Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
COTM 158: Maya
[C3C] COTM158 Maya Deity -- Discussion and Spoilers
- Thread starter Più Freddo
- Start date
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Let's discuss this game over Christmas!
In this game, we play at Deity level as Smoke-Jaguar of the Mayans. The Mayans are an Agricultural and Industrious tribe and start the game with knowledge of Masonry and Pottery. The Mayan Unique Unit is the Javelin Thrower, an Archer replacement with an increased defensive strength at 2, a higher cost at 30 shields and a one-third chance at each victorious battle to enslave the losing unit, creating a Slave Worker. More about Javelin Throwers and Workers below!
We have gotten a few concessions to facilitate early survival, I hope suitable for all players at all experience and skill levels:
Starting Position
Scope of the Game
Standard Map
Continents with 80% Water, 20% Land
Wet, Warm, 5 Billion Years Old terrain and climate
Roaming Barbarians
Time Plan
The game is released on January 1, 2022.
Submissions are due by March 31, 2022.
PLEASE NOTE THE DATE!
Game Release Page
Game release page
Spoiler Limit
Spoiler Limit: Industrial Times or Game Submitted
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching Industrial Time or having submitted the game. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
(This limit will be changed as the game progresses.)
In this game, we play at Deity level as Smoke-Jaguar of the Mayans. The Mayans are an Agricultural and Industrious tribe and start the game with knowledge of Masonry and Pottery. The Mayan Unique Unit is the Javelin Thrower, an Archer replacement with an increased defensive strength at 2, a higher cost at 30 shields and a one-third chance at each victorious battle to enslave the losing unit, creating a Slave Worker. More about Javelin Throwers and Workers below!
We have gotten a few concessions to facilitate early survival, I hope suitable for all players at all experience and skill levels:
- We start with three extra Javelin Throwers. We should use them wisely.
- Smoke-Jaguar himself, with stats as a regular Warrior, takes part in the game. He is on a recce, see picture below.
- We possess Alphabet as a monopoly.
- Some other tribes have gotten an extra Worker.
- Our people are mining for gems in the mountains.
- Chinese Riders move 2 instead of 3 tiles per turn.
- Workers, on the other hand, move 2 tiles per turn instead of 1.
- Javelin Throwers have two extra hitpoints.
- The Temple of the Sun, see illustration above, replaces The Statue of Zeus and creates Javelin Throwers instead of Ancient Cavalry. It is now a Militaristic and Industrious Wonder.
Starting Position
Scope of the Game
Standard Map
Continents with 80% Water, 20% Land
Wet, Warm, 5 Billion Years Old terrain and climate
Roaming Barbarians
Time Plan
The game is released on January 1, 2022.
Submissions are due by March 31, 2022.
PLEASE NOTE THE DATE!
Game Release Page
Game release page
Spoiler Limit
Spoiler Limit: Industrial Times or Game Submitted
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching Industrial Time or having submitted the game. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
(This limit will be changed as the game progresses.)
Last edited:
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Pre-Game Discussion
No spoiler information from after opening the game save file is allowed!
No spoiler information from after opening the game save file is allowed!
templar_x
usually walks his talks
Thank you for preparing another interesting game, Piu! 
I see 3 locations for early pop factories. Those require quite a few worker turns. Good we can protect our workers from the barbs with those extra units.
Will we have extra unit support, or do we pay for the extra units right from the start? And does the TotS still require ivory?
The mine allows us to cut that single forest next to the starting loc, and we´d still have 2 shields on growth. In case some spread sheet says that this makes any sense...
And do i see tobacco on a BG there? nice.
t_x
I see 3 locations for early pop factories. Those require quite a few worker turns. Good we can protect our workers from the barbs with those extra units.
Will we have extra unit support, or do we pay for the extra units right from the start? And does the TotS still require ivory?
The mine allows us to cut that single forest next to the starting loc, and we´d still have 2 shields on growth. In case some spread sheet says that this makes any sense...
And do i see tobacco on a BG there? nice.
t_x
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Unit support paid. Find a source of income!
Ivory still needed.
Ivory still needed.
templar_x
usually walks his talks
and if someone else builds the Sun temple, they also will have Javelins? Interesting 
t_x
t_x
I suppose we settle in place immediately, especially at Deity. Is being on the ocean a significant enough advantage to move North one tile?
What does this mean? Isn't a Wonder just a Wonder, or is there a nuance I am missing?
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
The traits of Wonders determine whether or not a Golden Age is triggered at Wonder construction.
