1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Corporations feedback

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Natura, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. Natura

    Natura Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    209
    Since Gazebo has been asking for feedback on the last feature to be added to the CPP, here goes.

    Firstly the system as it exists feels like it slots very neatly into the game. Monopolies tend to show up middle to late game, Corporations show up after monopolies to let you take further advantage of them. Corporations also like lots of trade routes, and late game is when they're most numerous. I didn't feel like corporations were "tacked on" the way they felt in BTS.

    Next, the mechanics themselves. One thing occurred to me quite quickly when playing around with them; Offices reward you for having a trade route with a city that has a franchise, but the cumulative bonus for offices relies on spreading your corporation franchise to as many cities as possible. In other words, typically when a trade route completes and you get a franchise, you want to send your trade unit to another city, until every possible city has a franchise. This means that you rarely get the advantage of sending the unit back to a city with a franchise.

    The modification to the trade UI to show when a franchise is present in a city is excellent. One minor bug I noticed is that it doesn't seem to show up when you spread a franchise to city states. Another was that a city state gave me a quest to build Firaxis Inc when I'd already built Giorgio. Both are minor things however and I'd imagine would be easy to fix. If possible, maybe a small icon could be added over a city, just like a religion, to show when one of your franchises is present there.

    Did I enjoy the system? I felt it was useful, but not hugely so. Even once it was fully up and running and I was generating +10 culture in all cities that had the offices, with extra coming in from specialists, I was heading for the Atomic era (and about to win anyway admittedly) and it didn't feel as if these bonuses were all that earth-shattering at that point in the game. This highlights a fact of late-game that I'm sure we're all familiar with: global yields by this point are gigantic. Late-game buildings have to provide big bonuses before players really notice their impact. Hence percentage-based bonuses make themselves far more felt late-game than a building granting a numeric bonus. This is present in the monopoly system as well; no-one cares about +2 production on resource tiles late game, but +10% science output for the entire empire? Sign me up!

    Given the impact of global corporations on cultural influences, I'd love to see an incorporation of corporations into the tourism system. Something as simple as an additional 33% bonus for having franchises in a majority of a civ's cities would be a great start.

    If anyone else has toyed around with Corporations, post away! Together we'll polish this up and let heartless multinationals do our conquering for us!
     
  2. Strigvir

    Strigvir Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,299
    I had some great start for getting the corporation, but didn't get that far in the end.
     
  3. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,024
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Great feedback. I'll add the tooltip to the CSs in the LUA, and I'll look into adding a franchise notification (probably the little pile of gold icon) under city banners.

    Not sure why you could build a second NW after the first - that's hard-coded to be impossible. Anyways, I'll take a look.

    As far as bonuses for Corporations are concerned, I didn't want to overdo it on the first pass, so if they need buffs, that's an easy fix.

    As far as Tourism is concerned, I'm going to add a new Tenet to each Ideology soon that affects Corporations in some fashion (mostly Tourism-related stuff):

    • Freedom: Coca-Colonization (working title :) ) - Every Franchise in a Foreign Civilization's Cities increases Tourism with that Civilization by 5%.
    • Autocracy: Syndicalism - When you conquer a City, gain a free Corporate Office in this City. Franchises reduce City Defense by 50.
    • Order: National Industry - Corporate Offices reduce foreign Spy power and reduce foreign Tourism bonuses over your Civilization by 5%.

    Also, thoughts on the corp names? I hope the puns, homages make sense. I had fun with that.

    G
     
  4. Delekhan

    Delekhan Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Messages:
    539
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    I found the corporation benefits to be underwhelming so far, with Land-Sea extractors.

    I think corporations would be more fun if their effects resembled that of policies and tenets rather than yet more +x to y thingy. In other words, giving the civ unique capabilities and powers not otherwise available.
     
  5. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    I really don't think any more policies would be a good idea, we already have 9 trees and 3 ideology-pyramids. I understand what you mean but I really think this solution is better, even if it needs more work.
     
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,024
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    The system itself is 'fine,' in that it fills a niche that policies/ideologies do not. it just needs some buffs. Like I said, I didn't want it to be OP out of the gate.

    G
     
  7. Natura

    Natura Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    209
    That's just the thing: I couldn't build another one. It was just the CS was asking me to do it.

    My thinking is that the CS simply chose from a list of wonders that hadn't been built, but because wonders aren't mutually exclusive (except for the Corporation wonders) there was no programming to tell the CS that this was impossible.

    Perhaps "Cultural Imperialism" for the Freedom tenet? :D

    Another option for integration and buffing with Ideologies would be to make the bonuses inherent to each ideology. Ideologies and Corporations both show up in the Modern era, so having ideologies directly affecting Corporations right off the bat would seem to make sense. Basically the buffs you've listed would be the opener. Perhaps each tenet in the tree you choose would provide stacking buffs too, just like in policy trees.

