Correctly spelled Cities and Leaders

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Kirejara, Jun 30, 2016.

  1. Kirejara

    Kirejara King

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    So far every city name and leader name is spelled the american way in the previous civ.

    This is esspecially irritating if you live in the real country and/or if you know this country but different names for the cities.

    Examples for cities are:

    The Haque = Den Haag
    Lisbon = Lisboa
    Munich = München
    Cologne = Köln
    Brunswick = Braunschweig

    What makes the last one slightly bizarr, is that there are several small towns and city districts called Brunswick in Germany. I allways wonder how they translate them...

    On the other side the american tonque does not translate its own foreign city names into english (San Francisco is not called Holly Francis ;) ).

    The same applies to many leaders, who sometimes becomes nearly irrecognizable for the native speakers:

    Examples:

    Catherine = Ekaterina
    Frederick = Friedrich
    Willem van Oranje = William of Orange (he became a fruit?)
    Henry = Henrique

    To be fair in the german language are also most often royal names turned into there german counterpart (Katharina = Ekaterina).

    I personally would favor if they would use the native names of cities and leaders in Civ6.

    BTW I personally play also the english version of the Civ games, as the translation in the german versions so far are either weird or (in the first two games) totally inscrutable. ;)

    What do you think?
     
  2. nunor

    nunor King

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    Every language does this. That's just the way those cities/people are known in English. I don't see the problem.

    By the same logic, the German civilization should be called Deutschland, Spain should be España, etc.

    If native speakers of other languages are playing the game in English, chances are they'll be familiar with the English counterparts of their city names.
     
  3. DudewiththeFood

    DudewiththeFood King

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    I agree with nunor. If you play the English version of the game then everything should be known by its most common name in English (which in case OP was wondering, San Francisco is simply known as San Francisco. Nobody calls it St. Francis).

    If other languages like German seem "weird" to a native German speaker then that is a problem with the game - not something that needs a feature.
     
  4. Kirejara

    Kirejara King

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    Then at least I hope that Civ6 has a working editor like in Civ3 and unlike the catastrophic excuse of an editor in Civ4 (I have not played Civ5). So that I am able to fix the names by myself.
     
  5. DudewiththeFood

    DudewiththeFood King

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    In that case, this may not even be an issue. I couldn't say for sure as I've never played Civ 5 with German localisation and even if I did, I couldn't tell you whether or not it made sense but even if it didn't, modding things like text is one of the easiest things in Civ 5.
     
  6. Zaarin

    Zaarin Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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    My only complaint about spelling is that they don't use the modern Anglicization of certain names (for example, why do they still use Montezuma when the modern Anglicization is Moctezuma?). I personally would love to see non-Anglicized names, but I also have a strong interest in linguistics that I don't expect other people to share.
     
  7. nunor

    nunor King

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    There could be an option to toggle between English names and original names, like Pharaoh had.
     
  8. Zaarin

    Zaarin Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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    To be honest (despite the fact that mods never worked properly for me offline in Civ5) I think this is the sort of thing best handled by mods. The bulk of the general public will probably want Anglicized (or nativized) names; those of us who would like to see accurate native names are probably best served by a mod. Here's hoping mods work reliably offline this time around. :crazyeye: Plus if a mod is modular one can pick and choose what one wants native and what one wants Anglicized; I'm more okay with Lisbon vs. Lisboa than I am with Thebes vs. Wasat, for example.
     
  9. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Note that every localization does this.
    (If you play on the French localization, then you'll get the French names for every city in the world)
     
  10. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    The rule of using the spelling of cities/leaders that matches the spelling used in the country of the civ isn't exactly applicable or simple for a lot of the civs in the game. A lot places don't use alphabets or use different alphabets (which in theory could be used, but would be difficult for people). Some civs don't correspond to contemporary nations because they span multiple nations. Some civs don't have any relation to the language that is currently spoken in the contemporary nation. And some nations (and civs) use multiple languages.

    In the end, this rule would only be applicable to western/central European civs (except possibly Celts and Rome and certain modern nations, too) and modern nations in the Americas. Maybe 1/4 of the civs in the game - less if you consider that America and England wouldn't change anyway.
     
  11. Zaarin

    Zaarin Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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    Why wouldn't this apply to the Celts or Rome? With Rome, just replace "Rome" with "Roma," and replace any <j> with <i> and any <w> or <v> with <u>: Velitrae => Uelitrae, Julius => Iulius. I suppose the problem with Civ5's Celts is the modern city list, but if the Celts used ancient cities like they should have...

    Also, regarding languages with their own alphabet, there are accepted conventions of Romanization for most languages. For example, Cyrillic &#1052;&#1086;&#1089;&#1082;&#1074;&#1072;&#769; is transliterated Moskva (Anglicized Moscow). It's worth recalling that many names that were known in the Medieval or Renaissance periods have passed into English via Medieval Latin, and many that were known in the Enlightenment via French.
     
