COTM 17 First Spoiler - Ancient Age, Contacts, Continent Map


GOTM Staff
Jun 28, 2002
Only for a while
It's been hard to wait all of yesterday before I could open this thread... :ack:

This is the first spoiler thread for COTM17 - Celts.
In order to read and post in this thread you need to:
- Have completed the Ancient Age (i.e., be able to research a MA tech)
- Have gained contact with the four neighbouring civs
- Have a (reasonably) complete knowledge of the map of the starting "continent"

Please, do not discuss anything outside the scope of this thread (later events, other continent(s), and similar, including any suicide galley routes); dedicated spoilers will be opened in the coming weeks.

Well, then -how did it go in the ancient times? Did you stay at home and entertain peaceful relations with your neighbours -holding your Gallic Swordsmen :eek:?
Or have you already wiped out all other nations?


Nov 24, 2003
Open, domination

This seems to be the best AA of a XOTM for me (but maybe thats just because the AA was very loooong).

I sent the worker to the wines (irrigate and road) and settled in place.
Initial build in Entremont: Warrior, settler, warrior, granary (the mostly settlers and a few spears in between).
Startet research and Alphabet at 100% (going for early republic).

My second city (3100BC) was founded on the east coas not far from Entremont, and the third city (2110BC) on the west coast NE of entremont. These three cities all build granaries eventually and produced all but one or two of my settlers in the AA.
Some dates:
1650BC settled my fifth city
975BC settled my tenth city
670BC settled my fifteenth city (final city on home island/continent).

Trade and research
I did very little trading throughout the AA because i wanted to keep my neighbours as backwards as possible (to aid my GS). The only techs i got through trading was Bronze and Iron Working and Alphabet (met the romans when i had 10 turns left to research it).

After getting the slingshot i researched Literature at a slow pace (while starting a prebuild for GLib) then turned off research throughout the AA.

Some dates:
3150BC: Meet Rome, trade pottery and ceremonial burial for Alhpabet + Bronze Working
2150BC: discover writing, start COL at 90%
1470BC discpver COL, start Phil at 80%
1250BC discover Phil, get Republic, revolt, start research Literature at 30%
1225BC republic in place

3450BC: Meet persia
3150BC: Meet Rome, trade pottery and ceremonial burial for Alhpabet + Bronze Working
2110BC: curragh meet zulu
1950BC: curragh meets greek

1000BC stats
9 towns, 21 citizens
1 temple, 2 granaries
3 settlers, 12 workers, 5 warriors, 6 spears, 2 curraghs
All first level techs + iron working, writing, COL, Phil and Republic
Contacts: Rome, Persia, Greece, Zulu
224 gold

Both rome and persia declared war on me early on because i wouldn't give them my hard earned techs for free, but there was never much action on my continent (mainly because the didnt have Map Making until later, and when they finally got it they decided to sail all the way round my continent to land their troops on the montain near Entremont, making for a rather slow and obvious 'invasion). They gave me quite a bit of war happiness though (making up for the lack of luxuries).
In 390 BC i finished the Great Library and got Map Making (and others), this enabled me to build galleys and start an invasion (prior to this i had build around 14 vet warriors and a few spears, choosing not to hook up iron).

The question was: who to invade first.
The romans: didn't fancy fighting the numerous legions i cuold see wandering around. Also their Island was pretty small, so i would have to fight most of them right away.
The greeks: they were furthest away from my capital and wouldn't provide any useful cities, besides, the hoplites also scared me off.
The zulus: having no doubt a lot of impies defending their cities would probably kill a lot of my GS, better wait until i have knights.
The persians: I dont like fighting their immortals, but they have the weakest defending units, and hopefully my mobile GS will get the better of them. Also they have a rather large continent and the cities where I start my invasion are small and have little culture, allowing me to get a stronghold there early on. In addition to this the persians are tech pacesetters, and my attack will hopefully put a stop to that.

So in 230BC i sign alliance with Rome and Greece (merely to keep them occupied) against the Persians and start the invasion (kicking of my golden age).
190 BC: capture great lighthouse in Arbela.
100 AD: have taken 6 persian cities, their capital will fall shortly, but that will have to be for another spoiler as I enter the MA at this point (thanks to the GLib).
No great leaders yet.

Haven't met anyone on the 'other' continent yet, but they seem to be ahead of 'us' in research and have built most of the AA wonders.