Last edited:
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Spoiler Limit: Forbidden Palace Available or Size 12
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until being allowed to build the Forbidden Palace or reaching the size 12, in one of your cities, whichever occurs earlier.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until being allowed to build the Forbidden Palace or reaching the size 12, in one of your cities, whichever occurs earlier.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
Green Bear
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2020
- Messages
- 37
I founded Chichen Itza 1S and scouted first with all my extra units. But very early Smoke Jaguar and one Javline Thrower had to be military police in my capital. So the other two Javliners got contact to Egypt (3450 BC) and China (3400 BC). Another civ, the Japanese, met me in 2350 BC. I think they were attacking the Barbarians, which were around me.
In 3250 BC Chichen Itza built a granary and in 2900 BC it built a temple. I could produce six settlers, before I switched to The Pyramids in 2030 BC. My capital reached size 12 in 1625 BC.
This are the foundings of my cities to 1625 BC:
3950 BC Chichen Itza
2630 BC Copan
2510 BC Palenque
2350 BC Tikal
2310 BC Yaxchilan
2070 BC Bonampak
1910 BC Lagartero
1650 BC Quirigua
And this are the technologies I got:
4000 BC Discover Masonry
4000 BC Discover Pottery
4000 BC Discover Alphabet
3450 BC Learn Ceremonial Burial
3400 BC Learn Warrior Code
3400 BC Learn Bronze Working
2390 BC Discover Writing
2310 BC Learn Iron Working
1725 BC Disover Code of Laws
1725 BC Learn Mathematics
1725 BC Learn Mysticism
1725 BC Learn The Wheel
In 3250 BC Chichen Itza built a granary and in 2900 BC it built a temple. I could produce six settlers, before I switched to The Pyramids in 2030 BC. My capital reached size 12 in 1625 BC.
This are the foundings of my cities to 1625 BC:
3950 BC Chichen Itza
2630 BC Copan
2510 BC Palenque
2350 BC Tikal
2310 BC Yaxchilan
2070 BC Bonampak
1910 BC Lagartero
1650 BC Quirigua
And this are the technologies I got:
4000 BC Discover Masonry
4000 BC Discover Pottery
4000 BC Discover Alphabet
3450 BC Learn Ceremonial Burial
3400 BC Learn Warrior Code
3400 BC Learn Bronze Working
2390 BC Discover Writing
2310 BC Learn Iron Working
1725 BC Disover Code of Laws
1725 BC Learn Mathematics
1725 BC Learn Mysticism
1725 BC Learn The Wheel
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Spoiler Limit: Middle Ages
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching the Middle Ages. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching the Middle Ages. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
Green Bear
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2020
- Messages
- 37
I got the Republic slingshot in 1550 BC but did not want to go in Anarchy, because I hoped to get the Pyramids. And really Chichen Itza built them in 1400 BC. So I had a Despo GA. I also could trade ivory to build the Temple of the Sun in 1225 BC. In 1075 BC I discovered Currency and hoped that the AI could get Horseback Riding, the last tech in the Ancient Age. China got it in 800 BC and I could trade it with them. So the Mayan people reached the Middle Ages then.
I also could trade Monarchy before the end of the GA and established it in 800 BC.
City foundings:
1475 BC Calakmul
1425 BC Lazapa
1425 BC Kaminaljuyu (Forbidden Palace available)
1350 BC Piedras Negras
1300 BC Uaxactun
1175 BC Cuello
1125 BC Tulum
Techs:
1550 BC Discover Philosophy
1550 BC Discover The Republic
1450 BC Learn Construction
1300 BC Discover Literature
1300 BC Learn Map Making
1300 BC Learn Polytheism
1075 BC Discover Currency
950 BC Learn Monarchy
800 BC Learn Horseback Riding
I also could trade Monarchy before the end of the GA and established it in 800 BC.
City foundings:
1475 BC Calakmul
1425 BC Lazapa
1425 BC Kaminaljuyu (Forbidden Palace available)
1350 BC Piedras Negras
1300 BC Uaxactun
1175 BC Cuello
1125 BC Tulum
Techs:
1550 BC Discover Philosophy
1550 BC Discover The Republic
1450 BC Learn Construction
1300 BC Discover Literature
1300 BC Learn Map Making
1300 BC Learn Polytheism
1075 BC Discover Currency
950 BC Learn Monarchy
800 BC Learn Horseback Riding
Green Bear
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2020
- Messages
- 37
The Maya in 800 BC:
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Spoiler Limit: Industrial Times or Game Submitted
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching Industrial Time or having submitted the game. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching Industrial Time or having submitted the game. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
I finished the game after the Industrial Age. When am I permitted to post my final spoiler?
