COTM19 Final Spoiler - End Game

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Game of the Month' started by Karasu, Dec 19, 2005.

  1. Karasu

    Karasu Wanderer GOTM Staff

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    Due to impending holidays this thread opens today ;)

    So this is the last CotM19 spoiler: tell us how it all went. Did you finish the game? Win it? Enjoy it? ;)

    Happy :xmas: and see you all next year!
     
  2. 7Losses

    7Losses Chieftain

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    I'm afraid im in the process of a very slow death.

    I will either lose by:
    - 100K Mongols. Who have destroyed america.
    - 20K Hitties Capitol.
    - Space win Mongols.

    I don't look forward to any of them.

    I missed Copernicus, Newtons and Theory of evolution. As soon as TOE was gone there went my hope for a diplo win. I can't research it fast enough to prevent one of the other win conditions.
    At the time of writing. Mongols are 3/4 of an age ahead of everyone else and a full age in front of Zululand. (And they are building Seti)

    Anybody in the position to win??
     
  3. Alexaus

    Alexaus Chieftain

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    I lost to America (space race) in 1951. I'm kinda surprised I lasted that long.

    I was never in a militarily strong position so I managed to fight only one short war which conveniently triggered a GA but lost me the dyes island.

    Y'all have a good 'holiday season'..
     
  4. seven21

    seven21 Chieftain

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    Lost in 1814 to a Mongol Space launch. Had an opportunity in the early MA to take out the Hittites and form a viable second core but got it wrong! From then on the Mongols just left everyone else trailing despite being in continual war.
     
  5. Nata

    Nata Warlord

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    C3C Open.

    MA spoiler

    650AD - start of IA.
    770AD - researched SP, traded to America for Mil.Trad. as other powers already got it. Start Medicine.

    900AD - got Medicine before China, America & France, trade around for lots of gold but no tech trade. Aim for Electricity. Rome gone, Mongols destroyed by me & America.

    1100AD - Build ToE, take Atomic & Electronics.

    Amass Cavs/Infantries in former Mongol territory preparing to attack and maybe eliminate America.

    circa 1200AD - France attacks our Ivory town out of the blue :(. We had 3 towns on that island and France 1 town but lost one town to flip to France and another to Zulu which France later took from Zulu. So we have 1 town against 3 French ones in there.
    I have 3 infantries and barracks in there, and scores of French Cavs die on them without making a dent.
    I ally China and Hitties against them, bribe Pathetic Zulu to politeness with a gift of SaltPeter.

    Soon America joins the war on French side which gives me an excuse to take 2 of their cities, one in former Mongol territory and another on an island. America is now bloked beyound my choke-point town with 10 infantries in it. My, I've never seen so many units dying in a single turn! They would suiside maybe 20 units in a turn attacking my choke town, but next turn there will be 20 more coming! Sheesh!

    Meanwhile research is slow, I can't get less than 10 turns per Tech, and AIs are trailing behind.

    1320Ad - I take peace with France breaking China alliance 5 turns early, but China will be my UN rival anyway. I'm still allied with Hitties against America.
    France has Flight, I have Mass Prod and 10 turns till Tanks.

    1370AD - France learned Mot.Transp. 1 turn before me :mad:. Now China has Flight too but won't trade it to Mot.Transp.
    I deside to steal Flight from China. 3240 for safe steal, and it fails. :cry: But China doesn't declare.

    1375Ad - peace with America after our alliance with Hitties expires. Lots of gold freed with war weariness gone, I can make another safe steal attempt in 4 turns.

    1395Ad - WTF! Safe Steal attempt fails AGAIN, China dows. :mad: Flight in 8 turns. :( If I wasn't stealing I would have researched it by now. :cry:
    In other game I also had safe steal fail 2 times in a row. I'm just unlucky with this option, I guess.

    1435AD - Flight learned, enter Modern Age. Vow! France and China both learned Rockets and nothing else! So I have a chance for UN yet. Hitties are Modern with me but with no Tech. Fission due in 16, UN prebuild - in 18.
    Continuing lazy war with China as they are only bombing my Ivory town.

    1490Ad - UN built in Lyon. :cry:

    That was a humbling experience. I was so smug thinking I was doing so well in this game, but I was punished for my overconfidence. I traded Mass.Prod. around rather than holding on to it as I was sure I can still have Mot.Transp. monopoly. If only I had better luck with stealing I still might have won...

    Nevertheless I resolved myself to try for a spaceship. I maximized all my more or less core cities with Commercial docs, hospitals and research labs (losing Internet to China) and I still couldn't get less than 10-11 turns on a Tech.

    I managed keeping on par with China and France who were tech powerhouses (France had Copernicus and Seti and I had Newton) until the last two space techs: Synthetic Fiber and Robotics. I saw China get Robotics while I still was researching SF. I thought I would be able to finish it in time to trade for Robotics but suddenly China, France and badly beaten America had both Robotics and SF. :(

    And suddenly America who didn't have space resources appeared to have traded them from China. And as I was finishing couple of ICBM to attack America it launched - in the late 18th century.:cry:

    I lost with 7 parts of spaceship built and with missing maybe 4 research turns to trade and finish the missing parts. Jason was somewhere around 2900.
    But that was a great educational experience for sure.