Più Freddo

From space, earth is blue
Jan 26, 2005
Vienna, Austria
Class: Open

Goal: Fast domination

Starting out

After moving the Worker east, I saw no reason to move the Settler and
so founded Entremont on the spot. I have two contradictory research
goals, Iron Working and The Republic, and also two contradictory build
interests, Settlers and Gallic Swordsmen. Since the latter aren't
available from the start anyway I decided to start with researching
towards The Republic and creating a six-turn combo Settler factory in
Entremont. Building Warriors appear to make sense, since they can
first act Military Police and protection agains Barbarians and then be
upgraded to Swordsmen. We also need an early Warrior to go search for
neighbours so we can trade Technologies. Research Alphabet on full.

Worker moves

I decided to first mine a Bonus Grassland and then put one load of
timber into the Granary and the second into the first Settler. Cutting
down the only forest by the river while anticipating a six-turn
factory (where a forest could be worked on every turn) was a hard
decision, but as it turned out we had a surplus of shields and could
work other commerce-rich tiles wasting some food.

irrigate Wine
road Wine
mine BG
cut Forest
cut Forest
road BG​

Build order in Entremont

I started out working the Bonus Grassland by the river and changed
over on the turn where the Wine was irrigated. This created a shield
deficit which was then payed back by the bonus Forest worked on
population growth next turn. The Warrior was thus delayed one turn
compared to working the Bonus Grassland all the time, but population
growth came earlier and we could net one gold from Wealth.

Wealth one turn

Scientific Progress

2630 BC Alphabet
1475 BC Code of Laws
1830 BC trade Warrior Code, The Wheel
1600 BC trade Bronze Working
1500 BC trade Iron Working, Masonry
1300 BC Philosophy, The Republic, trade Map Making, Mathematics, Horseback Riding
1275 BC Republic
1100 BC Iron, start upgrading
510 BC Middle Ages​

I gifted the Greeks into the Middle Ages, they got Feudalism. Persia
researched Polytheism as fast as I did and got Engineering.


Barbarian attacks were something of a nuisance. Having a few Warriors
payed off also in terms of pots of 25 gold.

4000 BC Entremont
2590 BC Alesia
2470 BC Lugdunum
2070 BC Camulodunum
1725 BC Richborough
1550 BC Verulamium
1475 BC Gergovia
1350 BC Augustodurum
1300 BC Agedincum
1225 BC Eboracum
1050 BC Burdigala
975 BC Cataractonium
925 BC Lapurdum
800 BC Ratae Coritanorum​

Diplomatic Events

Trying to find the neighbours turned out to be much more difficult and
slow than expected. Curraghs had to aid the lone Warrior.

2030 BC Greece
1830 BC Persia
1600 BC Rome
1050 BC Zulu​

Quick Start Challenge Results

11 Towns
31 Citizens
3 Settlers
10 Workers
4 Warriors
5 Gallic Swordsmen
1 Curragh
3 Galleys

Missing Construction, Currency, Literature, Polytheism and Monarchy.

Roman War

In 1050 BC I landed the first two Gallic Swordsmen on the Roman
continent, which was not completely claimed by Roman culture. While I
was waiting for a few more mines to finish before kicking off the
Golden Age, Persia surprisingly in 850 BC demanded The Republic and on
my refusal declared war. War happiness came in handy. I gifted Rome
The Republic, declared war and captured Antium. The Persians never
made it to my island and at some point I sold them peace.

The Golden Age was used to capture all of Rome and produce masses of
Gallic Swordsmen and a few Galleys. Entremont produced a Swordsman
every two turns at 20 spt. I made and broke two peace deals each
giving two cities to increase the pace. I met Spearmen, Warriors,
Archers and two or three Legionaries but no counter-attack. As often
on Emperor level, I had some moments of improbable outcomes of
attacks. Especially Elite troops were out of luck and tended to die on
their always easy targets. Promotions were very rare and my upgraded
regular Warriors mostly stayed regular.

Unfortunately, the Romans snuck out a Galley towards Persia towards
the end of the war, so the Persians learned of my treacherous ways.

A New Era, A New War

As I entered the Middle Ages, I captured the last Roman city and
landed my troops on the Persian continent. As the new era dawned, I
killed the Roman Settler-Warrior pair outside Hamadan, destroying the
Romans, declared war on the Persians and captured the city itself.

With eight Gallic Swordsmen in a city on the south-western tip of the
Persian island, I'm luring the Immortals into the cold, cold killing
ground of the Persian tundra and picking them off one by one. There are
no Horsemen. Little does Xerxes care, that in the mean time, other
troops are shipped from the Roman island towards the northern part of


Aug 5, 2005
The Netherlands
Open, probably going for space.