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Now. It's not very well written... The idea was that at this stage anyone who have already submitted the game may read and write spoilers, and additionaly also anyone who has not yet submitted the game, but who has entered Industrial Times and thus will not really profit from spoiler information. It was intended for keeping the community together also when some of us play really long games.
3950 B.C.> I headed to the coast to found Chichen Itza. I build a Curragh to meet my neighbors and count on the javelin throwers I have been granted for initial defense.
3600 B.C.> I contact Egypt. I trade Pottery for Ceremonial Burial.
3450 B.C.> I connect my gems.
3300 B.C.> I meet China. I give Ceremonial Burial and 40 gold for Bronze Working.
1575 B.C.> I meet Japan. We four nations share one continent. My Curragh has shown me the contour of the continent, but the enemies overwhelming advantage in force has allowed them to send troops wandering everywhere and my little boat did not help me meet them.
I pay 20g tribute to Japan and 6g tribute to China. The latter is irksome as it forces destruction of a temple.
1300 B.C.> Japan and China are at war with Egypt. A few turns later I declare on Egypt just before they get the Great Wall and erect walls in all their cities. No matter. My spears fly over the walls and Pi-Ramses is destroyed. Strange though, it was a 2 population city and was still destroyed. I would have preferred to take it and make it my own.
1125 B.C.> Peace at a profit. Also by now I am the first to develop Literature. I trade it for Philosophy, Mysticism, and Horseback Riding and gold. My research is headed towards Republic and I build libraries. I have almost two slaves per city and have not built a worker yet. These Javelin Throwers are awesome!!
590 B.C.> Republican government is discovered. This revelation is traded for Currency, Polytheism, and Dyes and gold.
430 B.C.> The Mayan Republic is formed, never to be dissolved.
800 B.C.> I begin construction of the Forbidden Palace.
120 B.C.> The Second Egyptian War begins. China declares against Cleopatra and I wait a few turns until she has emptied her cities of troops and sent them south before I opportunistically declare war. I take three of her cities, most notably Elephantine which was right in the middle of my birthright. I gain a ton of Egyptian slaves during the war and end it with 18 cities and 36 workers, all but one a slave. They seem to work as well as a native worker and I think I pay no maintenance on slaves. Perfect.
My naval efforts are a failure. I suspect there is a second continent out there, but the galleys I build are sunk by barbarians or lost at sea. Only my bravest boys volunteer to be sailors and they all die.
la Boca is visited by a Chinese galley and the next turn struck by Covid-158. The Gods are harsh. My people blame the Chinese galley for bringing the plague but my politicians say someone ate a bat. Who knows the truth and what can I do about it anyway?
380-530 A.D.> Well here’s one thing I can do: War with China! They violate ROP and attack. I hate the Civs that violate right of passage and I rarely do it myself intentionally. At first they send in waves of shock troops and I fear annihilation but my troops eventually fight back. I take one of their cities near my saltpeter but I lose two cities and one is destroyed. My hope is that I can make cavalry soon and bolster my defenses. During this time I lose the rest of my galleys but the other continent’s civilizations have finally crossed the ocean and contacted me. I am not at the bottom of the heap. There is hope, but all my naval efforts were futile.
@ 1,000 A.D.> Iron Works erected at Iron Beach. I direct research toward Electronics with the goal of Hoover Dam in that city. Special thanks must go to Più Freddo for making the hills rich with both coal and iron. The Iron Works give me renewed hope of survival.
Tobacco Lake goes on lockdown for an outbreak of the Delta Variant.
I am at war with Japan, but my Cavalry horde is strong enough to beat them back. I have no elite units at the start of the war, and it ends with me in possession of just two elite units. I’d love an army but I’ll never get one at this rate.
1,350 A.D.> The Iron Works at Stallion Beach and my nationwide educational program reap real benefits. My scientists develop the Theory of Evolution and I trade my newly gained scientific advances widely and well bringing me up to parity with all but Persia. I lack only Steel, and that will come in three turns. I also developed Electronics first and keep it for myself until I build the Hoover Dam! Truly the Mayan Republic has advanced greatly in the last few centuries. I recognition of the beneficence of our great creator my new capital is renamed Più Freddo. In retrospect, this was the high water mark of the Mayan Republic.
1,400 A.D.> The Second War of Chinese Agression: Persia and China recognize our emergence as a world power and declare war on us jointly. Persia is too far away to be a real threat but China is our immediate southern neighbor and has been a worry for centuries. This is the existential threat for which we have been preparing. It’s all hands on deck in defense of our great nation.
The Chinese throw their troops at Hierancapolis, but their attacks are poorly organized in waves rather than one horde. I am able to destroy their cavalry as it retreats and force their infantry to attack rather than defend. I bring the Great Instigator in to inspire the defense and begin to plan a counter-offensive. I coordinate my defenses to use the elite troops preferentially and long for a great military leader to emerge.
