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[C3C] COTM154 Mongols Deity -- Discussion and Spoilers

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Game of the Month' started by Più Freddo, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    Forbidden Palace Available or Size 12

    Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until being allowed to build the Forbidden Palace or reaching the size 12, in one of your cities, whichever occurs earlier.

    No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
     
  2. Fergei

    Fergei Chieftain

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    This is one theory, it might explain the Spanish troops spending literally millennia in my territory seemingly searching high and low (travelling north west past me (to an isolated Incan city) then marching east and repeating over and over - presumably the defensive strength of different Incan cities was changing all the time to explain Spanish indecision). I never worked out what to do with Borte prior to the spoiler limit. Temujin was a necessary delight to keep the barbs at bay.

    I was making a conscious effort to keep my military at the free unit cap capacity to see of that averted the war of the last GOTM Deity game. Worked so far and the apparent wars meant Vikings seemed to not contest land as much as they would otherwise. A promising start.
     
  3. Captain_Jack

    Captain_Jack Warlord Supporter

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    .A.A.R. GOTM 154; Captain Jack

    4,000 B.C. – 1,000 B.C.


    Research: I set my scientists to the research of mathematics. The pre-game chatter hinted at the Statue of Zeus as an option for development and I wanted to get that Wonder for both defense and culture. There was never a chance! The Ivory was too far away for me and the Vikings had it wrapped up. I almost got to Mathematics first and thought I could trade it widely for the techs I was lacking, but with one turn to go it seems that one of the other Civs discovered it and brokered it widely. I got nothing for it.

    Expansion: I really like our corner of the world, I just wish there was iron nearby. I sent a settler to the NE and founded Rusty Hill on the closet iron deposit. Since it’s necessary for Cavalry iron is a must-have resource and now I have it. The Vikings are encroaching on my territory there, so I presume we will soon come to blows. Having iron and keeping iron might turn out to be two different things.

    Mongolia 1000 BC.jpg

    Culture: How could I possibly think I could make Tar Valon into a cultural wonder? When will I learn? At 1,000 B.C. I am basically pre-building a coliseum. I suspect I will eventually turn my putative City of Wonder to more prosaic tasks, but for now she is my pride and joy. CKS told me in the forums that a 20k victory can be achieved without any wonders at all! He would know, but I don’t see how it can be managed. CivAssist II projects my 20k victory in the year 11,723 A.D.


    The Kingdom of Mongolia:

    170 B.C. After an eight turn period of anarchy the Monarchy is established. The first order of business is war. I declare on Scandinavia and next turn Spain declares on me. I have a fairly large army, the Viking city of Odense is penetrating my perceived territory, and my hordes want blood.

    173 B.C. I take Odense. Now I settle back on defense to see if my actions will doom my people.

    Revenge of the Vikings: Led by Ragnar, an international coalition of nations join together to eliminate Mongolia from the map. Spain invades my south, Arabia takes my North, the Dutch take my west and the Vikings retake the east. In only a few years my capital is besieged and Börte sold into slavery. The end was mercifully quick (4 hours, 17 minutes play time).


    Mistakes Made and Lessons Learned

    I replayed the game from the start to try to learn what I did wrong and how to do it better. I did so much better in my reincarnation with just a few obvious changes.

    · On replay I settled my capital in place in 4,000 B.C. That turned out so much better. The starting location was well placed and losing two turns to wandering set me on my heels.

    · I gave up illusions of a 20k city and built what I needed now to survive and thrive. Obviously that is the way to go on Deity except for those few cultural specialists that can win with little.

    · I had forgotten that scouts pop only good things from goody huts. I didn’t realize that same applied to Timujin. On replay I got four or more techs from the huts, plenty of money, and some maps. Not as many workers though, since I avoided the barbs and went for the goodies.

    · With nothing being spent on culture I expanded more rapidly, had more military units, and was harassed less by the Ai. I only paid 23 gold to the Inca and was otherwise unmolested until the industrial ages

    · Artillery! I read about its glory but never used it properly until this game. Instead of bouncing off the city walls my Cavalry this time rushed in only after the city was softened up. The results were so much better.

