? Whatever. Ger better.

Moderator Action: Trolling like this is badly against the rules.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Kyriakos]

Any estimates as to when covid will be under control?
Or is this a perpetual "2 years down the line" thing.

 

[Snowygerry]

The 2 years was a minimum I was told, that was in spring 2020 - so still 6 months to go

Of course everything depends on your location, in some places it is more or less 'under control' others not so much...

 

[Drakle]

Any estimates as to when covid will be under control?
Or is this a perpetual "2 years down the line" thing.

When you and everybody else gets vaccinated. We have the tools, it just requires implementation. And the longer the world drags its feet, the more likely for a mutation to arise, since mutations arise from reproduction over time. Greece still has a poor vaccination rate, not having got even 70% of adults vaccinated yet.

For Australia, I think we are about to have it beat.

Current numbers

First Dose
ACT 99%
NSW at 93%
Victoria at 90.8%

The second Dose gap will catch up to the second, while NSW and Victoria's rates will rise a bit more. Then vaccines for children will be rolled out, and the pandemic will be done here in Southeastern Australia. The other states will hopefully rise to match, and Australia will be out of the pandemic.

However, Eastern Europe seems to be suffering, right now with COVID, yet vaccination rates remain stubbornly almost stuck. Just like the Red States of the US. Most of Western Europe is solid vaccination-wise and will be shored up by vaccinations for kids.

 

[Zardnaar]

Any estimates as to when covid will be under control?
Or is this a perpetual "2 years down the line" thing.

3 years is standard for these type of things.

Needs to mutate into more contagious less deadly variant.