I settled on the spot and went to research to Republic max speed.

2070 Make friends with Persia
1990 Writing
1790 Make friends with Zululand
1525 Code of Laws
1500 Make friends with Greece
1325 Philosophy
1325 Republic through slingshot
1275 Celtic republic is born!
1250 Trade with greece: writing + pottery -> Iron Working + Masonry + Mysticism + 118 gold
1250 Trade with zululand: Masonry -> Horseback Riding + 55 gold
1225 Make friends with Rome
1100 Literature
1000 Mathematics
Inbetween Persia demanded something, I refused, they declare
825 Peacetrade Philosophy -> Mapmaking + 100 gold
775 Currency
610 Construction
Around this time I apperantly got a speeding ticket of some kind, since nobody had researched Polytheism yet... So I had to do it myself, delaying MA a bit... :S
490 Polytheism, enter MA

Gifted the scientific AI's into the MA, and both got Monotheism... So another slight setback... Traded Monotheism from Greece. A lot of AI's demanded and declared war all the time... I was quite happy with some war happiness now and then :D

Things went downhill from here(as things go downhill for me a lot during early middle ages in game of the months), but that is for another spoiler.


Sep 18, 2005
Open, diplomacy

Well, this is my first XOTM, and eventually my first victory at emperor level, so i played without taking much risk: main aim was to avoid wars and keep any AI from becoming a superpower.


Entremont is founded in 4000BC, and start a warrior, while the worker moves to the wine, to irrigate then road. Research is set to alphabet, to go straight for republic and enhance research.
After a few move with the warrior, feeling an isolated start, i risk a worker as second built, then granary and settler. After that, Entremont becomes a 6 turn factory (at least, as soon as BG are mined), building warriors in between settlers. The second worker go to the forest to help the construction of the granary, while the first begin roading/mining the BG.

Alesia is founded in 2550BC, on the north coast, and other cities follow in a 4-ring, all on the coast (to hopefully take advantage of all those coast tiles to improve research pace):
2250: Lugdunum to the S-E
1950: Camulodunum to the N-W
1750: Richborough to the S
1600: Verulanium to the W (at distance 5, by error...)
1450: Gergovia to the S-W

Those cities concentrate either on building worker (mainly roading, to improve research) or a minimal army (barb control, and not looking too obvious a prey for the AI).

Then, Celts settlers are sent across the island to build
1250: Augustodurom
1100: Agedicum
900: Eboracum
900: Burdigolum

(2 more cities will be built later to complete colonization, but while we are already in the MA).

Contacts and research

The romans are quickly met by my wandering warrior, as they settle Pompei in sight of our coast. They will never be of any help in the technological effort though, and quickly fell backwards.

As soon as Alphabet is learnt and Lugdunum settled, a curragh is constructed, that will meet the Persians, the Greek, and finally the Zulu, while mapping most of the coast of our "continent".
The persians are tech leader at the moment, until the understanding of Philosophy brings the Celts to create the first Republic. Trading Code of Law and Philosophy brings all the unknown techs, leaving only Litterature, Currency, Polytheism and Monarchy to be researched. Effort are sent to litterature, for libraries to be constructed across our island. Harbours follow, and soon, luxuries begin to come from all 4 neighbours.

In 1000BC, the Celts have a monopoly on Litterature and the Republic, and begin working on Currency. Persians are helpful again in researching Polytheism, while we turn our efforts on construction. An exchange bring us into the MA, where our rival and partner follows us.

Persians, Greek and Zulus will all, at some point, extort a tech from me, and as i do not want to push them to war (and, at that point, have nothing against increasing the tech pace), they get what they want.
Later in the AA, and through most of the game, they will be kept happy through luxury trading. The Greek also agree early on on a ROP that will last until election day.

Up to that point, world politic has been pretty will not stay that way for long...

(Next time, i really have to take notes...can't remember any of the dates...)


Sep 23, 2005
Open, going for space


I really started off quickly but then didn't build any more settlers. Towards the end of AA I rocketed off 5 within 7 turns of each other.

4000 B.C Entremont settled in place.

3100 B.C Alesia founded on coast next to both BGs E of Entremont.

2390 B.C Lugdunum built on coast near whale NW of Entremont.

1990 B.C Camouldunum founded S of wines NE of Entremont.

1650 B.C Richborough founded on iron S of Entremont.

1350 B.C Verulamium settled SE of tobacco opposite Lugdunum.

Note at the end of AA I had 5 settlers going to make cities.


