Corporations are blowing my freakin' mind, man!

[blitzkrieg1980]

In my most recent game:
*standard map *epic speed *archipelagos *noble

The UN sec gen decided to vote on environmentalism civic for all civs and it passed!!! Then, my Permanent Alliance partner (Pacal) built the diamond corporation and spread it like crazy into my cities. Crap! So I spread the corporation to a bunch of my ally's (Huayana Capac) cities. The GPT was going insane.

At one point, I was gaining 150 GPT, once I hit the ENTER key, I was losing 50 GPT, then next turn I was gaining 5 GPT, next turn, losing 200 GPT. WTF??? What the hell have these corporations done to the game?!!?! I spread the corporation to 2 different cities and my GPT immediately goes down, then after "waiting for other players" it shoots up to big (+) GPT. It makes no sense. I really despise corporations especially when the AI gangs up and votes to pass a resolution that no sane strategist would go for. The worst civ had a life expectancy of 60 years, so health couldn't have been the motivation.

Someone please explain how these corporations work. How do you spread them effectively? How can you ensure that some .. .. .. .. head civ doesn't ruin your game by spamming them in your city? How can you possibly explain the AI stupidity in voting on environmentalism!?!?!?! alright... vented... some one help please...

 

[Yzman]

1) I never see the AI actually accept environmentalism...thats strange

2) mercantalism or state property will stop the spreading of foreign corps in your cities.(all corps for state property)

The best way I find for corps is to found them and then spread them like mad to every other civ in the world and not my own. Serious money.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Yeah, but what happens if the corporation is rampant within your own civ? Is this rare since my PA partner founded it and therefore it affects me? Is this why my GPT was going captain insano?

 

[TrailblazingScot]

1) I never see the AI actually accept environmentalism...thats strange

2) mercantalism or state property will stop the spreading of foreign corps in your cities.(all corps for state property)

The best way I find for corps is to found them and then spread them like mad to every other civ in the world and not my own. Serious money.

Hehe, I've had the AI force the whole world in Environmentalism, I wasn't too pleased!

 

[Tennyson]

Switching to State Property should turn off the corps IIRC. Even after they've been instituted.

 

[Yzman]

Yes state property will "turn them off"

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Switching to State Property should turn off the corps IIRC. Even after they've been instituted.

The fact is that inflation kills the value of corps.

So, either wait for the patch or put solver's unofficial patch in to improve the inflation problem caused by corps atm.

 

[Tennyson]

The fact is that inflation kills the value of corps.

So, either wait for the patch or put solver's unofficial patch in to improve the inflation problem caused by corps atm.

Yeah, I'm using solver's patch already. But environmentalism still kills profitability even if you have the headquarters.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Is it really the inflation? Ah, good. There are a couple changes in the coming patch that worry me though. I can't recall which ones, but I remember there being a few.

What about the violent changes in GPT? Does anyone have any ideas as to what the heck was going on with that. I mean down to +150 to -50 to +5 to -200 to +263 to -167, it kept doing that. It stayed positive for a few turns at one point, but then went severely negative for a few turns after that! It was "blowing my freakin' mind man!

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Can someone explain specifically how corporations work? Does the headquarters itself provide the gold or is it the city in which the corp is spread? How does the maintenance work? What is the best method for using corps? Should I found them all in the Wall Street city? How do the bonuses offered work (IE production from the steel corp, food from Sid's Sushi)?

 

[Merkinball]

Those are extremely large GPT swings. The only thing I can think of is you have cities celebrating "We love the leader day!" When this happens, those cities pay no maintainance for that turn, so you'll get a positive GPT kick. I don't think that's what happening here though.

The HQ supplies the gold. Every other city puts a drag on the economy of that city (-5 GPT)

So far as bonuses, consult your BTS book. Where to put the HQ? Clearly the Wall Street city. Each city you spam your corporation to is a standard 5 gold per turn for the HQ city. Having the proper financial buildings in your HQ city, including Wall Street, ramps this sum up to 20 GPT.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Good God... I can't imagine why I haven't been spamming corporations before!!! It's like shrine gold on steroids! Use attack subs and spam the corps to all cities! What about the bonuses? Does the HQ city get extra bonuses or the same as a city that only has the corp?

