[C3C] COTM160 Rome Demigod

[Più Freddo]

COTM 160: Rome Demigod

 

[Più Freddo]

Quanto sei bella Roma
Quann'è sera
Quanno la luna se specchia dentro er Fontanone
E le coppiette
Se ne vanno via
Quanto sei bella Roma
Quanno piove

Quanto sei grande Roma
Quand'è er tramonto
Quanno l'arancia rosseggia ancora sui sette colli
E le finestre
So' tanti occhi
Che te sembrano di'
Quanto sei bella
La-la-la-la
Quanto sei bella

Oggi me sembra che
Er tempo se sia fermato qui
Vedo la maestà del Colosseo
Vedo la santità del 'cupolone'
E so' più vivo
E so' più bono
No, nun te lasso mai
Roma capoccia
Der monno infame
Roma capoccia
Der monno infame

Na carrozzella va co' du' stranieri
Un rubivecchi te chiede un po' de stracci
Li passeracci so' usignoli
Io ce so' nato Roma

Io t'ho scoperta
Stamattina
Io t'ho scoperta

Oggi me sembra che
Er tempo se sia fermato qui
Vedo la maestà der Colosseo
Vedo la santità der 'cupolone'
E so' più vivo
E so' più bono
No, nun te lasso mai
Roma capoccia
Der monno infame
Roma capoccia
Der monno infame

 

[Più Freddo]

In Conquest of the Month 160 you rule as Julius Caesar over the Militaristic and Commercial Romans, who already know Alphabet and Warrior Code. The Roman Unique Unit is the Legionary, a better Swordsman.

This game was designed by Green Bear.

Changes in this game

• Rome starts with two extra Legionaries
• Legionaries can move two squares a turn
• Galleys (also Barbs) have attack strenth 2

Starting Position

Scope of the Game

• Standard map
• 60 % ocean, normal, temperate, 4 billion years
• Barbarians: raging
• 9 AI civs

Time Plan

• The game is released on July 1, 2022.
• Submissions are due by September 30, 2022.

Game release page

Spoilers and discussions are free. Use your judgement!

 

[Più Freddo]

I think I will rename my two initial Legionaries: Romulus and Remus.

Found Rome in place -- on Capitolium. Still missing the seventh hill...

If we can only get hold of Iron, we can have a six-turn Legionary-Settler Combo Factory in Rome.

Still to be decided if Romulus and/or Remus are needed as Military Police, or if they should roam around robbing away Sabinians and other Barbarians.

 

[Spoonwood]

Still to be decided if Romulus and/or Remus are needed as Military Police, or if they should roam around robbing away Sabinians and other Barbarians.

Get them moving to get contacts and just put out warriors or archers for military police like normal. Two movement units mean quick contacts, and that means a good broker position.

 

[Più Freddo]

Correct. Marching orders to the two mountain tops!

 

[MrRandomGuy]

I'm looking at this and thinking 20k culture victory. Nice cow, mountain tiles, plenty of bonus grassland, forest to chop while making granary and temple. But then it's Demigod. I've leapt to Emperor and am a little shaky on it still. Don't know if I can do Demigod by myself.

 

[Spoonwood]

I'm looking at this and thinking 20k culture victory. Nice cow, mountain tiles, plenty of bonus grassland, forest to chop while making granary and temple. But then it's Demigod. I've leapt to Emperor and am a little shaky on it still. Don't know if I can do Demigod by myself.

Yea, that is a high shield area. Good 20k location.

 

[MrRandomGuy]

I'm not going to be able to submit this because I've abandoned and restarted several times. I can't exactly remember how many attempts I've made because I'm hyped up on meds for a sinus infection. Anyway, I seem to always be doing well up until the middle ages. Been able to snag the GLB every attempt and keep up until Education, but then the AI gets way ahead in tech. Also barb galleys make it difficult to explore for neighbors off continent. And the barbs are making it difficult to expand at the early game.

Pretty much get the feeling that I could do it given enough attempts, but then things become just out of reach. Just like certain resources and luxuries on this map.

 

[Più Freddo]

I'm sorry to hear that, Mr. Random Guy. Keep on trying even if you can't submit this time! Perhaps, you can compare notes with the spoilers in this thread which I hope will start coming in a couple of weeks.

I'm off to a good start. It can be done. I'm just about to submit my QSC contribution.

 

[Captain_Jack]

Starting with two Legionaires at the start awesome. That's almost like having the Marines at our disposal. I suppose we will need it at Demigod.