A curragh was used to find everyone but Rome as warrior found no landbridges and was lucky to spot a Rome warrior to the W.

2630 Meet Persia
2510 Meet Rome
2470 Meet Zulu
2270 Meet Greece

I was lucky to get contacts early because warrior had spotted borders up North and as curragh went there it spotted a Persian spear and Zulu Warriors.


I got a good MA date of 690 B.C because of so much trading. I did NOT have the Glib.

4000 Work on Alpha 100% for slingshot.
2750 Alpha
2630 BW, Masonry (trade)
2510 WC (trade)
2470 Wheel (trade)
1870 Writing
1750 Iron Working (trade)
1475 Horse Rides (trade
1375 Code of Laws
1175 Philo, get Republic :D Mystiscm, Math, Map Making (trade)
800 Currency (researched) Construction (trade)
690 Polytheism

QSC Stats

6 cities, 19 pop, Iron, Horses, Wines, 7 warriors, 6 workers, 1 curragh, 1 galley, 2 gallics (making more!) In Republic, 5 temples, 3 barracks.

Missing techs
Monarchy, Polytheism, Construction, Lit, and Currency.


Greece- 346
Persia- 343
Rome- 335
Zulu- 310
Celts- 302:sad:

Hope for a good MA!!


Hall of Fame Staff
Feb 2, 2003
My first COTM for several months now that I have a bit more time to play again. Comments about players who don't post have been noted and so this is my first write up in a spoiler for quite a while :)

Open class. Goal Diplo or Space-undecided.

I decided to research Alphabet first. This turned out to be a good choice as it gave me early access to curraghs.

Early builds
I decided to not risk a really early granary build so I went for 2 warriors, a second worker (I find this useful in high food starts), a settler another warrior and then finally a granary. After this it was settlers. This kept unit support and lux tax down and my second city was placed to share the wines and get curraghs out for contacts. This city built three boats early on.

Trying to shout across the water didn't work so my contacts came from curraghs.
2310 Meet Persia
2030 Meet Rome
1950 Meet Zulu
1625 Meet Greeks

Research dates/tech trades
I did not trade any techs until I had gained multiple contacts in order to keep the prices down. I was happy to trade techs that might keep up the research rate except of course those that might put the Rep slingshot as risk.
2710 Alphabet
1990 Writing
1950 With three contacts known, I traded with Zulu (Alphabet given to them for The Wheel, Bronze Working and 10g) and Persia (Give them Alpha and Pott for WC, IW and 79g). At this stage I still had monopolies on Writing and CB. Persia had Masonry and HBR but I was only dealing in techs that several civs knew. Monopoly techs are not good value for money.
1625 Give CB to Persia for Mas and 12g. Then swap Mas for HBR with Zulu and then pick up some more barb hut cash from the other two giving CB to Rome for 50g and Pottery to Greece for 35g.
1525 CoL
1350 Phil and Republic
1100 Literature. Then trade Writing and HBR for Maths and 42g from Greece. Rome gives MM and 42g for CoL. Swap CoL with Greeks for Myst and sell Myst to Persia for a small sum of cash as they have nearly researched it themselves anyway.

By 1000BC I was researching Currency and still had Construction and Poly to get to enter the MA. 12 cities, 24 citizens, 10 workers, 2 settlers, 12 warriors and a couple of buildings.

Between the end of the QSC period and the start of the MA I played a peaceful builder game. I filled the island with towns and built more workers to develop the land. Some cities were in a heavy cultural war with overseas neighbours but I am the advanced civ and so my cheap temples and my libraries would surely overcome these cuturally weak civs in the end.

In 630BC I was one turn from getting Construction and so I then traded for Poly and entered the MA in 610BC. I gifted both scientific civs and they both got Engineering :(. I headed straight towards Education with thoughts of going for the Zulu first. They had offered little in trade, the impi is not the strongest UU out of the four and they are backwards. However some of my other neighbours had designs on my land, even though I had given them the gifts of knowledge to advance into the MA but I guess that that is for later...