 

[Tennyson]

Corporations cost money in the city they are spread to. This money goes to the headquarters city, but I'm not sure if ALL of it goes there.

I use corporations all the time - using solver's patch - and I found them in my Wall Street city and spread them from there. Under free market they are quite profitable. Under environmentalism they run at a net cost, but the extra food/hammers/culture is sometimes worth it.

In the games where I spread them outside my borders, the money that comes in is pretty darn good. But I usually keep them to myself to keep the benefits for myself.

 

[MrCynical]

Large swings in gpt are quite common with widely spread corporations, since if a foreign civ which you have widely spread one of your corporations to switches to either mercantilism or state property, you lose all income from those branches. Similarly you'll regain it if they switch to a different civic. If you spread a corporation to a large number of foreign civs, you'll therefore see these wild shifts in income whenever someone changes civics.

Someone please explain how these corporations work. How do you spread them effectively? How can you ensure that some .. .. .. .. head civ doesn't ruin your game by spamming them in your city? How can you possibly explain the AI stupidity in voting on environmentalism!?!?!?! alright... vented... some one help please...

Very crudely, your corporation branches in foreign civ produce gold in a way which makes shrines look puny, and domestic branches give a way to convert that gold into whatever you like, as they cost considerable amounts in maintenance (especially without Solver's patch), but generate food, production, culture etc. Corporations are still useful without Solver's patch, but require a lot of care to use (at least in your own cities). While more expensive, it can sometimes be desirable to vote in forced enviromentalism in a corporate heavy strategy, as it locks all civs open to corporations, and prevents them cutting your income by switching to other civics. Particularly with Solver's patch, the additional maintenance costs are usually less than the amount gained by your captive market, plus you get the bonuses of Enviromentalism.

For a civ saturated with foreign corps and none of their own, it is however suicidally stupid to vote in enviromentalism. Unfortunately the AI usually is when it comes to corps. You can spread your corporation effectively simply by "seeding" an executive into a high production city of an AI civ. If they stay in the right civics, they will then merrily spam your corporation to every other city in their empire (this behaviour is not quite as stupid under Solver's patch, but is still very inadvisable).

As to preventing foreign corporations in your cities, mercantilism is one option. State property is inadvisable except in extremely large empires due to the inability to use your domestic corporations, though curiously the HQ continues ot generate gold from foreign branches. In large empires not only does the amount saved in distance maintenance increase, but the ratio of viable foreign branches to domestic branches decreases, making it harder to offset maintenance.

A second option is to get all the corporations yourself - this is rather expensive in great people.

A third is to ensure that the AI would have to shift a competing domestic corporation. One of the attractive points of the Sid's Sushi/Mining Inc combo is it ensures any foreign corporation has to pay 5 times the normal price to expand into your cities, which usually discourages them.

Can someone explain specifically how corporations work? Does the headquarters itself provide the gold or is it the city in which the corp is spread? How does the maintenance work? What is the best method for using corps? Should I found them all in the Wall Street city? How do the bonuses offered work (IE production from the steel corp, food from Sid's Sushi)?

Very simply - The HQ generates 5gpt for every branch of the corporation that exists (in any civ). It should obviously go in your Wall Street city to push your income up to 15gpt per branch. This stays exactly the same regardless of how much the branches cost in maintenance. Competing corporations cannot be founded in the same city, so you couldn't have say Sid's Sushi and Cereal Mills HQs both in the Wall Street city, but frankly there's virtually no point in founding both anyway.

Each branch, and the HQ itself, also processes resources to give some benefit. Sid's Sushi for example gives X (varies with map size) amount of food per clam, crab, fish or rice resource that you own, plus some culture, and costs an amount in maintenance which is also based on the amount of resources processed. This maintenance cost in a reasonably large city is generally much more than the 15gpt generated by the HQ, so domestic branches do not make gold; they provide a way to convert gold into food (and hence research or GPP), production, science etc. Foreign branches provide the same resource processing abilities in an AI civ, but the money still goes to you as you own the HQ, and can be used to offset maintenance costs on domestic branches. Ideally you want at least 2-3 foreign branches per domestic branch (more without Solver's patch, though the upcoming official patch will shift things to be closer to Solver's).

I've written an article on corporation strategies (check the link in my sig) that covers all this in more detail, and which you might find of some interest.