 

[bbrady413]

I'm not going to be able to submit this because I've abandoned and restarted several times. I can't exactly remember how many attempts I've made because I'm hyped up on meds for a sinus infection. Anyway, I seem to always be doing well up until the middle ages. Been able to snag the GLB every attempt and keep up until Education, but then the AI gets way ahead in tech. Also barb galleys make it difficult to explore for neighbors off continent. And the barbs are making it difficult to expand at the early game.

Pretty much get the feeling that I could do it given enough attempts, but then things become just out of reach. Just like certain resources and luxuries on this map.

I’ve been an on and off GOTM player for years, with some big breaks (mostly due to work or having kids!). Very rarely do I actually do well enough to be competitive in these games. But even in the games I can’t submit or get beaten on, it’s always a learning experience. The discussions about what the more successful players did to achieve victory always makes my game better for the next time. So use it as a way to improve!

 

[Quintillus]

I decided to pick up this one due to not wanting to have to locate my PTW CD (and also because it's Rome and maybe with that fast Legionary I can win on Demigod. Haven't been bothering to micromanage because I've never had the patience for that, and lost one of my two Legionaries to a barbarian on about turn 5. But aside from that, I'm alive, and doing better than I'd expected.

The spoiler is for reaching the Middle Ages, which took place at 90 BC.

Spoiler :

Played intuitively after losing the Legion, pumped out tons of Warriors. Research Bronze Working, then Iron Working so I knew where the Iron was. Traded Egypt for Masonry, then set about researching Math.

I noticed the Iron to the west and made that my priority, specifically making sure Egypt didn't get it. I'd already built Veii at the strait, and Cumae southwest of their nestled among mountains, and a line of 8 Warriors blocked Egypt off from any expansion in that direction. Then I focused on making as many Settlers as possible. It worked pretty well; Egypt did claim a little bit of land by landing settlers by boat, but I got the Iron, the Silk, and a lot of good land overall in the north, especially considering the difficulty level.

In the south, a similar Warrior wall meant that Greece only got one settlement north of where the plains start, a site that I'd forgotten about in my rush to settle the Tundra and not have anyone at my back.

Currently, I have 18 cities through peaceful expansion. Going to settle one more, and probably abandon/relocate another to make it 20 overall.

That's good for 8% of the land area, tied with Greece for the lead on the F8 screen, and rated 6/10 overall. I'm 6th in almost everything (5th in manufacturing goods), which is way better than I expect on this level, and which can't be credited to the fast legions. I'm actually gaining on Egypt in score currently, 2-3 points per turn.

After Mathematics, researched Philosophy, but was too late for a slingshot. Then I researched Currency, which proved a good decision as no one else knew it. Traded up so I'm only down Engineering, and Monarchy for Egypt/Greece.

Only Babylon has Iron, so I think the game plan Green Bear may have had in mind for a successful game may have been to ally with them against Egypt or Greece. My military advisor tells me that Bablyon's strongest unit is the Swordsman, Egypt's is the War Chariot, and Greece's is the Galley. I think the Hoplite is stronger than the Galley, personally. Greece also lacks Horses, so despite the Hoplite, a Legionary + Catapult offensive against them would likely go well.

However, in trading up, I decided to trade Greece Iron and Horses so they can defend themselves properly, and so we aren't backwards. Thus I'm favoring an approach of going after Egypt. They've also got the Temple of Artemis, which would be nice to have to boost my culture. Border Temples have been a priority, but overall we're pretty unsophisticated. I'll bring in either Babylon or Greece against them, probably the latter since that avoids the possibility of Egypt bringing them in against me.

Sadly, Legions still upgrade to Medieval Infantry despite having 2 movement (I'd often prefer they didn't even with 1 movement), so I'm going to intentionally avoid Feudalism for a while. Initially by turning off research to upgrade my 26 Warriors (only 4 Legions so far), but once that's done, seeing what I can do to get Monarchy, and maybe going towards Banking.

Currently, I'm building two Galleys for scouting, and probably should build a third. There appears to be an inland sea to our south, and maybe some Eastern Romans to the west?

Map:

 

[Captain_Jack]

lost one of my two Legionaries to a barbarian on about turn 5

Me too! I was shocked that Romulus couldn't handle when I commanded him to attack. I lost my other one on defense soon after. Those initial legionaires were fast, but not furious.

