Coronavirus: The Great Unmasking

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Birdjaguar, Jul 22, 2021.

?

Are you Vaccinated?

  1. Yes, Two shots

  2. Yes, One shot, need another

  3. Yes, One and Done

  4. Not yet

  5. No and won't be getting vaccinated

  6. I got a booster!

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  1. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    This is very definitely not a good idea.

    Firstly taking the vaccine after you have got Covid-19 and are noticing symptoms won't protect you.

    Secondly it will merely provide you with the opportunity to infect people in the queue at the vaccination point.
     
  2. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    You all can rant forever about the science and it is good or bad or shoulda coulda woulda, but reality is this:

    Inoculated States Keep Worst Covid-19 Outcomes in Check

    Covid graph.jpg
     
  3. Takhisis

    Takhisis Rum and coke.

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    up yours.
    That's like when we found out that, since vaccination started with the older age groups, the average age of infectees and deaths and so on fell. But vaccination is not a valid strategy, amirite?
     
  4. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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  5. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    @Kyriakos if your objection is to the repeated doses, this may be a good idea. One dose will produce most of the immunity sticks, for whatever use it may have (little), and will produce antibodies to make a different for at least a couple of mounts. Then you can decide on a second dose, by which time it'll be a "booster" already. Waiting and then getting it after having had covid won't be useful. It0's not a treatment, once you get the virus the last thing you need is a shot inducing production of more spike protein!
    You may of course have other objections to the vaccines.

    I don't believe any difference will be relevant. Moderna uses a higher dose (hence greater unwanted side effects), and seems to induce a slightly higher quantity of antibodies, at least that's what the older pre-delta studies showed. But they decline the same way and it won't get you even an extra month.

    What we're seeing about vaccine x better than y is imo mostly marking, not reliable information. The piece you link to is rather bad, it spreads outright lies:

    There is no way those vaccines are so effective against infection. If they were the number of infections in places like Israel or Iceland wouldn't have shot up.
    And then the piece gets internally incoherent:

    A 3x increase in relative risk after that time means a fall of efficacy (which is relative risk reduction) much greater than the one previously alleged.
     
  6. amadeus

    amadeus 朕ハ掲示板ナリ

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    The bat cat is already out of the bag. The vaccines, the ones made in reliable countries, are good. The data shows this. Beating the doomsday drum constantly, it’s getting a little old even though I respect your zeal in trying to kill off this virus.
     
  7. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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  8. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    Of course "IP protections" are a bottleneck. Take Moderna. That company had zero production capacity. They hired out everything. Look at the financial report they published this month.

    New production capacity hired in the EU and Switzerland. That's where their main production was hired already. They're paying other companies to produce the doses. And how much are they spending in payments? About 20% of what they're getting from resale of the doses to governments. That's the financing available for the actual produces to pay for materials and labour and ramp up production. Only 20% of what is being spend. Everything else is Moderna's profit.

    No wonder they want to "protect IP". What a sweet deal they got from governments.
    And only a small portion of the money being paid by governments for these vaccines is going to the actual produces of the vaccines - ramping up capacity might be costly, so what does this cause? A bottleneck. Because one corporation is taking the lion's share of the available funds.

    @amadeus if you want to believe Moderna, they assert in that investor report that their vaccines give 100% protection against death. They have a "Phase III CIVE study" saying so. Will the media slavishly echo the corporate PR again? Do say if you believe those 100% protection, I may also interest you in buying a bridge no nowhere - Swiss made, most reliable country!
     
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  9. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    I think without up protection the counter argument is no vaccines or you have the Chinese ones. Which are crap.

    Nationalising them would slow delivery and Moderna still has to compete with Pfizer etc.

    As long as they're not price gouging the government not a lot will happen. At $10 a vaccine 2 shot the entire USA can be done for 700 million or so. $15 1 billion, $20 1.4 billion.

    That's a drop in the bucket.
     
  10. amadeus

    amadeus 朕ハ掲示板ナリ

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    I haven't seen any press releases from Moderna, so I'll have to take your word for it.

    Yes, I believe it. When you have a study, you have a control group and an experiment group; without having read whatever study they cited, I would conclude that nobody in the experiment group died during the observation period. That isn't the same thing as saying it won't ever happen anywhere, but the statistical likelihoods we're looking at indicate the vaccines are very effective in preventing serious illness.
     
  11. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    I don't think that would be a good thing to bet on. Had seen some data previously that I didn't care enough about to dig up again, but this popped up today for a vaccine candidate I've been following: Durability and Cross-Reactivity of Immune Responses Induced by an AS03 Adjuvanted Plant-Based Recombinant Virus-Like Particle Vaccine for COVID-19
     
  12. amadeus

    amadeus 朕ハ掲示板ナリ

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    Must…buy…Microsoft…products…

    Spoiler Status! :

    Spoiler Chart! :
    temperature.png

    08-17 20:46: I stopped updating this on the 12th as my temperature and condition had returned to normal aside from a headache that lasted the day of.

