Cossacks

[kristopherb]

the other day i decided on russain game (for a change)and i decided to make use of cossacks and it went better then normal.but my question is cossacks normaly as good?
my tactic is to use riflemen to start my invasion spree and hardly use mounted units.

 

[Napalm102]

Cosacks are awesome in vanila Civ IV, nothing beats them until infantry/machine guns.

In Warlord Cossacks have the same strength as normal cavalry so they are not as good, but they retain their +50% vs mounted units bonus, so when you play as Russians you can forget about riflemen, just have an army made of Cosacks/Grenadiers/Cannons.

 

[CivDude86]

Won't you still need rifles to defend against their rifles?

 

[Khamul]

Won't you still need rifles to defend against their rifles?

Not necessarily. Cossacks promoted against gunpowder units should do nicely with enemy rifles.

 

[Napalm102]

To defend against their rifles use grenadiers, they have bonus vs. rifles, especially if you give them pinch promotion on top of that.

 

[druidravi]

You are too late in getting cossacks if you are attacking with rifles. If you beeline to cossacks before enemy gets rifles, you can make merry taking cities with just cossacks without even reducing city defences . Unlike for other civilizations it wouldn't matter much even if you trade military tradition around since your cossacks can eat cavalry for breakfast.

One popular way of getting cossacks fast is to beeline to Liberalism fast with Great Scientist bulbing and then taking nationalism as free tech. Research Gunpowder, Military tradition and you can start pumping out those cossacks.

 

[antonhz]

Would be nice to read what level of difficulty people are playing with their strategies.

 

[_alphaBeta_]

To defend against their rifles use grenadiers, they have bonus vs. rifles, especially if you give them pinch promotion on top of that.

Keep in mind the grenadier's bonus vs. rifleman is only when attacking. Putting a bunch of grenadiers in a city and waiting for an attack is a bad idea.

They're better served attacking cities, than defending. Or better yet, promote all of your city raider maceman to grenadiers - packs a powerful punch.

 

[Orion071]

Would be nice to read what level of difficulty people are playing with their strategies.

I just finished a Monarch game where I did exactly as was described above: Beelined Liberalism with Scientists, took Nationalism, researched Gunpowder and Military Tradition, WAR! Standard Panega and no one else even had Gunpowder. Researched Chemistry to upgrade some CR Macemen to Grenadiers and went to town. Domination victory in 1616. Eventually my last opponent had some Cavalry of his own, but that's pathetic against Cossacks. No one ever got Rifles to counter them, but I had Grenadiers anyway. I never got as far as Cannons, but Trebs work OK too. The only time I even needed to knock down the cultural defense was when the city was on a hill or it was over 60%.

 

[Antilogic]

I tend to use mounted units more, but I like to keep rifles around as well. I've found the new cossack to be quite an effective anti-pillager as well--the annoying AI will send its cavalry around in your territory to try and pillage, and your cossacks can tear them a new one. Plus, when a dumb AI stacks up a dozen cavalry and a dozen cannons and sets them next to your city, just use the cossack that gets a bonus against the whole lot of them to do some damage.


EDIT: I am a Prince/Monarch player, for reference.

 

[antonhz]

I just finished a Monarch game where I did exactly as was described above: Beelined Liberalism with Scientists, took Nationalism, researched Gunpowder and Military Tradition, WAR! Standard Panega and no one else even had Gunpowder. Researched Chemistry to upgrade some CR Macemen to Grenadiers and went to town. Domination victory in 1616. Eventually my last opponent had some Cavalry of his own, but that's pathetic against Cossacks. No one ever got Rifles to counter them, but I had Grenadiers anyway. I never got as far as Cannons, but Trebs work OK too. The only time I even needed to knock down the cultural defense was when the city was on a hill or it was over 60%.

Just read your comment and realised that I did exactly that in my game last night! Exept i was Roman. Never got any use out of Praetorians though as I was buzy improving my territory! But with my main warunit city pumping cats before cavalry got around and once i got cavalry - went all cities pumping cavs and swept my continent like you described. Was just thinking that its such a shame I played Continents map and chose Romans - and got no use of them whatsoever.

 

[kniteowl]

If your playing as Catherine, The Imperialistic Trait will help you gain highly promoted cossacks. Beeline to MT as usual.