    · Timing! In the replay I attacked Scandinavia a few turns after she was already at war elsewhere. Obviously better with only a portion of the Viking army to contend with.
     
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  4. General_CFR

    General_CFR Warlord

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    This will be the 3rd COTM in a row, which I will submit, after a several years long pause.
    I remember, in 2004 I played on Monarch. And the first game to play on Emperor was our nor-reload contest with Mongols.
    This time Mongols will help me get to Deity.

    As for the game, I organized a settlers factory in the capital, creating a settler every 4 (or 5 if I'm not attentive enough) turns.

    Also used Expansive trait really well and got around 10 techs from the huts.

    I managed to ignite the war across the whole continent. I saw a Vikings' settler guarded by a regular spearman, and I decided to attack them with my veteran horseman. I won and secured space for expansion. Also I signed Incas for some 30 gpt to ally with me in a war against Vikings.

    Eventually all the eastern half of the continent was in the series of wars against of each other.

    Some time later with another horseman I attacked a Spanish settler and prevented them to settle on Silks. Their initial revenge wave was broken with 2 fortified spearmen in a city with walls built in the hills.

    When Temujin returned after scouting, I lost him in an attack against a Spanish archer. Börte was killed by a barbarian raid.

    Managed to make peace with Spanish and get a city. That is inside the limits of the first spoiler, I guess
     
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  5. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    Middle Ages

    Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching the Middle Ages. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.

    No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
     
  6. Fergei

    Fergei Chieftain

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    I essentially spent the remainder of the ancient era in pacifism, having feuding armies wading through my territory and having no sort of military to compete. My prayers remained answered and nobody turns their eye on my poorly defended cities. I note Spain seems to be struggling to acquire resources and harbour thoughts about a future push southwards with Keshiks. But I've a good sized empire and the priority is upgrading defences around my extensive borders. Due to the absence of war I've managed to remain in touch in terms of tech development.

    Borte remains a mystery to me.
     
  7. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    Well, she's a woman, ain't she?

    Once you switch to Republic or Democracy, she has no function. She can be moved by loading her into the Temujin unit. But she did give you two content citizens in the beginning instead of just one. Because it is in the very beginning that the AI is overwhelmingly strong at Deity.
     
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  8. Fergei

    Fergei Chieftain

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    Nice. I thought I needed an army or even a boat in the tiny lake. I'm not good at solving puzzles clearly!
     
  9. Memento

    Memento The World is mine

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    The map was a little bit to large for my old laptop. Long loading and many crashes, but it was a nice game with an annoying end.
     
  10. General_CFR

    General_CFR Warlord

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    For me till the beginning of MA I was expanding and developing cities, waiting for Keshiks. One of my cities flipped to Spain, so, I started looking at them as the future attack aim. But.. let's wait for the Keshiks... :)
     
  11. Green Bear

    Green Bear Chieftain

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    I entered the middle ages in 290 BC with 22 cities.
    Could build the Great Library and the Mausoleum of Mausollos in Karakorum. After building the Great Library i stopped researching. But the AI is very slow for deity.
    I could get some techs, workers and gold from goody huts.
    Other stats:
    7 slaves
    36 workers
    32 warriors
    8 spearmen
    1 Börte
    1 Temujin

    290bc.jpg
     
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  12. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    Did you attempt to retrieve the bonus Technology at the discovery of Philosophy?
     