Sep 23, 2005

It should be interesting to see who finishes earlier. At beginning of MA, about to attack Xerxes since they don't have pikes yet. I'll save Rome for later because legions are in their cities and they have a defence of 3. I'm 10 turns ahead of you goimg into MA, but I might get screwed in MA like you did so you might have a chance. Good luck!!:goodjob:


Where's my breakfast?
Hall of Fame Staff
Retired Moderator
Nov 28, 2003
My first XTOM in a long time too. Persia delcared shortly after I became a republic. I finished Lit and turn off research for a while. (mistake) Destoryed Persia relatively quickly, then Rome declared, so I kept on warring. Took out their iron but the legions kept on coming. :( Got an army there and used it to find an pillage the other iron. I really wasted too much time on Rome. Started research again for a really late entry into MA. Started on the Zulu but got big happiness problems. Should have switched to monarchy sooner.

I assume both Greeks and Zulus have two iron each as well. :crazyeye:

1000BC: 10 cities, 24 pop, 1 Settler, 7 workers, 11 Warrior (1r/9v/1e), 2 vet Archer, 2 Curragh, 5 Barracks, 1 Granary.

[B]Year	Techs[/B]
3950 BC	Pottery; Ceremonial Burial
3350 BC	Bronze Working (Trade)
2670 BC	Alphabet
2390 BC	Warrior Code (Trade)
1750 BC	Masonry (Trade); The Wheel (Trade)
1725 BC	Writing
1625 BC	Iron Working (Trade)
1475 BC	Mysticism (Trade)
1300 BC	Code of Laws
1150 BC	Map Making (Trade); Horseback Riding (Trade)
1100 BC	Philosophy; Polytheism (Trade); The Republic (Free)
 800 BC	Literature
 290 BC	Monarchy (Trade)
	[COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]<<research off until 10BC>>[/SIZE][/COLOR]
  10 AD	Mathematics
 110 AD	Currency
 230 AD	Construction
 330 AD	Feudalism

[B]Year	Diplomacy[/B]
3350 BC	Made contact with Persians
1750 BC	Made contact with Greeks
1625 BC	Made contact with Romans
1375 BC	Established embassies with Romans, Greeks, Persians
1150 BC	Made contact with Zulu
1050 BC	Established embassies with Zulu; Now at war with Persians
850 BC	Persians no longer refuse contact
390 BC	Now at war with Romans; Made peace with Persians [COLOR="Green"][Dead][/COLOR]
250 BC	Romans no longer refuse contact
300 AD	Made peace with Romans
330 AD	Now at war with Romans
350 AD	Made peace with Romans [COLOR="Green"][Dead][/COLOR]
370 AD	Now at war with Zulu


Dec 5, 2004
ts64 COTM17 open C3C1.22 NoAIpatrol=0

goal: military victory


I moved the worker to the wine and decided to settle in place. For this game I calculated different opening strategies and decided to do a gamble with a granary first. It was ready 3050BC, two turns before growth to size 5. For this opening I found the following worker moves best.

Move E, irrigate wine, move NW, mine BG, road BG, move NE, road BG, mine BG, move S, road wine. Not roading the wine first might have been a mistake, but I thougt I needed the shields from the mined BG to get the granary in time. But now I realise that a one turn delay would have been ok.

Next I built warrior - warrior - settler - warrior - settler. Then it was setup to do a 6-turn warrior - warrior - settler cycle. I got out of sync once
when it got pillaged by a barb and a citizen got killed.

I built three curragh's that went exploring and met Persia 2030BC, Greece 1870BC and Rome and Zulu 1675BC. After they had mapped the starting "continent" I sent them on suicide runs, they all sank.


2510BC Alphabet
1750BC Writing
1675BC Traded for BW, Masonry, TW, WC and IW
1400BC CoL
1250BC Philosophy, Republic
1150BC Traded for Mystiscism and HBR
1125BC Traded for Mathematics and MM
1075BC Literature

1000BC stats

11 towns, 31 pop
11 workers
2 settlers
13 reg warriors
1 curragh
2 granarys and 2 temples
Techs: All AA-techs except Currency, Polytheism, Construction and Monarchy
Contact with Persia, Greeks, Romans and Zulu

I continued to research Currency and Polyteism and then I shut off research waiting for one of the AI's to research Construction. I didn't want to make it cheaper for them to get to pikes. During this time I built barracks in several towns and produced veteran warriors for upgrade. I entered middle ages 430BC when Persia and Zulu had learnt Construction and I could buy it cheap. I will continue to build warriors and soon connect iron, upgrade my warriors and start a gallic campaign over the world.