 

[MrRandomGuy]

My first attempt Greece tried to shake me down for writing. I told them no and one of my legions was near their territory. Thanks to barbs it was already elite and they managed to throw enough units at it to give me a MGL. But I couldn't do anything with it without going through Greek territory. Tried to fortify on a hill until it could fully heal and they still killed it along with the MGL.

 

[Più Freddo]

[they] killed it along with the MGL.

That's really annoying. Try stacking units. On demigod, the AI has a lot of units.

 

[Quintillus]

Spoiler Early Middle Ages, 320 AD :

I decided to go after Egypt as planned. Didn't pay for any allies because they all wanted a lot of money, figured if Egypt brought Greece or Babylon in, I'd pay for the other one to join.

It went well. But I'd been aware that Egypt was building the Great Library, and they finished it. A gift!

Or was it a poison pill? I would lose my precious Legions if I took Thebes! As a result, I made peace after taking Abydos (the Egyptian city in the north), with a hefty tribute of 38 GPT for Egypt getting to keep their Wonder-ful capital, including the Temple of Artemis I actually wanted.

But 760 gold is nothing to be sneezed at, and this would let me wage a campaign against Greece.with Legions. Quite possibly paying for a Babylonian ally at the same time, and weakening Babylon, owner of the Great Wall of Babylon, would be key if I wanted to take the whole continent. Hopefully, one of them would also finish Sun Tzu's; our continent seems to be relatively advanced, with only Germany of the known off-continent civs also working on it (there are still two civs I haven't met).

The very turn after peace, however, Byblos would revolt . A few turns later, El Amarna (under the Great Library pop-up) would do the same. . This prompts reading up on culture flip probabilities, pop-rushing some temples, and investing more in culture generally.

 

[Quintillus]

Spoiler Two Civs in Industrial Era, But Not Rome, 1265 AD :

Soon after Byblos revolted, I invaded Greece in 430 AD, bringing in Egypt and Babylon. Bringing in Babylon might have been a mistake, as they proved to be the military juggernaut on the continent, and took Sun Tzu's and everything south of Athens. But Greece was steamrolled, and became the first civ to be eliminated a couple centuries later.

Along the way, all of the cities I'd taken from Egypt revolted. Granted it was only 4, but I don't think I'd ever had that happen before. But by this point, I'd noticed that Egypt was building an awful lot of wonders, and keeping them on my continent. So I was content to let their cities go back to them.

Instead, I invaded Babylon, figuring I shouldn't let them grow too powerful. Despite bringing in Egypt, this proved difficult. We took Pharsalos quickly, and Nineveh north of Babylon, home of all the incense. But then things bogged down at Babylon, with their great numbers of Musketmen, and newfangled Cavalry starting to emerge. We were just about to make peace when we noticed Babylon was sending Longbows instead of Cavalry towards us. Deducing that they had lost their Saltpeter, we continued.

Thus, we pillaged everything near Babylon, went back to take Delphi and Sparta, came back, and finally took Babylon after sieging it down to size 6. This all took until about 1000 AD. We kept Babylon, home of the Great Wall and the Knights Templar.

We proceeded to raze the two cities south of Babylon to reduce flip chances, and would eventually take all of Babylon's cities on the continent except Uruk (far west of Athens, strategically inconsequential). So far, one has flipped back; Babylon has more than twice as much culture as us, and more than anyone else in the world, though we're slowly closing the gap.

But before we finished, in 1180 AD, we launched an invasion of Egypt from the north. Egypt had entered the Industrial Age a few turns earlier and we'd been sending new Legions to their border. Twenty-five were ready to go, plus an army heading north from Babylon towards their source of horses. Byblos was once again our target, with a plan of Byblos, Heliopolis, and then Thebes. That would slingshot us to the Industrial Age, or very close to it, and set us up for continental domination.

Unfortunately, the invasion was a disaster. Not even Byblos was taken. It probably would have been, but for a few Cavalry hanging out in a Galleon in port in Byblos. But it was not. Half our Legions were lost, the other half went staggering back to Cumae, and Egypt hardly suffered a flesh wound. Our other main armies were still busy in the south mopping up Babylon.

The only good news was we had had the sense to station some defensive troops in the area, so Egypt couldn't just march through our lands unopposed. But it was instantly clear things had not gone according to plan, and instead of a quick victory, this was going to be a long slog.

We also realized that our Legions were now obsolete, a point underscored in 1200 when Egypt got Nationalism and Riflemen. If 25 Legions had failed to take Byblos before, even with more defenders present than expected, they had no hope now.