Then a great joy! On January 8th (in real time) the Great Instigator dresses up as Elvis to celebrate the King’s birthday!! My troops go wild and the city is renamed Hound Dog to commemorate the occasion. Special thanks must go to Più Freddo who must have known this would happen. The Instigator was having fun, and he stayed in costume the rest of the game.
1,475 A.D.> Peace with China. I have taken back some of the cities they took from me earlier. I destroy Malkamal after it trades hands a few times. I wanted to retake Omega but my military is depleted by the war and I fear a reversal. I know China is suffering too when they send musketmen to die at the hands of my cavalry. Now I rebuild.
Persia is building the United Nations. That is a worry, but even after they complete the wonder they never call a vote.
1794 A.D.> I find that I have neither Uranium nor Aluminum, and I learn for the first time that aluminum is necessary to build the Apollo Program. I might need to go to war with China for it, but I don’t have the fortitude to attack again. Both resources are in the old Egyptian territory that I should have conquered, but didn’t. What I decide to do is settle Aluminum on the Incan coast. They are weak and can’t stop me. I build the Apollo Program with the Aluminum and hope to trade for the Uranium.
The Final Countdown: China won’t trade me Uranium, so it is war. I send three settlers into the old Egypt now occupied by China under right of passage, settle on Aluminum and surround Uranium with two cities. I violate the right of passage egregiously, but China did the same to me centuries ago and I have no chance of a diplomatic victory. To win I need to build a spaceship and get off this planet. It’s now or never.
I beat back the Chinese in war and take the land I need, but finally I lost to Persia. They built the spaceship first. I still needed Laser, Robotics, and Super Conductors so I wasn’t terribly close. Thanks again to Piu Freddo for making a very enjoyable game and giving us the tools to win but still making challenges along the way. I really enjoyed this game, far more than most, and I usually just slog through Deity games waiting for the hammer to fall.
Lessons learned:
· I still need to be more aggressive. I should have attacked Egypt earlier when they were weak and taken the land that eventually contained Aluminum and Uranium.
· I should have attacked China when I had Mechanized Infantry and they were still displaying Infantry and Riflemen. Strike when there is a genuine advantage.
· I developed ToE and was in the top tier of science, but somehow I lost that edge. I don’t know how, but it cost me the Space Race.
3600 B.C.> I contact Egypt. I trade Pottery for Ceremonial Burial.
3450 B.C.> I connect my gems.
3300 B.C.> I meet China. I give Ceremonial Burial and 40 gold for Bronze Working.
1575 B.C.> I meet Japan. We four nations share one continent. My Curragh has shown me the contour of the continent, but the enemies overwhelming advantage in force has allowed them to send troops wandering everywhere and my little boat did not help me meet them.
I pay 20g tribute to Japan and 6g tribute to China. The latter is irksome as it forces destruction of a temple.
1300 B.C.> Japan and China are at war with Egypt. A few turns later I declare on Egypt just before they get the Great Wall and erect walls in all their cities. No matter. My spears fly over the walls and Pi-Ramses is destroyed. Strange though, it was a 2 population city and was still destroyed. I would have preferred to take it and make it my own.
1125 B.C.> Peace at a profit. Also by now I am the first to develop Literature. I trade it for Philosophy, Mysticism, and Horseback Riding and gold. My research is headed towards Republic and I build libraries. I have almost two slaves per city and have not built a worker yet. These Javelin Throwers are awesome!!
590 B.C.> Republican government is discovered. This revelation is traded for Currency, Polytheism, and Dyes and gold.
430 B.C.> The Mayan Republic is formed, never to be dissolved.
800 B.C.> I begin construction of the Forbidden Palace.
120 B.C.> The Second Egyptian War begins. China declares against Cleopatra and I wait a few turns until she has emptied her cities of troops and sent them south before I opportunistically declare war. I take three of her cities, most notably Elephantine which was right in the middle of my birthright. I gain a ton of Egyptian slaves during the war and end it with 18 cities and 36 workers, all but one a slave. They seem to work as well as a native worker and I think I pay no maintenance on slaves. Perfect.
My naval efforts are a failure. I suspect there is a second continent out there, but the galleys I build are sunk by barbarians or lost at sea. Only my bravest boys volunteer to be sailors and they all die.
la Boca is visited by a Chinese galley and the next turn struck by Covid-158. The Gods are harsh. My people blame the Chinese galley for bringing the plague but my politicians say someone ate a bat. Who knows the truth and what can I do about it anyway?