  13. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    i did try the Philo sling, but failed... :(
    t_x
     
  14. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    4000 settle in place, find 2 huts+gems, worker on FPs, production set on a granary, science to Alpha

    3950 1st hut gives maps, reveals 2 more huts

    Next huts give 1x gold, 2x warriors, CB, worker, warrior, worker, 2 warriors

    Find that food resources emphasize early wider spacing of cities, later to fill back in

    3600 meet Ragnar

    3550 find silks

    3300 cannot trade for Alpha yet but for a 1st slave

    3250 meet Spain, trade for Alpha

    3150 granary

    3100 more trades, more slaves

    2950 meet Arabs, first settler, SF operational

    2750 2nd town

    2710 got first enslaved barb from Temujin IBT

    2590 3rd town

    2390 4th, meet China

    2310 suffered a plundering by the first barb horse, just a bit of gold gone. 5th town; meet Incans and see orange borders as well; get 25g from a hut.

    2270 damn, Incans got Writing… I buy it from them, but do not trade it around and risk to still go for the Philo sling; IBT 2nd horse kills a worker and ransacks town for even more gold.

    2230 Masonry from a hut

    2190 Temujin can show his blitz, turns elite, creates another slave

    2150 6th town, meet the Dutch. They also already know Writing L

    2110 hut gives warrior at the other end of the world, sees red colors; finish 2nd gran for worker factory from next turn on

    2070 meet Sumeria

    1990 found 7th town, planned FP town

    1950 iron is very far away

    1910 connect 2nd lux

    1725 CoL in, nobody has it yet (or Philo)

    1650 establish all but 1 embassies, nothing special to see; but then… Arabs and Inco got Philo L only 3-4 turns before I could have managed the full sling.

    1125 only 1t before we reach Republic, Sumer and Inca have got the tech! Bummer!

    Instigate wars so that everyone is busy, especially Sumeria with their wonder-induced GA in which they cannot really build much. Revolt for 6t anarchy.


    1000bc stats:

    3 cities, 16 towns, 74 pop, 359g

    3 grans (1 sold), 2 raxes

    Horses, iron, 3 luxes connected

    Embassies with all civs

    22 workers, a few slaves, 1 scout, 10 warriors, 3 horsemen, the Royal couple, Temujin being elite

    Rep and all obligatory AA techs except Currency, everyone still in the AA

    ~40% into the FP

    2 turns anarchy left


    IBT after 975 -> Rep

    875 Curr in, i enter MA first
     
  15. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    1000bc, a pic to say it all:


    a fun game, and i even have got a plan for it, so i may finish this time.
    t_x
     

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    Last edited: Feb 12, 2021
  16. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    Yeah, close but no cigar. You had the bad luck that the AI got Writing. I tested and tweaked the game until I got the Slingshot. I wasn't sure just how big the advantage is to play a game you designed, trying to "forget" its features.

    This was by design, by the way. An important contribution towards the Slingshot:

    Sorry you still missed it. You also seems to have had the bad luck of getting 5 Warriors from Huts. Some more Workers or Technologies instead, and there you are, or would have been.
     
  17. templar_x

    templar_x usually walks his talks

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    i did not mind. on Deity, even being first to Philo is not a given. with this start that you gave us, one could try the full slingshot, but never expect to get it for sure.
    t_x
     
  18. Green Bear

    Green Bear Chieftain

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    Yes, I got Philo first. But I did not go for the slingshot. So I have chosen Literature.
     
  19. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    Industrial Times or Game Submitted

    Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching Industrial Time or having submitted the game. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.

    No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
     
  20. General_CFR

    General_CFR Warlord

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    All right, this is my time!
    First I want to thank Più Freddo for organization!

    This is the first time for me winning on Deity! I recall, how I won on Emperor for the first time. There were tournaments on the Russian forum civfanatics.ru, I was playing them on Monarch regularly. And one day, 16 years ago, I thought "OK, I must select Emperor difficulty in the next tournament". And then the conditions of next tournament was announced: we play for Mongols, our single ally are Ottomans, and there are 5 or 6 European nations in the unbreakable alliance against us. Well, I still selected Emperor and won this game, first time in my civ-life.

    Also, this is my 3rd completed COTM in a row (mostly thanks to the extended submission deadlines). After the experience of the Celts game (COTM 152), I relied much on igniting the war between the computers. And the wars I started in the early phase of the game (mostly, after attacking Vikings and calling Inca to help me for gpt), continued and extended to the whole continent. For example, the Spanish, after making peace with me, marched across my whole land to attack the Chinese and Babylonian cities on the shores.