(and yes, we should have had our diplomat scout first. Oops)

So, we went to the trading tables. Germany was brought in as an ally against Egypt; Byzantium was already fighting them, and losing, although our war helped Eastern Rome stop losing ground. Germany is important too, as they dominate their continent, actively conquering India and having already relegated Zululand to being inconsequential, which Zululand had previously done to the Celts. Persia is also inconsequential, due to being super backwards. We don't look forward to Panzers...

Then we traded for Feudalism, Invention, Gunpowder, and a couple turns later Chemistry, realizing we may need Cavalry before securing the Library. Science was turned back on, too.

Now, 15 turns into the war, it has indeed been a stalemate. Even with our losses, we have too many Legions for Egypt to take any land, although thanks to those losses and Egypt's Riflemen, we went from strong to weak relative to them. But similarly, we can't take any land. We have pillaged a lot, both with our Army and with Legions. Disconnecting their Horses means they haven't been able to build any more Cavalry, and now have few left, and disconnecting their Silk helped propel them into Anarchy and eventually Monarchy (they are lucky they hadn't discovered Fascism or Communism). Northern Egypt is now a wasteland, and we're considering a raid around Elephantine to disconnect their Dyes and thus their ability to export luxuries. Although they are at war with everyone except Persia and Babylon, and Babylon signed an embargo against them, so exports are not a great concern.

We are building more Trebuchets, and hope to upgrade them to Cannons in the early 1300s. Combined with our newfangled Medieval Infantry, that might allow us to go on the offensive again; if we can get them all in one place, that might even allow us to redline Riflemen and take cities with Legions after all.

But Thebes is on a hill, and is sure to have tons of defenders. Taking it before Cavalry would be a tall order indeed. So the future is uncertain.

 

[Quintillus]

Spoiler Reached Industrial Era, 1365 AD :

The war with Egypt continues, but has started favoring our side. Thanks to a betrayal by Germany, declaring war on us while we were paying them GPT, we were able to re-trade that GPT for Metallurgy, giving us Cannons earlier than our best-case timeline. This lead to taking Heliopolis and Byblos, both of which have been razed.

Unfortunately, Germany would later manage to trash our reputation by destroying India, to whom we were exporting incense. Civ3 does not do the best job of figuring out when you should take a rep hit... but that meant we couldn't trade Babylon for Military Tradition on credit.

Germany would also make peace with Egypt and gradually switch to their side. First by exporting them Saltpeter, giving them Cavalry again. This was also interesting. I had destroyed all roads to Thebes, and while it had a Harbor on the inland sea, I had a Galley blocking its one coast tile. My belief was this should have prevented Egypt from trading, but it did not. Don't blockades normally prevent trading? My guess is the fact that there were two sea segments had something to do with this. Anyway, I had to destroy the roads by Alexandria, farther south, to sever the trade.

Germany didn't like this, and declared war on me, the Celts and Persians (both of whom are not consequential) also being brought in. Germany was a problem however, landing troops in the south where I no longer had a lot of troops, and taking, though we didn't know it at the time, the one source of Coal in all of our lands. Legions are currently rushing south to force Germany off our lands; five of seven Cavalry have already been destroyed, and Galleys are rushing to the area as well, having destroyed a German Galleon and a Persian Galley (but more German ships still exist).

Back in Egypt, in 1360, we finally took Thebes. About twenty Cannons, maybe more, bombarded it, and Medieval Infantry and Legions were then able to finish it off without much difficulty. This slingshotted us into the Industrial Era, giving us all required techs + Economics + Military Tradition, and Nationalism and Steam Power in the Industrial Age.

The current goal is to force Germany off the island and then make peace, while taking as much as we can from Egypt, preferably also forcing them off the island. That would also net us Leonardo's and Smith's (Thebes gave us Bach's in addition to the Library). Babylon is currently an ally as they also wound up at war with Germany and Egypt, not even through our doing! Byzantium is also an ally, we've been selling them tech for whatever they can pay for it to help them fight Egypt's invasion of their northern lands. No progress so far, but no additional losses.

After that, we need to fix our economy. Embarrassingly, we're still a Despotism. But we aren't just a Despotism due to being bone-headed. As we suspected and CAII backs up, for much of the game Monarchy would have given us a weaker economy, due to unit support costs. True, production + irrigation-fueled growth would have eventually cancelled that out, but there's never been a good time to revolt when 8 turns of Anarchy looked inconsequential.