    As for buffs, I say go nuts. Free techs, free policies; late game suffers greatly from slowdown which tends to make it boring unless you spice things up by declaring war on the whole world. The 20th century saw the greatest pace of human technological advancement in history but this has never been reflected in Civ; instead, late-game tech tends to slow down as costs skyrocket. Popping Great Scientists is about the only way to really alleviate this. Having corporations be the motor that drives late game could really revitalize the period, much like BNW revitalized culture with tourism.

    One more thing: I'd like to see Great Merchants have some kind of influence on corporations. It seems a little odd when many of them have the names of great corporate leaders that they can't do anything to affect corporations. My first thought was that they could rush build a corporate HQ, just like a Great Engineer, but I have no idea how complex the coding would be for that. Letting them spread Franchises like a Great Prophet (say, 4 per merchant) could work too (if it's at all possible).
     
  8. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,024
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Ah, I know why the CS issue is happening - I'll fix that.

    I definitely think that the Corporations could use a buff. I'll dwell on it, but feel free to start spitballing ideas here. The current model (franchises boost offices, more offices = more bonuses from franchise on a 'wide' scheme) is what I'd like to stick to.

    Great Merchants could simply create a Franchise in a random CS when expended (or perhaps the CS they do a gold mission to). Whatever it is, I'd want to tie it into what the AI already knows/does.


    G
     
  9. TeeInKay

    TeeInKay Warlord

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    204
    I like your idea of giving them a franchise from a gold mission if you have a corporation. That sounds nifty. And the names are great :)
     
  10. Funak

    Funak Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2013
    Messages:
    9,127
    I was thinking of Great merchants earlier and how we never actually fixed them. I remember a suggestion being up to give X turns of WLtKD in all cities when you use the gold-mission, how hard would that be to add?
     
  11. ecgopher

    ecgopher Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    161
    If corporations gave bonuses to towns and villages, that's be one way to buff them.
     
  12. Brokenbone

    Brokenbone Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    405
    A small piece of feedback, as I have only done a Corporation once in a game so far. I played Indonesia as I figured on guaranteed monopoly for the Trader Sid spice co., just due to Nutmeg, Pepper and Cloves all over the place.

    I played a YnAEMP so I knew I'd have a hell of a lot of islands... turns out at the time corporations rolled around I was eligible for both Trader Sid's (for obvious spicy reasons), but also LandSea (as it turns out I had 52% of the world's Crab as well).

    It turns out that Trader Sid's was big on Caravansaries and land based trade routes. My capital Jakarta was pretty obviously on an island. All my trade routes were unfortunately Cargo Ship based. I know I was still getting the benefit of +gold on monopoly resources, and Franchises all over the place popping up... but I guess Trader Sids almost had an anti-synergy for an archipelago type nation.

    Not a complaint, this was fine. Again, if you pick the civ who is "guaranteed" to be eligible for one of the corporations, doesn't mean that the given corporation has to actually work well for them. Besides which, other map scripts may well have stuck Indonesia on some continent or other, with all kinds of land routes and enjoy those Trader Sid benefits of enhanced land route distances, +buffs to Caravansaries etc.
     
  13. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,789
    I wish the benefits from each corporation were listed somewhere easier to check than going through the civilopedia. Perhaps its because I don't play with EUI (too much stuff for me), but it would be great if the bonuses (boni?) were listed on the HQ and offices.

    Also, Autocracy should only reduce the combat strength of foreign cities right? Not their own?
     
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,024
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    You've looked at the economy overview, right?
    G
     
  15. Brokenbone

    Brokenbone Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    405
    Forgot to mention I also like the overview screen from hitting F2. Lot of good info.

    A second small piece of feedback, I am pretty sure the "sad" kind of alarm tone you get if someone snaked you on a Wonder race, is also what sounds when your Franchises take hold. This is to say, I heard a negative tone and went to check out what went wrong, but it was actually always associated with what I think is a good news item.

    Maybe the Franchises count as wonders and therefore "someone other than you getting a wonder, means this sound is gonna play"...?

    Not a critique, just an oddity that got my attention a few times.
     
  16. Strigvir

    Strigvir Emperor

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,299
    Yeah, the sound of stolen wonder doesn't fit there.
     
  17. Atlas627

    Atlas627 Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,789
    Mostly I hate having to look at the civilopedia when deciding which Corp to build. Does this help that? I'll go look at it.
     
  18. ecgopher

    ecgopher Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    161
    I agree with this. It can be a lot of back and forth. The biggest annoyance, IMO, is that you have to look at the HQ and office building page for each Corp, so it's twice as many pages to be flipping between.
     
  19. hokath

    hokath King

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Messages:
    954
    Location:
    London
    I just reached corporations for the first time today! I'll post something when I'm done.
     
  20. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    18,024
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Little Rock
    Would it be useful to have a section in the 'game concepts' part of the civilopedia with the info for all corporations in it?

    G
     

Share This Page