    I said in the pregame thread that at least we can get even with Sid Civs in commerse if not in shields, but I was wrong. They could just irrigate everything and grow huge cities with specialists while I had to mine in the core cities to keep up with military and improvements. So they beat me badly in reasearch as well.

    The final picture (1784AD):
     

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  6. DJMGator13

    DJMGator13 Wondering why Builders can't build Roads

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    As I enter the IA the Mongols are a runway civ (see earlier spoilers for details). They are already up Military Tradition, Nationalism, Steam Power and Medicine. But the tech race is becoming the least of my problems. The Mongols are on their way to a domination victory unless someone can stand up to them. And that someone is not me. They have already eliminated America and have Rome down to a single city.

    As they finish off the Romans they declare on China next. I catch China up on a few techs in hopes that they can hold them off and even gift them some gold to see if they will upgrade any troops. China doesn’t upgrade troops but this war turns into a stalemate. But the Mongols aren’t done, they declare on the Zulus who are still in the AA. Again I gift them techs, resources and gold. But unlike China they spend the gold so for several turns in a row I gift close to 3000 gold to the Zulus, all of which was spent very fast. The Zulus never lost a city to the Mongols.

    So I have successfully headed off the Mongols domination attempt but my next concern is that they will win by culture before I can build the UN. Research wise I went Steam, Medicine, then electricity – guess what I’m heading for Scientific Method and TOE. If I can build it maybe I can catch up in techs.

    In 1290AD I manage to build TOE and select the standards (AT & Electronics). Mongols have monopoly prices on their techs so I wait a few turns before finally trading away AT. I do manage to get close to the Mongols tech wise after trading both the free techs but they quickly pull away. Mongols are looking better for a culture victory they have China more than doubled and are making more cpt. The race is now on to see if I can build the UN first. If the Mongols build it there will be no elections because they have been at war with everyone except me and I have not been at war at all.

    1300AD shows that I am only behind Replaceable Parts so this could be close. 1350 shows I’m down Refining, Steel and Espionage. The problem is that I’m researching around 10 turn rate and the Mongols are knocking them out in 4 to 5 turns even in Fascism. 1400AD I’m working on Refining and can no longer tell how far behind I am. Mongols continue to try the war route but I quickly catchup whoever they declare on and gift them resources. I actually gave rubber to the Hittites for free. I’m hoping someone can start being aggressive against the Mongols but that hasn’t happened yet.

    By 1450AD I’m getting encouraged slightly. I’m only down combustion that I can tell. But those hopes are soon dashed by 1500AD when I realize that the Mongols are already in the Modern Age and I’m still working on Motorized transportation. No one has taken the war to the Mongols and they crossed the 90K culture mark about this time.

    I accomplish 1 of my goals for this game when in 1540AD I enter the Modern Ages. To my surprise the Mongols do not have Fission. It will take me around 15 turns to research it and I need a few more turn to complete a prebuild because I only have enough cities to mandate a 700 shield palace. The game won’t last that long.

    In 1560AD I suffer a 100K culture loss. I only needed 15 more turns at this point to complete the UN. With all the trading and gifting I was doing in this game everyone was polite towards me, including the Mongols. I was close to a victory (2nd place in score) but it still goes down as a loss. But it was fun.
     
  7. The-Hawk

    The-Hawk Old Original Geezer

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    Wow, where to begin. I just finished a 418 turn marathon. And was one of the most addictive, nail biting games I’ve ever played. I kept a turn-by-turn log, turned out to be a 61 page word document! I’m pretty sure nobody wants to read that book, not sure how to go about capturing this experience. Rather than talk about when wars started and stopped, what techs I stole and traded, etc., I’ll pull some of the excerpts from my log where I was talking to myself about strategy. Might give an idea of my thought process and how futile I thought this was. There were probably 8-10 times where I was ready to abandon the game, but I decided to hold out and see how long I could hold off the inevitable. With these aggressive AI opponents, I was in tons of wars. But, only a handful were really strategic. After reaching IA, my game went through several major stages…

    1050-1350: War with Zulu for Ivory Island.

    1350-1650: Futile attempt to keep up with tech race. Hoping somehow to position for a UN win or even hold out for a points tie breaker.

    1600-1800: Bloody war with Mongols to kill UN and prevent them from achieving a 100K victory. To give an idea of this struggle, in 1635, the Mongols attacked one of my islands with Modern Armor, and I still could not produce tanks. In 1715, they were way ahead in the culture race, at a pace of 456 CPT, they were 52 turns from 100K, and I was still not in Modern Times.

    1800-end of game: A desperate, turn-by-turn race attempting to carve China’s culture so that I could launch a spaceship before they reached 100K. To give an idea of how desperate it was, in 1808 the Chinese had 85804 culture and was collecting 520 per turn. At that point, their ETA to 100K was 28 turns (they also had 1 spaceship part done, as did the Hittites). With 28 turns to defeat, I still needed to learn Fission (and discover uranium), Space Flight, Super Conductor, Nuclear Power, The Laser, Satellites, Computers, Miniaturization, and Robotics in order to launch. During this phase, I had a couple of critical side wars going… one to take Zulu’s aluminum island to stop the Hittites and Chinese space race, the second a constant battle to hold the ivory island with its rare uranium.