The current plan is to switch to Communism as soon as we research it. According to CAII, we'll make 30 GPT more as a Communist state than as a Republic, due to 138 GPT in unit support costs as a Republic. Plus no war weariness and more high-production cities, and what's not to like? Of course we have to survive the Kaiser's invasions of our homeland long enough to actually get to that point...

The map of how Germany exported Saltpeter, from CAII:

This was before our pillaging was so thorough, but the coast by Thebes had a Roman galley in it.

Military Advisor map, blown up to 300%:

Germany is at something like 28% of land area, they're the clear strategic rival at this point, the only country ahead of us in score, and have 198% of our culture (though only 23K total). Though Egypt appears to still have the overall tech lead, and the tech pace has slowed considerably.

 

[Quintillus]

Spoiler Two Superpowers, Rome the Weaker of Them,1690 AD :

The world:

In the Age of Sail, consolidation has continued, arguably accelerated. Now, two powers are above all others, Germany and Rome. Combined, they control 70% of the world's land area, and 74% of its population. Germany controls 40% of land, and 41% of population, and has a much larger navy, and is thus considered the supreme military power in the world.

When we last left off, Rome was busy conquering Egypt. Although Elephantine would revolt, Egypt was at one point pushed off their starting continent. With most of their remaining land in the tundra part of the Byzantine island, they are no longer considered a major power - somewhat dangerous, but not likely to rise again.

Rome and Germany had also come into conflict for the first time. That war would not last; Germany would lose Delphi, and they would return to their own spheres of influence. For a short time, there was worldwide peace. Rome used this time to switch to Communism, giving a huge boost to their economy. They'd later focus on Industrialization, and today are the supreme industrial power in the world, eclipsing even Germany.

But the peace didn't last. Germany decided to consolidate its power. Zululand was invaded, and despite Rome gifting them nearly a whole era of tech, and thus the ability to build Riflemen, they fell quickly. Byzantium conquered the last Celtic outpost that had stood for centuries. And in the early 1600s, after securing a mutual protection pact with their neighbors in Persia, Germany declared war on Babylon.

Rome saw Germany's plan. Take all the land outside of Rome, and win via domination. Thus, Rome declared war on Germany, defeating the landing parties seeking to take all the Babylonian cities that had flipped back from Rome. Once these were bested, Rome also declared war on Babylon, taking the Babylonian cities for themselves. Now, in 1690, Rome has just finished pushing Babylon off their starting continent.

But Germany still could win by Domination. Byzantium just declared an ill-advised war on Germany, likely after being bullied for tech or gold, and may become a German province. Egypt could not resist a German invasion for long. If Germany turned on Persia, they could easily absorb their lands. Does the Roman continent contain enough land to stave off defeat if Germany takes all the other lands? The Premier believes the answer is likely not.

Germany has solid backup plans for victory as well. They are at 56,667 culture, and gaining at least 682 per turn, potentially winning a cultural victory before 1800. Rome has less than half their culture, is gaining at less than half their rate, and is investing heavily in Libraries and Universities to try to catch up. Soon Rome may even be building Colosseums. Any lands Germany gains quickly receive cultural buildings, and Germany has far more 1000+ year old buildings than Rome. Byzantium may yet have half of Germany's culture (and has 4 of the top 5 cities in the world), but we are not confident they will stay at that level indefinitely - and definitely not should they be conquered.

Then there is science. Although originally behind Egypt and Babylon, and Rome for a time, Germany has surged ahead, and according to our CAII advisor, leads us by Scientific Method and Replaceable Parts, and they also have a stronger commercial economy. Rome plans to leapfrog them by ninja'ing the Theory of Evolution - currently being prebuilt in Rome, and built by Germany in Entremont - but longer-term Germany will remain a scientific rival. Rome is considering staying at permanent war with Germany to slow down their Democratic Science. At this point their landings of 1-2 Galleons of Cavalry per turn are easily swept aside, a Roman Frigate Factory is in full swing to start sinking more German boats, so that looks like a viable plan. So long as they don't start landing huge amounts of Infantry that our Cannons cannot deal with.

Finally, should Germany build the UN, it is likely they could get Egypt and Persia to vote for them. All they would need to do is eliminate one of the Babylonians and the Byzantines to have the inside track for that victory, and they could do either easily if they send their Cavalry there instead of against Rome.

The ways Germany can win are numerous, and it will take a balanced effort to stave them all off. As Theodora likes to tell us:

We may be surrounded by raging barbarians, but as long as civilizations such as Rome and Byzantines remain, order may yet prevail over chaos.