In your Military Production City Build Heroic Epic and West Point, Barrack, Stables, Switch to Vassalage and Theocracy Civics plus 2 Settled Great Generals in that City and you'll have 17XP Cossack which are level 5unit capable of gaining Blitz Promotion.

For this Strategy you require at least 3 Great Generals, The 1st one needed for a level 6 unit. It's not difficult to get a GG with Imperialistic trait, but combine this with Great Wall and you'll be running in GGs... if you settle 3 or 4 in that Military Production city, you won't have to run Military Civics and your economy will be better off, IF you can get that many.

 

[antonhz]

From experience, you guys really think that ONE specialized military producing city is enough to provide a viable army &/or keep computer from attacking you?
On Monarch?

 

[antonhz]

please erase!

 

[DrewBledsoe]

From experience, you guys really think that ONE specialized military producing city is enough to provide a viable army &/or keep computer from attacking you?
On Monarch?

Depends on size of map, and total number of cities. If you only have say 9 total cities, then yes one military producing city is probably enough. With say 15 cities you'll need 2, and say 21 cities 3. Pls note these are very rough estimations. It also depends on your political standing, allies potential enemies etc.

Again, it depends upon your neighbours and game. In one game I had Genghis and Monty in a perm alliance, whose only purpose was to attack, attack attack. They had 30ish cities between them, and I had roughly 10 of my 30 cities pumping out units, just to stay ahead in the power graph.

Cossacks:- again down to play style. Personally I'm in the process of changing things, so that cavalry / cossacks are only available after rifling (clue, what are those weapons they are using, ah yes they are rifles.). Seems to me a complete oversight to allow mounted rifles before you get the footsoldier version (and the technology even)...and then to compensate making cavalry / cossacks very slightly more powerful.

Anyways, I prefer to get all the fighting done by the end of the medieval period .......(obviously impossible on some maps)

 

[kniteowl]

Cossacks:- again down to play style. Personally I'm in the process of changing things, so that cavalry / cossacks are only available after rifling (clue, what are those weapons they are using, ah yes they are rifles.). Seems to me a complete oversight to allow mounted rifles before you get the footsoldier version (and the technology even)...and then to compensate making cavalry / cossacks very slightly more powerful.

And all this time I thought they were muskets, because you required gunpowder to build them... lol

 

[DrewBledsoe]

And all this time I thought they were muskets, because you required gunpowder to build them... lol

I suppose it's what weapon you take the cavalry / cossack to be using. Firing a flintlock musket either a ) with any accuracy or b) practically (reloading on the move?? etc) from horseback, meant that it just wasn't used. There were some small specialist muskets, but cavalry were almost always armed with lance or sword, and pistol, which continued right up to the 19th century, when the advent of repeating rifles meant it practical to arm cavalry with rifles.

Rifling itself, is thought to have been first invented in the 15th century, but it wasn't till 350 years later that it actually became even slightly commonplace, and the "rifle" was developed.

 

[Dominico]

I just got spanked by the cossacks in my game. I was doing ok when it was me and america vs Russia. Then america decided to make peace and isolate. Of course I had nothing to give russia to make peace (cept a city)

In the end I had 3 nations kicking my ass, Japan thought they would take a slice, and Greece just for a laugh came to kill me.

I had to give Russia a city to stand a chance, but i was wiped from history

So what im trying to say is wow, i think cossacks are pretty amazing.

 

[CivSetä]

Liberalism -> Nationalism and researching Military tradition works at least on emperor. If you are lucky, you can even trade gunpowder at right time, so you don't research it by yourself as you need to on lower levels. Start on your most advanced neighbour and you should be able to wipe away whole continent (on continents map) before others can effectively counter you.

About tactics, have one stack of catapults to bomb down defences of biggest cities. Smaller cities, with defence of 40% or less, can be later handled without bombardment. Move on next AI as soon as you have finished first opponent, while you still have the edge.

 

[kniteowl]

I just got spanked by the cossacks in my game. I was doing ok when it was me and america vs Russia. Then america decided to make peace and isolate. Of course I had nothing to give russia to make peace (cept a city)

In the end I had 3 nations kicking my ass, Japan thought they would take a slice, and Greece just for a laugh came to kill me.

I had to give Russia a city to stand a chance, but i was wiped from history

So what im trying to say is wow, i think cossacks are pretty amazing.

It appears to be like you didn't have enough friends, try to balance out the number of enemies and friend you have on the battlefield. Reading this article here http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/conquest_diplomacy.php may help you