    So, before sharing the final outcome, here are some of my diary entries where I was trying to think through what to do. I switch to a bit of play-by-play at the end.

    700 AD: Into the Industrial Age!

    920: After my futile attempt to attack Hittite mainland, decide I may end up needing to go for Diplo or Space win. Building banks in most mainland cities to hedge my bets

    1100: Strategy check… Starting to fall behind on techs, so I’m skeptical about getting UN or spaceship. Thinking I may go for a strategy of disrupting the tech powers (Mongols and Chinese) and stealing all techs. May go to commie if I am in war all the time.

    1270: Strategy check, Chinese have infantry, Mongols, transports. I am getting really far behind in techs. Decide I’ll need to switch to commie, losing way too much gold on unit upkeep, need to start making more $ so I can steal techs. Starting to wonder how I can win this. Space race seems impossible, as does domination. I am not far behind in points, so a strategy may be to do spot wars to deny space race and try to survive to end and win on points. 2nd option may be diplo… I am currently second in pop, may be able to get elected if someone builds UN and holds elections.

    1305: Strategy check: I’m up to 21 % pop, will try to steal sanitation, build hospitals, irrigate, and go for 25% pop. Then make nice with everyone.

    1545: Strategy check: Not sure I see a way to win this… Mongols are building UN. Not sure I’ll even have second largest pop (but I may) and everyone is furious at me. Can’t imagine I can win space race, and China and Mongols both will reach 100K way before the end of the game. OK, plan A: If Mongols build UN, I’ll try to sign MPP’s with everyone, gift them stuff to improve relations, then goad Mongols into a war. Of course, I have no idea if there will be a vote. Plan B: failing that, will need to try to get to tanks and chip Mongols and China down so they can’t get culture.

    1565: Mongols finish UN in Karakorum. Since I don’t qualify for UN vote (China has more pop), I don’t see much point in starting a war with Mongols yet. Will continue to build pop and try to get to tanks. In the mean time, hopefully with all the wars underway, nobody will get elected.

    1670: Strategy check: Not seeing any way to win, but will keep slogging along. Maybe the AI’s will start nuking each other.

    1675: Decide to bump up entertainment slider to make more civilians happy. Might as well try to build some score before I lose. :cry:

    1680: Strategy check: Change of heart on trying to score by extra happiness. Decide the only way to win is to slow the Mongols down. Maybe if I can get ahead of the curve I can get some armies onto their mainland and raze a couple of cities. Need the Chinese to start working down the Mongols

    1715: Mongols send 4 wounded destroyers and a perfectly healthy battleship against my three wounded destroyers escorting the transports back… Mongols lose 3 destroyers and the battleship, I lose 1 destroyer. [Edit: OK, this wasn’t a very strategic entry, but it was a hoot.] :lol:

    1745: Strategy Check: China is almost about to pass me in points, and is starting to overtake Mongols on culture. However, I think I need to finish mauling the Mongols first. If I can clear up and settle most of their mainland, I’ll pick up in the points race. Hopefully, that leaves me time to go after China’s culture.

    1780: Becoming very concerned about China, but I want to finish off Mongol core. My plan is to send a massive invasion force to China and hope I can quickly raze several cities.

    1800: Mongols are now only growing culture by ~140 per turn, so they will not be a factor for 100K.

    1804: Raze Beijing, destroy spaceship (China had completed 5 parts). China now top in culture with 85284.

    1808: Chinese are quickly rebuilding cities as I raze them… they’ve already has founded a new city where I had razed Beijing... bet it isn’t getting 66 CPT like Beijing used to though. :mischief:

    1810: China is growing at 520 CPT, 26 turns to go. Attempt to steal fission from China with spy for 3516g: Success. I have one uranium on ivory island, send my 2 slaves to hook it up. Notice Hittites have 2 space parts built. Looks like Zulu have two aluminum, so if I get their island that shows one, I can take Hittites out of the space race. Mongols and Zulu are the only ones with aluminum besides me. Starting to think about trying to corner aluminum and going for space race myself. First need to finish knocking back Chinese culture.

    1834: China nukes Amsterdam. Lost market, stock exchange, factory, and a stack of 6 workers nearby. Only 3 workers left on mainland to clean up the mess.

    1836: Trying to hook up uranium on ivory island but it keeps getting bombed. Once I get it, gonna nuke the Chinese… revenge will be mine. :ar15:

    1840: Start pre-builds for nukes or space ship parts in 6 cities. Thinking I might need nukes to knock China’s culture back.

    1846: Uranium is hooked up, switch all prebuilds to nukes. Will switch them back to SS parts if I ever get China’s culture under control. Finish Apollo

    1854: Unable to overrun Xinjian, simply don’t have enough units in my stack. My “SOD” now consists of two badly wounded MA armies, 2 wounded MA’s and a bunch of arty. 16 turns until China 100K win.

    1858: Sending units towards Macao island. Probably not enough to do squat, but I have to try. At this point my mainland is almost unprotected. Haven’t been building units, focused on pre-build nukes. 14 turns to go.