Dec 27, 2003
Prime Material

4000 Entremont
2670 Alesia
2150 Lugdunum
1625 Camulodunum
1450 Richborough
1200 Gergovia
1175 Verulamium
1075 Augustodurum
1000 Agedincum
670 Eboracum
550 Tyre (from Persians)
470 Burdigala
410 Cataractonum
350 Lapurdum
330 Ratae Coritanorum

4000 CB + Pottery (start)
2470 Alpha (learn)
2070 BW (learn)
1830 Warcode (+40 for Alpha--Persia)
1475 Writing (learn)
1325 IW (+12 for Writing--Rome)
1325 Wheel (+3 for CB--Rome)
1325 Mason (+12 for CB--Persia)
925 Mapping (learn)
690 Math (learn)
630 Mystic (+30 for Pottery--Greece)
630 HB (+130 for Math--Zulus)
610 Poly (+40 for HB + Writing--Greece)
550 Law (+80 for tribute--Persia)
430 Currency (learn)
410 Construct (+33 + silk for Currency + Poly--Persia)
310 Philo (learn)

1830 Persia (embassy in 1475)
1325 Romans (embassy in 1250)
630 Greece and Zulus (embassies in 630)

900-550 Persia
750-530 Rome
350- Persia

Golden Age:

Score: Celts 269, Rome 326, Persia 351. QSC 2421.
Land: 122 squares, 9 towns.
Population: 8 happy, 5 content, 2 sad, 1 scientist.
Production: 70 food, 102 shields, 52 gold.
Buildings: 4 rax, grain, 3 temples.
Units: 7 workers, 3 warriors, 2 archers, 2 curraghs.
Experience: 2 vets, 5 regulars.
Diplomacy: 2 contacts, 2 embassies.
Tech: All starters + IW, writing. We are about 55 beakers away from mapping.


Aug 5, 2005
The Netherlands
killerkid said:

It should be interesting to see who finishes earlier. At beginning of MA, about to attack Xerxes since they don't have pikes yet. I'll save Rome for later because legions are in their cities and they have a defence of 3. I'm 10 turns ahead of you goimg into MA, but I might get screwed in MA like you did so you might have a chance. Good luck!!:goodjob:

You'll probably beat me, I got very many bad events... The first of which I described as not being able to trade Polytheism for about the first time in my life... :)

And I allready finished the game and it's a mediocre date and score, so don't worry about me in this game :p I'm not much of a speed person, I don't do things the best way... Although I hardly lose any emperor games :)


Sep 23, 2005
Don't be so sure. I normally play on monarch level so Emperor should be a challenge. However in beginning of MA I have just destroyed Rome. I think I'll go for Zulu next, they're still in AA so Imps will be no problem for my MIs. I just know you'll beat me. In COTM 16 my date was 1812 and that was monarch.:eek: I have to go back to game now.


Jan 23, 2005
Boston, USA
C3C - Open, 20K.

4000BC. Settle in place. See the coast! Worker -> irrigate & road Wine.

Neighbours: Inca(Exp,Agri, Pot+Mas), Roman (Mil,Com, WC+Alpha), Shumer (Sci, Agri, BW+Pot), Greece(Sci,Com, BW, Alpha), Persia(Ind,Sci, BW,Mas), Zulu(Exp,Mil, WC+Pot), Maya(Agri,Ind, Mas,Pot). All have AA UU!
BUT: None are religious.
I've told in the Pregame thread that I'll do 20K if we have Religious monopoly, and now I'm caught by my word.:lol:
So 20K it is!

Research: Myst->Poly (aiming for Monarchy slingshot). Build: War->War. Then Settler or Temple: we'll choose after desiding on 20K location.

3400BC. Decision time. 2 nice 20K sites on the coast, or a capital which is also nice.
Capital: 21 useful tile, 20sh in Desp, 25sh otherwise. EESE site and one at the northern Wine can build settlers/workers.
EESE Site: 12 useful tiles. Out.
NNE site: 14 useful tiles. 20sh in Despotism, 25 sh. otherwise, and the capital can still be 6-turn settler factory. Plus Colossus and a research boost!
But can we hope for Colossus with 3 Civs having BW and not us?

OK, to the Capital we go!
4000BC - Palace.

3100BC - Temple. Start Settler.
2950BC - Mysticism. Start Poly. Warrior sees green border.
2850BC - Start Oracle.
2750BC - Alesia founded EESE.
2710BC - 1st contact! Zulu! I have a feeling that we are GOTM343 (Jap-Deity) Persia in this game. He has WC+BW, but won't trade for CB. We'll wait for a better trade.
2470BC - See a Hoplite!
Alpha from Greece for Pot+CB+20g
WC+BW+10g from Zulu for Pot+Alpha.