    08-12 07:32: temperature 36.1c
    08-12 05:47: temperature 36.1c, ow my head! First Tylenol of the new day.
    08-11 21:58: temperature 36.6c
    08-11 20:12: temperature 36.7c
    08-11 18:02: temperature 36.6c
    08-11 16:49: temperature 37.1c
    08-11 15:03: temperature 37.4c, ate lunch and still a bit sluggish.
    08-11 13:34: temperature 37.2c, intermittent nausea. A bit sluggish.
    08-11 11:42: temperature 36.7c after Fabian cold shower
    08-11 11:28: temperature 37.3c
    08-11 10:40: ow, my anything. Tylenol to the rescue! (a single 300mg tablet per; well under safe limits)
    08-11 10:34: temperature 37.0c
    08-11 09:38: temperature 36.8c
    08-11 09:09: rearranged post. Arm, ow.
    08-11 07:04: temperature 36.4c
    08-11 06:53: ow, my arm! More Tylenol!
    08-11 02:19: temperature 36.4c
    08-11 02:09: ow, my arm.
    08-10 20:10: temperature 36.0c


    I rearranged the order so now the most recent updates are at the top, not the bottom.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2021
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  13. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Pfizer is perfectly safe. I had my shot on Thursday.

    Oh say can you see. By the dawn's early light....
     
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  14. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Yes, he choose to believe Moderna over some random guy from Portugal on the internet. :p
     
  15. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    100% protection against death is immortality, Moderna can't be able to give it.
    Even Sputnik is a little bit worse than that.
     
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  16. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Deity

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    2nd AZ shot 6 days ago. No bad effects. The jab site hurt if you punched it, so don't do that!
     
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  17. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    In any of the cases there won't be herd immunity. They're just hoping that natural immunity will keep being renewed without mass deaths that may lead the plebians to demand some action or - the dread! - refuse to keep working very exposed to the virus risks.
    Those who had been saying there would be herd immunity will of course serve the bad news as a drip (" only 50% protective against infection") rather than admit outright that these vaccines can't have any protective effect. A few more weeks and the 50% claim will be dropped.

    There is no way of stopping Covid spreading through the entire population, experts tell MPs as they call for end of mass testing

    Hysteria against the unvaccinated, blamed for spreading covid, took over the US so much that any reversal there will take longer. Talk of vaccinating children because "they might spread covid" continues but is slowly being shifted to a "they die too look at this anecdote, and that...".

    Lifting a monopoly on the production and sale of a product does not reduce offer or slow delivery. The opposite is true, more people and companies jump it to produce.
    The chinese vaccines are most likely as crappy as the western ones. The cases offered for to attack them for lower efficacy, such as new waves happening in very vaccinated countries with those chinese ones (Chile, Seychelles) now have a parallel in the huge new wave underway in the US, and the ones in the UK, Israel, Iceland, etc. They all totally failed at containing the virus, for the same reason.

    Continuing to claim "the chinese vaccines are clap" while the "western" ones are producing the very same results just shows how politicizied and unscentific all the narratives about the coronavirus and its treatments got. You still want to believe that.

    About the "missing deaths" in the UK, when one compares its covid death numbers to those of other countries also vacinated and with waves - looking at Israel and it's becoming clearer - there's this. It attributes a large number of extra deaths to cardiac problems. Now what do we know this virus does? Cardiac problems, circulatory problems... just because someone didn't die due to lung failure doesn't mean they're not dying from covid's damage a while later.

    What I expect we'll see, and what this piece already hints at, is a big rise in cardiac-related deaths due to the damage from covid. It may not get you immediately but it will cut your life expectancy drastically. And it's not necessary to have a serious case for being damaged, just look at the people being permanently damaged or dying from the spike in the vaccines. A few dozen in a million, you may say. For a limiter amount of spike protein produced.
    How many then per million infected with the real virus will be permanently damaged due to the spike protein? My guess is hundreds or perhaps thousands. Now consider that the sole thing governments (look at the UK's example above) want to do is offer vacines and let you get infected over and over again.
    It's madness to want to live with this virus. You die living with this virus.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2021
  18. Snowygerry

    Snowygerry Prince

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    It does when you afterwards need the same companies to produce and deliver the product, even increase production.

    Also, this is not a monopoly, there are any number of competing companies making comparable vaccines.

    Simply put - we need them to make of billions of vaccines in the next 12 months and distribute them around the globe - now may not be the best time to kick them in the balls, maybe later :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2021
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  19. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    This to expand production you need the people who made it expertise.

    Even if you nationalized it in the short term it's still going to take a year or so to get a new Factory online.

    You could revoke the IP I suppose but you still need to figure out how to copy and manufacture said vaccine.

    Assuming it works what about the next time you need a vaccine?

    The vaccines aren't even that expensive.
     
  20. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    You're really into following the party line of "capitalism good, anything else bad" aren't you? :lol:

    The Moderna vaccine is a perfect example of parasitic profit-taking enabled by government. A legal monopoly was gifted to Moderna because key patents belong to the US government, not to Moderna. And they're not paying anything for that monopoly control over the production of "their vaccine".

    Everything big from the studies to to actual mass production of the vaccine was outsourced to other companies hired by Moderna. Which are not free to just do it on their own because of the monopoly granted to Moderna.

    The cost of initial development was paid for in advance by the US government, as Moderna was losing money before.

    And you still want to believe that without granting artificial, legal monopolies, there could be none of these vaccines? Who sequenced the virus genetic code, do you know? Who designed the spike? Moderna had nothing to do with this. Moderna essentially could have been hided out, for the same initial government ibvestment or even less, to do the job it actually did. They were nearly bankrupt after a series of failed products and needed the money.

    As for the "Astra-Zeneca", everyone here knows that it was originally the Oxford vaccine, with production hired out to two companies in the UK. Big pharma was brought it... by a governments, the UK one in that case, also to be gifted a monopoly without any need.
     
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