    1860: Still need Superconductor and Robotics, and nobody has them. Start researching Superconductor for myself at full beakers… 21 turns just for Superconductor, then I need to do Robotics! Chinese down to 13 turns. Currently building all SS parts I have researched. Longest completion is 28 turns. Still building 6 nukes that will finish before Chinese reach 100K.

    1862: LOL, China has researched Superconductor. There still is hope! :banana:

    1864: Turn off research for 1 turn. Next turn will try to steal Superconductor, it will be do or die, no time to build gold for a second attempt. Then will go full beakers for Robotics. China now needs 14 turns to finish, first time I’ve added a turn to their ETA!

    Strategy check: Docking Bay Complete.
    Building: Storage/Supply (4 turns), Party Lounge (8 turns), Exterior Casing (15 turns), Thrusters (20 turns), Engine (10 turns), Cockpit (22 turns).
    To Go: Fuel Cells (160 shields), Life Support (320), Stasis (320)
    Amsterdam and ‘s-Graven can do the longer ones in 6 turns. Noordwijk can do Fuel Cells in 6. Can start ICBM’s as prebuilds 7-8 turns in advance. So, if I can steal Superconductor next turn, then it’s a matter of how long to research Robotics. Two ICBM’s up next turn, first chance to see how they will affect culture.

    1866: Wondering if nuking Hangchow will kill my spy… better steal first! Hold my breath, then attempt to steal Superconductor for 3660g: Success! Drop nukes on Hangchow and Tientsin, Zulu declare on us. Robotics in 22 turns, Chinese 13 turns from 100K.

    1868: Chinese only picked up 225 culture this turn, nukes did some good. They still have 13 turns to go, I have 21. Only two more Chinese major cities on mainland, then will need to go after rebuilt cities. However, I am getting very weak in both stacks.

    1872: Severe MM all cities, squeezing beakers where I can… Robotics down to 18 turns, Chinese have 13 turns until 100K. Two turns until I can attack Hispalis and Cumae, will have another shot at Neapolis next turn. Also have an ICBM due next turn.

    1874: Don’t know which city has the most CPT, can’t waste gold investigating. Decide to go for town with the most pop, so I drop nuke on Tatung. More MM, including having some cities at a food deficit. Now on pace for Robotics in 16 turns, although I won’t be able to sustain (will need to back off when pop is going to starve). Chinese have 12 turns to go.

    IBT: Chinese down to 139 CPT…. 16 turns to finish! Of course, they are still building temples, etc. in new cities. [Edit: This was the first point in the game where it actually occurred to me that I might win.] :crazyeye:

    1878: Last nuke didn’t help much, Chinese down to 134 CPT… a smidgen over 15 turns to go, but they will certainly make up the extra bit, so figure 15 turns. I have 13 turns on Robotics.

    1880: China down to 124 CPT, still need 15 turns. Robotics down to 12. Decide to split my tattered forces on Chinese mainland. Since arty is slow, I will send all arty with 2 armies and 2 MA’s one way, and let the other 2 armies and 5 MA’s go elsewhere… this way the second stack can take advantage of their speed and blitz more cities. I’m now at +34 commerce per turn, probably could go from 90% to 100% research, but I want to keep some money in case I need to upgrade my few defending tanks on mainland if invaded. Thinking the only way I lose is to lose Amsterdam or my uranium tile.

    1882: China down to 101 CPT, ETA 18 turns. Robotics in 11.

    1884: Chinese down to 98 CPT, still need 18 turns. Robotics in 10.

    1886: Chinese back to 101 CPT, now need 16 turns. Robotics in 9. Need to turn some beakers back to work to prevent starvation, still 9 turns to go.

    1888: Chinese still on 101 CPT, ETA 15 turns. Robotics in 8. Capture Nanking, near Chinese uranium. Decide to keep it in case I lose uranium on ivory island. Park my three armies there to hold it and heal.

    1890: Chinese back to 98 CPT, ETA still 15. Robotics in 7. Have killed all the Chinese mainland cities twice… and they have six units on my lightly defended Mongol island. So, I make peace. Start ICBM in Amsterdam…. Set it to finish in 9 turns. Robotics has 7 to go, will have 434 shields by then. Turn research up to 100%. Still will take 7 turns, but I’ll take the slack.

    1892: Mongols now have 4 parts. Don’t see how they will catch me, they don’t have Robotics yet.

    1894: 5 turns to go on Robotics. Start ICBM in ‘s-Graven as backup in case something happens in Amsterdam (can’t imagine what).

    1904: Finish Robotics, change Amsterdam to Stasis.

    1906: Space race victory, China finished with 99267 culture.

    :dance:

    What a rush, I have never played so close to the edge… attacking cities with badly wounded stacks, leaving many of my major cities virtually unprotected, rushing from battle to battle, sweating every beaker. For 400 turns, I truly thought I was going to lose…

    Check out Chinese culture on the status page: :eek:

    status cropped.JPG

     
  8. 7Losses

    7Losses Chieftain

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    Here is a quick recount of how the end of my game went.

    1180 (Or there abouts): Mongols Destroy America
    1260: Mongols finish Theory of Evolution.
    1380: Mongols finish Hoover Dam in Washington.
    1490: Mongols finish Manhattan project
    1500: Mongols finish United Nations
    1540: Mongols finish SETI & The Internet.
    1615: Mongols finally finish off China.
    1625: Mongol Demands a small "donation". Given that they own most of the world I gladly give it and wait for the inevitable.