A Barb is approaching our capital! And we have only one warrior in it! Warrior steps out to meet the Barb in the Forest, and defends. Phew.

1800BC - Polytheism. Start Writing as neighbours don't know it yet.
1575BC - meet Romans! They give us:
Masonry+10g for CB.
Zulu give us:
IW+65g for Masonry,
Wheel+10g for Mysticism.
Greece gives us 105g for Myst.
Have Horses and Iron! Thanks, Karasu!

1550BC - Oracle. Start on ToA.
1350BC - Writing. Start Phyl.
Math from Greece for Wri+60g
HBR+25g from Zulu for Math.

1125BC - Get Philosophy but miss a slingshot.:mad:
And later I understood why: I managed to miss Persians. I never saw them until their city border started overlapping Alesia. I could have traded Writing from them, I'm sure, and would have a chance at a slingshot.
It cost me dearly, but you'll see.

Ok, start Lit. Sell HBR to Greece for 95g.
Should I build MoM now? I'll be wasting about 70 shields... Or should I still shoot for ToA? Maybe I can build it before Lit...
I deside to continue building.

QSC. 1000BC - 3 towns, 14 pop. 1 settler, 2 workers, 4 warriors, 1 curragh. Temple, Oracle, Granary.
Missing CoL, MM, Constr, Currency.

975BC - MM+22g from Romans for Myst, Math & HBR.

900BC - curragh finally meets Persia.
Persia gives me:
CoL+139g for Pot(!!), Myst and Math.
So that's how they used their Philosophy.

875BC - Constr from Greece for Phyl+CoL+290g.

OmG! 2 turns till ToA and Maya builds it! Ans still 2 turns to Lit!!! Have to settle for a frigging Great Wall. :(:(
775BC - GW.

730BC - Start Library. Persia has Republic! Can sell it to us for all but Lit! Nice.
690BC - We are a Republic! But why did we get 2 turns of Anarchy?

670BC - cash-rush Library. Start Glib.

470BC - Barely grab both Irons and a Horse as Romans and Zulu both landed on our Isle.

270BC - finish GLib, get Currency from it, enter MA. Start Colosseum.



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should have shaved
Jan 16, 2003
Nata said:
730BC - Start Library. Persia has Republic! Can sell it to us for all but Lit! Nice.
690BC - We are a Republic! But why did we get 2 turns of Anarchy?

If I'm not mistaken the anarchy fase is at least 1 turn for religious civs. You traded for Republic, so the anarchy lasts the remainder of the turn in which you revolt plus the next turn. Only when you revolt in the interturn the anarchy will last 1 turn.


... !
May 30, 2004

I settled in place. Build granary-settler, improving BG first.
Science alphabet @ max.

4000BC Entremont
2850BC Alesia
2550BC Lugdunum
2190BC Camulodunum
1910BC Richborough
1625BC Verulamium
1550BC Gergovia
1400BC Augustodurum
1325BC Agedincum
1150BC Eboracum and Burdigala
1025BC Cataractonium

12 towns, 33 pop
2 granaries, 3 temples, 2 barracks, 1 harbour
6 warriors, 1 archer, 3 settlers, 13 workers, 1 galley

950BC Lapurdum
925BC Ratae Coritanorum
850BC Tolosa
775BC Lindum
650BC Nemausus

2590 alphabet
2310 traded TW,WC
2110 traded BW
1950 writing
1870 traded IW
1625 traded masonry
1600 traded HBR
1550 CoL
1400 philosophy->republic, traded MM, mysticism
1250 literature (stopped research to see what the AI will come up with next)
1100 traded mathematics
875 currency
590 traded polytheism (half researched), construction and engineering (both local sci civs got it after gifting)

Foreign relations
2350 meet Persians
2110 meet Greeks
1600 meet Zulu
1450 meet Romans and make embassies with all
630 declare on Zulu
610 raze Ngome (golden age)

No suicide galleys up to now. Lighthouse will complete 570.


should have shaved
Jan 16, 2003
open, going 100K

The Ancient age: 4000 BC until 280 AD

Plans are to subdue the starting continent asap and then indulge myself in city and culture building. So I thought it would be a good plan to research BW at max and then IW at min. This would take between 60 and 70 turns to complete which seemed to be an ideal timeframe: slow enough to build an adequate number of warriors for upgrade and fast enough for not having to fight pikes.