380-530 A.D.> Well here’s one thing I can do: War with China! They violate ROP and attack. I hate the Civs that violate right of passage and I rarely do it myself intentionally. At first they send in waves of shock troops and I fear annihilation but my troops eventually fight back. I take one of their cities near my saltpeter but I lose two cities and one is destroyed. My hope is that I can make cavalry soon and bolster my defenses. During this time I lose the rest of my galleys but the other continent’s civilizations have finally crossed the ocean and contacted me. I am not at the bottom of the heap. There is hope, but all my naval efforts were futile.
@ 1,000 A.D.> Iron Works erected at Iron Beach. I direct research toward Electronics with the goal of Hoover Dam in that city. Special thanks must go to Più Freddo for making the hills rich with both coal and iron. The Iron Works give me renewed hope of survival.
Tobacco Lake goes on lockdown for an outbreak of the Delta Variant.
I am at war with Japan, but my Cavalry horde is strong enough to beat them back. I have no elite units at the start of the war, and it ends with me in possession of just two elite units. I’d love an army but I’ll never get one at this rate.
1,350 A.D.> The Iron Works at Stallion Beach and my nationwide educational program reap real benefits. My scientists develop the Theory of Evolution and I trade my newly gained scientific advances widely and well bringing me up to parity with all but Persia. I lack only Steel, and that will come in three turns. I also developed Electronics first and keep it for myself until I build the Hoover Dam! Truly the Mayan Republic has advanced greatly in the last few centuries. I recognition of the beneficence of our great creator my new capital is renamed Più Freddo. In retrospect, this was the high water mark of the Mayan Republic.
1,400 A.D.> The Second War of Chinese Agression: Persia and China recognize our emergence as a world power and declare war on us jointly. Persia is too far away to be a real threat but China is our immediate southern neighbor and has been a worry for centuries. This is the existential threat for which we have been preparing. It’s all hands on deck in defense of our great nation.
The Chinese throw their troops at Hierancapolis, but their attacks are poorly organized in waves rather than one horde. I am able to destroy their cavalry as it retreats and force their infantry to attack rather than defend. I bring the Great Instigator in to inspire the defense and begin to plan a counter-offensive. I coordinate my defenses to use the elite troops preferentially and long for a great military leader to emerge.
Then a great joy! On January 8th (in real time) the Great Instigator dresses up as Elvis to celebrate the King’s birthday!! My troops go wild and the city is renamed Hound Dog to commemorate the occasion. Special thanks must go to Più Freddo who must have known this would happen. The Instigator was having fun, and he stayed in costume the rest of the game.
1,475 A.D.> Peace with China. I have taken back some of the cities they took from me earlier. I destroy Malkamal after it trades hands a few times. I wanted to retake Omega but my military is depleted by the war and I fear a reversal. I know China is suffering too when they send musketmen to die at the hands of my cavalry. Now I rebuild.
Persia is building the United Nations. That is a worry, but even after they complete the wonder they never call a vote.
1794 A.D.> I find that I have neither Uranium nor Aluminum, and I learn for the first time that aluminum is necessary to build the Apollo Program. I might need to go to war with China for it, but I don’t have the fortitude to attack again. Both resources are in the old Egyptian territory that I should have conquered, but didn’t. What I decide to do is settle Aluminum on the Incan coast. They are weak and can’t stop me. I build the Apollo Program with the Aluminum and hope to trade for the Uranium.
The Final Countdown: China won’t trade me Uranium, so it is war. I send three settlers into the old Egypt now occupied by China under right of passage, settle on Aluminum and surround Uranium with two cities. I violate the right of passage egregiously, but China did the same to me centuries ago and I have no chance of a diplomatic victory. To win I need to build a spaceship and get off this planet. It’s now or never.
I beat back the Chinese in war and take the land I need, but finally I lost to Persia. They built the spaceship first. I still needed Laser, Robotics, and Super Conductors so I wasn’t terribly close. Thanks again to Piu Freddo for making a very enjoyable game and giving us the tools to win but still making challenges along the way. I really enjoyed this game, far more than most, and I usually just slog through Deity games waiting for the hammer to fall.
Lessons learned:
· I still need to be more aggressive. I should have attacked Egypt earlier when they were weak and taken the land that eventually contained Aluminum and Uranium.
· I should have attacked China when I had Mechanized Infantry and they were still displaying Infantry and Riflemen. Strike when there is a genuine advantage.
· I developed ToE and was in the top tier of science, but somehow I lost that edge. I don’t know how, but it cost me the Space Race.
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
So, what did y'all think of having The Plague in this game?
I renamed that city Wuhan. I like the circling crows.