    Do you notice a pattern here?

    Mongolia can now with easily by 100K, Space, or even domination. I thought earlier on that The Hitties may have made a 20K in their capitol but they will just miss it by a good 40 or so turns.
    They have almost destoyed Rome also.

    1640: Mongols make peace with Hitties
    1645: Hitties Declare war on Mongols. :cool:
    1680: Just for Fun I land 3 Infantry armies and about 30 other troops on Zulu. they promptly take them out in about 3 turns.

    1655: Mongols make peace with Rome, leaving them with about 5 cities left.
    1700: Mongol pass 100K Culture and no win????????
    1710: Mongols pass 102,000 Culture. Perhaps Hitties will win (Hope they do!)
    1730: Mongols pass 105,000. Rome Signs a mutual protection pact with Hitties. Unfortunately the Hitties are at war with the Monster Mongols. Which all but assures Romes death. Rome Declares on Mongols this turn.
    1740: Mongols pass 107,000.
    1754: I spot a Mongol Aegis Cruiser, this means they have Robotics. I have almost got flight! (And Zululand still don't have steel or refining! They are about and age and a half behind Mongolia.) They also have modern armour so they must be almost finshed the modern age. Which means a space age win shortly. I really hope Hitties pulls off a 20K win.

    1766: Mongols have 117,000 culture.
    1768: Mongols Demand a small bribe. I comply.
    1774: Blasted Mongols win the space race.

    America destroyed, China destroyed, Rome down to 2 cities I suspect they would have been destroyed next turn (It took 2 turns actually, as I played on). Hittie 20 turns or so from a 20K win.

    Curses. Mongols in space? What an outrage! Oh yeah, they finished with 121,000 culture. Any idea why they didn't get a culture win first? They were alsto 15% off domination with both land an population.

    As for me I fell miles behind in Tech and didn't even reach the modern age. I almost get Atomic Theory and still needed electronics to enter the modern age.

    Firaxis: 2294
    Jason: 1190


    Congrats T-Hawk on the nail biting win. Hey headblend, how did you get on?
     

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  9. denyd

    denyd Emperor

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    I'm still working on the 2nd write up but I'll chip in a Diplomatic Win in 1665 AD. I ended up using just about every trick I've learned or read about, from the wall of workers preventing the AI from landing on any of my islands, to formenting constant AI wars to keep them in Fascism/Commuism, to stealing a lot of the IA techs from the AI, to researching what the AI doesn't and selling it for lots of cash to steal the techs they won't trade. I also used the ally everyone against the most likely AI UN opponent (Mongols) to increase my chances of getting their vote and even then I managed to barely win with 5 of the 8 available votes.

    I got lucky in a couple of areas. First I managed to snag most of the rubber, so that only the lowest tech AI had any, which meant no infantry, tanks and most importantly no Marines. Second I was somewhat lucky in my espionage attempts. I was 10-2 in steals, but only 1-7 in spy planting attempts. And finally I got lucky that the Mongols went for Ecology and then Rocketry first and they could have easily built the UN before me if they had gone for Fission first. My final piece of good luck was that I never any of my SE home island cities to a flip as the Mongols were putting constant cultural pressure me with over 90K of culture. In my game America was able to stave off constant Mongol attacks. I did what ever I could to keep no AI from gaining too much land. Until I moved Temujin into Fascism, he was running away in the tech race.
     
  10. DJMGator13

    DJMGator13 Wondering why Builders can't build Roads

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    Great finish Hawk.

    I look forward to denyd's writeup as well.
     
  11. Nata

    Nata Warlord

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    Denyd, The-Hawk - three cheers for your wins! So it IS possible to win this thing. :)
     
  12. Offa

    Offa Bretwalda

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    Well it is over at last.
    The much bloodied dutch, despite near constant attacks have launched in 1886, for a very low Jason score.

    As I said in the earlier spoiler I had wiped out the Mongols and Americans relatively early. I had hoped to roll over the others with cavalry after this.

    It would have been a lot better but for the Chinese reaching infantry 2 turns before I was going to capture their only source of rubber. Of course I was nowhere near them scientifically at that stage so I didn't know where the rubber was. I suppose I could have pressed on for domination then against the more backward AI, but frankly I just couldn't face another full scale war.

    I eventually did put the Zulu out of their misery. They had been all alone in their island, and had accumulated a fabulous number of impis swords and med inf. Even with infantry it was fairly tricky.

    I can once more confirm that the AI are happy to attack armies if they have nothing else to attack.

    It was steals most of the way (all steal from China):
    success
    fail
    fail
    success
    fail
    fail
    fail
    fail
    fail (at which point I was pretty disheartened)
    success
    fail

    Then I had espionage and later attempted were all with vet spies after I revotled to communism: an agreeable govt when you have 40+ % land and 50+% pop.

    fail
    success
    success
    success
    success
    fail
    fail
    success
    fail
    success
    success
    fail
    success

    The early steals were mostly immediate attempts, and earned me a lot of wars. It was pretty close to a dogpile against me at times. Later on my economy started to pick up, so that at 100%tax I made ~1400gpt, enough for a safe steal every 3 turns or so. Eventually I just pulled ahead in science.