Entremont founded on the spot with building plans: 3 warriors, 2 settlers, granary and then only settlers.

In 3150BC Bronze Working is researched and we're starting on min. Iron Working. However we still haven't found any neighbour. 2800BC, 7 turns into IW, we're certain: it's once again a :mad: :mad: -island. I'm starting to think on how to put a spell on the mapdesigner. But then I realised what has happend: While downloading the starting-save hurricane Karasutrina must have made landfall and flooded the place so badly the starting continent looks like 5 islands. I wonder what Jove is going to do with his Pyramids plans :rolleyes:

Ofcourse we abandon our initial plan and start to think on how to minimise the damage. Research immediatly shifted towards max Alpha. We have to deny the AI the free philo tech. Research is going faster then normal because we have more cities/citizens then usual when reseaching Alpha. In 2310BC we start on Writing and in 1750BC Philo is started. In 1575BC Philo is researched and we get ourselves a free MapMaking. Phew..:king:

With Alpha we can ourselves somes curraghs to meet the neighbours:
1700BC Rome
1625BC Persia
1575BC Zulu and Greece

Because now we have to conduct some naval operation also, and because there must be another continent (may it be real or Karasu-style), I thought a GLight would be in order. GLight is completed 850BC.

In 800BC the X-man demands Mysticism and after I explaind why that isn't possible he dows. Because I yet have to see the map that's large enough for the both of us, I thank him for the reverse WW. In 570BC we are ready: we take Bactra and our GA starts.

In 530BC a legionair of stupid Caesar walks towards Lapurdum. It's very inpolite of him to not wait his turn for going to war. I try to avoid a conflict and gift Lapurdum to Shaka. It's to no avail of course, in 490BC the legionair is outside Eboracum. I can't continu to gift cities to Shaka, so war with the Romans too.

The same year we get an MGL (arny) while conquering Arbela. The war against Xerxes is going well, he doesn't get a single immortal win (no GA for him :p ). I suffer 2 flips but in 70BC the X-man is no more. :)

In the meantime in 450BC a galley has reached the other civs:
450BC civ I
390BC civ M
290BC civ S
We start a little war over there to keep them from getting bored.

In 230BC We have landed on Rome's island and take Pisae. Caesar however gets his UU-win immediatly, so we have to face an Roman GA. So war has to be fought with greater care, but in 50AD we take Rome, and Caesar is doomed.

In 90AD we're hit by the probably the greatest shame a 100K contester can get. Eboracum joins Zulu :blush: . It's on the far side from the Zulu-mainland and has no Zulu culture. Only thing Zulu around is Lapurdum, which I gifted to Shaka, but it hadn't any culture expansion. Besides Zulu culture is overall quite low. This is very shameful :cry:

In 110AD we capture Veii and Neapolis and give Caesar 20 turns of peace OCC style. Next target on the list is Greece. But his probably a thougher opponent than Caesar. Alex knows a lot more, has an enourmous culture, the GWall and cheap and though defenders. We will raze Athens, ally the Zulu and knock out Athens (GWall) and his both irons in the first blow.

In 250AD we're ready: 20 Gallics attack Athens and raze it, and 20Gallics attack Ephesus. Alex has no GWall and no iron no more.

In 280AD our 50 turn research on Republic ends and we trade with civ I to get us in the MA.


Mac addict, php monkey
Hall of Fame Staff
GOTM Staff
Jan 9, 2003
Nata said:
730BC - Start Library. Persia has Republic! Can sell it to us for all but Lit! Nice.
690BC - We are a Republic! But why did we get 2 turns of Anarchy?

You did get one turn of anarchy. At the end of 730 BC you were in anarchy, and your production etc was calculated on that basis during that inter-turn. You then became a Republic, set yourself up in 690 BC, and the next inter-turn was calculated for your new economy.

An immediate revolt when you research Republic only affects that inter-turn, and I suspect it happens too late to affect production, effectively giving you zero anarchy turns.


... !
May 30, 2004
2 turns of anarchy is normal for C3C. If revolting IBT one can reduce this to 1 for money purposes, but losing 2 turns of shield production can't be avoided.

maybe get a PeeCee and try a little C3C :p .
That's a change in C3C relative to Vanilla/PtW.


Mac addict, php monkey
Hall of Fame Staff
GOTM Staff
Jan 9, 2003
Sorry :blush:

But that's still not a good enough reason to get a PeeCee :eek:
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