  12. m15a

    m15a Emperor

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    Rome could work with Latin as long as the city list is limited to cities that were established by Latin speaking Romans or which were spelled the same in Latin and by whoever established the city (and same restrictions with Celts if you choose one language for that civ). I don't know enough about Roman history to know if that would make a good city list, so that's why I wrote "possibly".

    There are accepted conventions for spelling names with a different or no alphabet, but English names of places is also a convention - both options are "correct" in that sense while still being incorrect in the sense that it isn't the way people that live there write the city name.

    I wouldn't mind if Civ VI used those spelling conventions instead (although there are still issues because multiple languages are used in some places), but I was just pointing out that this idea of "correct" spelling isn't so clearly correct. It only seems that way because the OP happens to be in an area where there is some clearly correct option (although maybe even some Germans, Dutch, French, etc. would disagree).
     
  13. Zaarin

    Zaarin Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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    All good points. I agree that using conventional Romanizations isn't any more or less correct than conventional Anglicizations. Though for some cases (particularly Egypt) I wish they'd use something closer to the native names; Egypt's city list as it stands looks like Greece 2.0 (which, with a Ptolemy as their ruler now, may not be inappropriate...).
     
  14. Reboot

    Reboot Privateer

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    At least they fixed Peking and now it's Beijing.

    It's inherently difficult to translate all the names correctly. It becomes even more difficult with the civilizations that aren't even around anymore.

    Hey, they allow you to rename cities, so that's a good compromise. For civ leaders it's obviously harder to incorporate customizations.
     
  15. pholtz

    pholtz King

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    I like the idea of having all names in their "local" language. The developers went as far as having the leaders speak in their local languages, this would just add more flavor.

    "Paris" would need to be changed to "Paris". Hmm, in my head they were pronounced differently :crazyeye:

    Having an option to switch to the users language would probably be best for those that would be confused.
     
  16. Iapetus303

    Iapetus303 Warlord

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    Isn't changing the names in CivIV just a matter of opening up city name info file in a text editor, and changing the name of each of the cities in whatever your prefered langauge is?

    CIV4GameTextInfos_Cities.xml (Vanilla)
    Spoiler :
    Code:
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
    <!-- edited with XMLSPY v2004 rel. 2 U (http://www.xmlspy.com) by XMLSPY 2004 Professional Ed. Release 2, Installed Multi + SMP for 3 users (Firaxis Games) -->
    <!-- Sid Meier's Civilization 4 -->
    <!-- Copyright Firaxis Games 2005 -->
    <!-- -->
    <!-- Game Text Cities -->
    <Civ4GameText xmlns="http://www.firaxis.com">
    	<TEXT>
    		<Tag>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_WASHINGTON</Tag>
    		<English>Washington</English>
    		<French>
    			<Text>Washington</Text>
    			<Gender>Male</Gender>
    			<Plural>0</Plural>
    		</French>
    		<German>
    			<Text>Washington</Text>
    			<Gender>Male</Gender>
    			<Plural>0</Plural>
    		</German>
    		<Italian>
    			<Text>Washington</Text>
    			<Gender>Female</Gender>
    			<Plural>0</Plural>
    		</Italian>
    		<Spanish>
    			<Text>Washington</Text>
    			<Gender>Female</Gender>
    			<Plural>0</Plural>
    		</Spanish>
    	</TEXT>
    


    CIV4GameText_Cities_BTS.xml (BTS)
    Spoiler :
    Code:
    <?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
    <!-- edited with XMLSPY v2004 rel. 2 U (http://www.xmlspy.com) by XMLSPY 2004 Professional Ed. Release 2, Installed Multi + SMP for 3 users (Firaxis Games) -->
    <!-- Sid Meier's Civilization 4 -->
    <!-- Copyright Firaxis Games 2005 -->
    <!-- -->
    <!-- Game Text - New -->
    <Civ4GameText xmlns="http://www.firaxis.com">
    	<TEXT>
    		<Tag>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_PRAGUE</Tag>
    		<English>Prague</English>
    		<French>Prague</French>
    		<German>Prag</German>
    		<Italian>Praga</Italian>
    		<Spanish>Praga</Spanish>
    	</TEXT>
    	<TEXT>
    		<Tag>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_VIENNA</Tag>
    		<English>Vienna</English>
    		<French>Vienne</French>
    		<German>Wien</German>
    		<Italian>Vienna</Italian>
    		<Spanish>Viena</Spanish>
    	</TEXT>
    	<TEXT>
    		<Tag>TXT_KEY_CITY_NAME_FLORENCE</Tag>
    		<English>Florence</English>
    		<French>Florence</French>
    		<German>Florenz</German>
    		<Italian>Firenze</Italian>
    		<Spanish>Florencia</Spanish>
    	</TEXT>
    
     
  17. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    It's an English language game and it uses the English language version of the names. Those names are often driven by accidents of history, but I don't see a problem with that.
     

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