    Not an easy game for me though. Maybe it would have been easy with a more aggressive start. I was quite close to rolling over the AI, and they only just stopped me.
     
  13. Chamnix

    Chamnix Chasing Time

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    To win with 100K culture, you also have to have more than twice as much culture as anyone else. Someone else must have had at least 60,500 culture.
     
  14. The-Hawk

    The-Hawk Old Original Geezer

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    Location:
    West Chester, PA


    :lol: You mean to tell me I just ran myself ragged trying to keep China from 100K and they were still 70K from a culture win (pretty sure Mongols had 85K)? :rotfl:

    Guess I should have read the manual closer, could have saved myself some unnecessary stress! ;)

    Oh well, it was still a win, and I had a blast!
     
  15. Rustwork

    Rustwork Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Messages:
    138
    open class

    reading some of these reports and i have concluded that my AI was running on a hamster wheel for the entire game.

    i don't remember many specifics. i was too frantic while playing and stopped taking notes. I have a detailed AA write-up. i cruised into the MA as the dominant civ.

    i was able to get maps from china early and used this to my advantage with an all out expansion. at some point in the MA i had control of the string of islands leading to the ivory. i controlled this island and the small one next to it. i controlled the two NW islands, the island just off our coast, and 4 of the northern islands in succession. except for razing two roman cities for control of the tiny island next to the ivory, all of this were original settlements.

    america and the mongols were at war from the time i met them well into the MA. peace came after a total stalemate. late in the game america went on a rampage and declared on me taking one city on a northern island, which i was able to reclaim. they wiped-out the mongols. i tried through RoP to protect an island the mongols had, but mistakenly left a square open for the americans, my workers were no match for their military. :( because mongols were an ally that i needed for a vote i gifted them a city near the ivory just before america overran them. america would start after china then and be at war on and off with every civ until the end. only capturing a few chinese cities.

    late in the AA i got china into a war with rome, and rome soon banished them to a few islands north of their original territory. and they both staled from there.

    i blocked all of zulu's sea routes. they had no contact with the rest of the world for such a long time and were so far behind. curiously in the IA they were polite because of my generous gifts and despite my clear dominate position they took advantage of my mistake leaving open a path in the ocean and they landed some archers which were quickly slaughtered; i also sunk their galleys in retreat. (maybe they took offense to my blockade?)

    france and the hittites were mostly peaceful. france grew to be my greatest threat. they easily kept pace and became the tech leader during the IA.
    they both got into some minor confrontations, but militarily they where ineffective.

    i went mostly undefended throughout the AA. i was trading alot with every civ and maintained a power balance so maybe this accounts for their peaceful ways. i blocked all coastal squares with workers and units so no civs could invade. many boats came to my shores, but could find no space to invade. this exploit is rather unrealistic, but it's allowed and saved my butt.

    the late MA and entire IA was frantic. civs where making alliances and breaking alliances nearly every turn. i couldn't even keep track. i focused on keeping my friends happy. indentifying the the likely U.N. rival (america) and making sure i could win the vote. i was at war with every civ except china, france, and mongols at least once. these wars were usually quick and harmless.

    i started an early prebuild for the U.N.; luckily france researched computers, and rocketry first.

    a turn before the U.N. i got RoP, MPP, Alliance vs. America -- whatever it took.

    the game ended in 1575AD with a unanimous (except america) U.N. victory
    8613 Firaxis / 7325 Jason. pleased i survived, but not with the score.

    at the end:
    france leads in tech with 3 Modern Age techs
    china just entered the Modern Age.
    america is in the late IA (at war)
    hittites and rome are in the late IA
    mongolia is in the early IA
    zulu would still be the the MA if not for my gifts.

    america is closest domination rival with 21% pop and area.

    america is closest cultural rival at 50750; and washington at 9715.

    no spaceship parts built.

    my research rate late game was awful, france would have probably built a spaceship before me, or else i would have had to slog through a big war to prevent it. i doubt they could have won a U.N. vote so they probably wouldn't have called for one.

    as it goes i think i benefited greatly from a peaceful early game. i prevented invasion and wildly tried to survive. with luck beating france to the U.N. (they where building it when i go it)

    overall a fun first sid attempt to bad everyone is playing civIV now. :(

    congrats to all participants. win or lose.
     
  16. Offa

    Offa Bretwalda

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,255
    Location:
    Mercia
    Well now that this mess of a game is finally over I can reflect a little more on what I did wrong. I haven't played such a wishy washy unfocused game since gotm20, but at least any win at Sid feels good, and I did battle against my own bad start and some indifferent (but not improbable) luck.

    I think accurate early play (as I had planned in my spreadsheet, but not as I played) with very aggressive early expansion and exploration and a monarchy slingshot as described by many in the early spoiler was the way to go. It never occurred to me to block access routes with galleys and this would have helped. Building the Great Library was a mistake as this is much better captured, and keeping up with techs early on appears possible with trading. If the GL is captured then it can be given up before education and then a second slingshot achieved later.