    While learning Chivalry I was gathering the power to attack by building horsemen and marketplaces. Once completed Chivalry, I put science to 0 and started upgrading the horsemen. As the first aim I selected the Spanish. There were 2 reasons:
    1. my city cuture-flipped to them
    2. I wanted to have safe back when turning to the rest of the continent

    Having a Spanish city (which Isabella gave me for peace) helped a lot to build the base for the attack.

    I got Chemistry from Spanish and they got a 20-turns delay until the final extermination. The next aim was the Viking. Fun, but they stayed in the game after loosing all the cities (looks like they had a settler on a galley somewhere)

    Then I had doubts. Arabs didn't have iron, so, they could be an easy prey from my Keshiks, but they were friendly to me and were in alliance against the Spanish. So, I charged 1/4/1 Swiss mercenaries of Netherlands. Additional factor to attack the Dutch was that they owned the Temple of Artemis.
    That war was much more difficult, but, anyway, possible. I experienced several culture-flips, but as I mostly did not keep Keshiks in the cities, I reconquered them. Got an army in that war, but after a few turns lost it in a not-so-suicidal attack. Once I overestimated my power and tried to capture 2 cities in one turn, resulting to a long-lasting stalemate situation on the fronts, while I was waiting for the reinforcements.

    Finally, got Metallurgy from the Dutch. After a while I learned Military traditions and started upgrading my Keshiks to Cavalry. At that time Babylonians reached the Industrial age. And, again, I could really well leave them alone and conquer the weakest rivals. But there was no guarantee that the Babylon won't attack while I would be dealing with the Arabs. So, I started planning the Babylon campaign. They had hordes of units in the field.

    I was really lucky that some 2 turns before I was ready to attack Babylon, Babylon declared war on Inca, and they started moving their troops to the opposite border. I waited for a couple more turns, till they drag more of their units to the Eastern front, and finally, attacked. I had around 90 cavalry at that time and 12 elite Keshiks.

    After few turns of war, Babylon got riflemen. I managed to capture 2 cities on a way to the capital, before their army started returning from the Eastern front to defend their core lands. Luckily, looks like they lost much cavalry in the Incan war, and they didn't have a supply of saltpeter (earlier I was selling saltpeter to them for 50 gpt). But the infantry horde (mostly sonsisting of longbowmen and pikemen) was huge.

    Eventually the cavalry stack which got 2 core Babylon cities was blocked. I gathered all of them in one of the cities, leaving the other to the enemy. I was lucky that that city with my garrison did not culture-flip (or, maybe, I had enough cavalry there to prevent culture-flipping totally, as far as I remember, such a number exists).

    But their infantry stack did not go to storm the city with my cavalry, they decided to capture the cities in the west instead. This gave me valuable turns to build and bring more reinforcements. Also, after my garrison made a sortie, I've managed to create 2 armies in a turn. In the total during that was I got about 8 armies and lost 2. When things on the frontline were not going well I built a Military Academy in my second capital, but never built a single army there.

    Babylon campaign was over. All the rest players stayed in the MA. I still needed some squares to reach domination. So, I decided to attack Arabs, as the biggest faction. I was ready to attack them on the next turn. And decided to force-drive away Arabian units from my territory by "leave or declare war". And they declared war on me! I started the attack, captured 3 cities, but, as my units on the metropoly territory have already moved, I lost 1 my city to the Arabs next turn (that was not an important one). Anyway, I've got domitation victory after 30 hours of play.

    Those were great 30 hours :)

    I really like to watch after-game minimap history. Here, I published it on YT with a link access (going to make it public once this COTM is over)


    Also, while playing these COTMs I got inspiration to try again to make my own turn-based strategy (which I'm making since 2012 or so). Here's how the newest gameplay looks like:
     
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