    Doing all this it seems a pre 1000ad domination should be fairly easily achievable, instead of getting hopelessly bogged down like me. With a little leader / stealing / wonder luck very early wins would be possible. It will be interesting to see what the best scores are. Based on the early spoilers some players were well on course by the start of the middle ages.


    After the initial expansion the predator handicap doesn't seem too bad. As I stuffed up the expansion anyway:blush: I wish I had played predator.
     
  17. denyd

    denyd Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2001
    Messages:
    6,608
    Location:
    Chino Hills, CA
    The final steps of William’s plan for victory were now in play. With the discovery of Medicine in 880 AD, William had a monopoly technology to finance his thefts. A careful theft of Steam Power would allow him to complete the improvements of his landscapes and with the sale of Medicine for over 1200g and nearly 250gpt, his future research was now financed. He was now able using optional technologies to acquire the missing luxuries from China, America and France. Another theft, Industrialization from Mongols, costing 1800g was immediately turned into 910g & 82gpt from America. While research continued on the lower path, the Mongols continued to research the other paths. In 960 AD, France and the Mongols signed peace and for the first time in quite a while the world was at peace. Another pair of steals (Corporation & Refining) combine with a trade for Electricity left William on the verge of discovering Scientific Method. In 1100 AD, his tech pace would slow dramatically as the Mongols declared war on America and the Mongols moved to Fascism. In America because of Universal Suffrage, they stayed as Republic longer and they took over the tech lead before they revolted to Fascism. A trade of Refining to America for 236gpt and to China for three luxuries would provide the next technology for the Dutch. While all of this had been going on, quietly William had been gifting obsolete technology to Rome, France and the Zulu in preparation for a future vote. In 1170 AD the major component of the final phase completed as the discovery of Scientific Method was timed to meet the build of the Theory of Evolution netting Atomic Theory and Electronics. Scientific Method quickly emptied the treasuries of America and the Mongols (1000g & 350gpt) and acquired nationalism and espionage. A careful steal of Replacement Parts led to the beginnings of a homeland defense force with the replacement of the worker wall with infantrymen. In 1270 AD Amsterdam completed the Hoover Dam and Utrecht completed the Intelligence Agency and using the additional productivity began adding defenders to prepare for the soon appearance of marines.

    At this point William received the most welcome news he could have expected. Through a combination of luck and aggression, William had cornered the market on rubber, with only Rome and the Hittites (both backward nations) having any source not in under his control. The fear of facing marines was relieved. Now it was a matter of getting a timed pre-build for the United Nations and to carefully stealing his way to the modern age.

    In 1300 AD, Combustion (2780g) was carefully stolen and traded for sanitation plus a hunk of gold. After a couple of failed spy plants and steal attempts (all careful), Flight was stolen from the Mongols and with the sale of Atomic Theory (3800g + 275gpt + 3 luxuries), William’s treasury was refilled to prepare for future steal attempts. Another pair of small wonders (Battlefield Medicine & Wall Street) were completed as William prepared for the final steps in the Industrial Age. After a trio of failed attempts a spy was planted in Beijing (the only successful plant of the game). The sale of Flight to America for 1490g + 158gpt revealed a lack of oil for America. All was moving smoothly when in 1415 AD China declared war on me and attacked William’s only vulnerable city (how’d he know that wink-wink). Lucky for William the three infantrymen held off the eight attacking cavalry and produced Abel Tasman, the first and only MGL of the game. Abel’s Army of Infantry quickly provided a base of attack on the linked Chinese city and in 1520 AD with expiration of numerous alliances peace with signed with China. During the war, the Military Academy and Heroic Epic were completed and Mass Production was stolen from America. A trade with Mongols obtained Motorized Transportation and the race was on for Fission.

    Once again William got lucky as the only other Modern Age nation (Mongols) researched Rocketry and Ecology while he researched Fission. Using a timed pre-build in Utrecht, the Dutch completed the United Nations in 1660 AD. Now it was time to create a voting bloc. First William traded Fission to the Mongols getting 3450g and 4 technologies. Then war was declared on Temujin and his Mongol horde. Using the gold acquired from the Mongols, Williams signed allegiances with all the other nations against the Mongols and when the vote was called it was William against Temujin: As the ballot results were read with 5 votes needed for victory, William sat hoping for success.

    William: William (1-0)
    Temujin: Temujin (1-1)
    Caesar: William (2-1)
    Shaka: William (3-1)
    Lincoln: William (4-1)
    Mao: Abstain (4-1-1)
    Mursilis: Abstain (4-1-2)
    And finally the lovely Joan voted for William and he was elected world leader: 5-1 with 2 abstains

    [Editors Note: Diplomatic Victory in 1665 AD in 35 Hours 50 minutes - Firaxis score: 8270 – Jason score 6921]
     
  18. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    3,198
    Location:
    Eindhoven, the Netherlands
    While playing, I documented my actions, decisions and reasons behind those decisions in a txt file. This file ended up being almost a book so I wrote a more compact report after completing the game. The original file is added for anyone interested.

    Before the granary, I built one curragh for exploration.
    I build 2 more early curraghs in other cities and by 1600BC I had all contacts.
    Amsterdam became settler factory of course.

    I researched writing at min, then philosophy at max.
    I chose Code of Laws for my free tech and then started a min research on Republic. Monarchy didn't seem very interesting to me.
    I thought maybe republic would be good later on when my cities would be developed. This turned out to be a mistake as I have not used any other other government than despotism and my cities never became developed. (by choise, not by inability) I should have taken construction for free. It could have gotten me into the middle ages much earlier.

    When I explored the world and met all Civ's, I recognised the structure of the map and the opportunity to prevent the AI from meeting eachother.
    I built a sizable naval force, and stationed boats on some critical spots to block the AI's sea routes. Keeping them isolated turned out much easier than I expected. i also incited some wars between the neighbouring AI's to keep them off my back, but that also turned out not to be needed. The AI's that were alone on their islands didn't bother me either.

    Isolating the AI's pretty much stopped their research. Most of them didn't reach the middle ages. Some got a few early middle age technologies.
    Therefore, I also didn't invest anything in research. I only researched with 1 scientist and got most of my technologies from the AI both by fair trade and by backstabbing after offering gpt.

    I built minimal city improvements in this game. I have built no Libraries, no Markets and only few granaries and temples. All the gold I got is used on upgrading warriors first to swordsmen and later medieval infantry. Luxuries were in available in abundance so I didn't need the luxury slider a lot troughout this game.

    QSC stats:
    14 towns (11 on mainland, 3 on islands)
    57 Citizens.
    4 luxuries in control.
    All non optional except Construction
    2 Settlers
    15 workers (did some city joins already)
    16 vet Swordsmen
    13 vet warriors
    522 gold
    5 galley
    2 curragh

    Shortly after 1000BC, I had upgraded a decent number of swordsmen and started my military actions. I first placed an outpost on the American Iron deposit with about 8 swords and 12 catapults. I catapulted and destroyed any incomming units to provide me unit upgrades and great leaders.
    I got 3 great leaders here in the following years: 310BC, 50BC, 290AD.
    The first one was used to reenforce this outpost. The second was send to be stationed on France Iron. The third was used for the forbidden palace.

    925BC I carefully started my war against the Mongols. I first took their island cities before I landed on their mainland. It was 150BC when I conquered the first city on their mainland. I didn't have very many units yet, so it was a bit of a struggle and I wanted to keep the conquered cities for the powerfull wonders they contained. (Pyramids, ToA, Lighthouse, Sun tzu)
    After I conquered all of Mongolia by 230AD, I imeadiately moved on to America. I had 200 total units at this point. I have made and broken many alliances in my campain against the Mongols and America to obtain technology and to make them fight eachother. Read the added file if you want more details. The American conquest was conpleted by 460AD. I had 281 units at that time. (mostly trebs, MI and galleys) I had no luck on the leaders though, I did not get any more units during my conquest on the Mongols and America. During the conquest on America, I also started conquering the archipel north of the Chinese/Roman continent.
    I was able to get the early middle age techs from the Americans before I destroyed them and upgraded my units to medieval infantry and trebuchets.

    I ICSed the Mongol/American island as soon as I conquered it. The pyramids provided fast growth there. ToA provided enough culture to compete with the SID AI's culture. The Lighthouse enabled much more efficient transporting.
    Pop rushing in these cities provided significantly more production than my core. Sun Tzu made sure i pop rush only veteran units. I also needed the cities to provide unit support for my ever growing number of units.
    These were the 2 reasons to stay in despotism. I did some extensive calculations on Feudalism and decided that it would not be worth swiching.
    If you are interested in macro-economic calculations on such subjects, read the added text file.

    Since Rome had been at war with China, they both did not have insane number of units. Therefore, only those units from the American conquest were transported to Rome and newly produced units were gathered for an invasion on the Hittites. The conquest on Rome was rather easy, I also got 2 new leaders now. I used the gift city trick to transport these home so that I could use one for the Hittites conquest and one for the Zulu later. I had conquered Rome by 620AD and the last Chinese city was conquered in 690AD. At this point I had 479 units and I had just started my campain against the Hittites. The force that had now conquered the Mongols, America, Rome and China was running thin on Mellee units, so I reeinforced it with MI and an army before invading the Zulu.

    After killing 105 Hittite units, i get too bored of this to continue.
    I expect to win by conquest around 1000AD but i will not finish this game.
    Those 30 turns could easilly take another 20 boring hours to play.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2003
    Messages:
    3,198
    Location:
    Eindhoven, the Netherlands
    And the files.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Offa

    Offa Bretwalda

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    1,255
    Location:
    Mercia
    Great game Wacken, even if posting here presumably invalidates you from finishing even if you could bear it :p .

    Your game sounds a lot like mine was supposed to go (I wish). I captured leo's workshop so I think a cash rushing govt was OK for me. I think in retrospect though that I shouldn't have bothered with knights/cav and had just built up a really solid army of MI and swiss mercs. With the $$$ wasted in failed steals I could have upgraded a lot of spears/warriors.

    You obviously did a great job keeping up with tech: not easy as far as I can tell. I couldn't extract anything for peace or for gpt.

    Conquering very quickly is clearly the best way. It presumably would have been tough if the opposition developed rifles or :eek: infantry (as happened to me, although I was much slower).
     

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