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COTM48 - Final Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Game of the Month' started by civ_steve, May 14, 2008.

  1. civ_steve

    civ_steve Chieftain Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,866
    Location:
    formerly Santa Clarita, California

    COTM 48 Final Spoiler; Game Submitted




    Reading Requirements:
    You may only read this thread if:
    1. You have completed and submitted your game.


    Posting Restrictions:
    1. None! As long as its related to the GOTM, and within the forum rules!
    2. And ... Absolutely NO discussion of any other active 'X'OTM contest!

    Many games will go into the Industrial Age (or later) - how did your game finish?
     
  2. DWetzel

    DWetzel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,262
    Entry class: Open
    Game status: Spaceship Victory for Byzantines
    Game date: 1886 AD
    Firaxis score: 3871
    Jason score: 3053

    Yes, another spaceship win. But this one was MUCH more interesting than the last ones, including a photo finish!

    In the early Industrial Ages, I encountered a significant problem. Having cleared the Ottomans off my island, I still had no horses or saltpeter native, and the age of cavalry was upon us. Intermittent trades for horses allowed me to at least get some knights along with my medieval infantry and crusaders. (Naturally, I got Steam Power as my free tech, negating Knights Templar. Grr.) At least I had coal! And I had an explanation for the Indian city in the jungle too--that was a second source of coal.

    I was a few techs behind India, and was holding pace with them at that rate. My hope was to catch India via the ToE and trading thereafter. That didn't go so well, as India got ToE as I was trying to get Sci Method! ACK!

    This could not stand. I had to get India under control and quickly. So I gathered my ragtag band, which by now included about 25 knights, some crusaders, and a few medieval infantry, and went to war with India. Knights against riflemen (and later infantry) was not an ideal thing, needless to say. I rooted them off the northwest corner of the island easily enough. The battle for the southern grasslands was bloodier. Medieval infantry against regular infantry is NOT a fun fight. Happily, at least India didn't have much offense.

    Then, disaster struck (again!) Spain, who I'd been at a semi-phony war with (they were a target of my dromons, who I forgot to mention FINALLY kicked off my Golden Age around 1050 AD--I'd secured a few alliances against them about 15 turns eariler to try to beat them down, since they were the largest in terms of land area), landed a stack of cavalry just to the west of my capital. ALL my military was to the south. So, I had to make peace with them (good news: they were behind in tech, I gave them Medicine for peace I think), breaking multiple military alliances in the process. Not good.

    Meanwhile the war with India was going fairly well. I'd actually razed a couple of metros that had sprung up, and was going for the kill on the next to last city when I got the scare of the game so far: a TANK appeared in the Indian city! :aargh: Fortunately, there was only one, and I was able to vanquish it via the always popular medieval infantry and longbowman - on - tank violence. Not quite :spear:, but close. Having gotten the Indians off the island, I quickly made peace, actually picking up a tech along the way.

    Savvy trading caught me part of the way up, though my military situation was still less than ideal. At least I had basically secured the island with the exception of the silks in the northeast (but England and I were on good terms for most of the game, allowing me to trade for those) and the one city in the far southwest. I still had hopes for a diplomatic win, and got a prebuild leisurely going for the UN.

    At one point I managed to secure saltpeter in trade with Arabia, which allowed me to get a nice stack of cavalry. That and a stack of about 20 artillery would keep the island safe for the rest of the game. A later war with Arabia resulted in the familiar pattern: stack of destroyer-destroyer-frigate-transport (or similar) appeared at shores. Stack of cavalry (and later some tanks) landed on island. Artillery bombs stack down to 1hp each. Cavalry attacks and finishes off wounded stack. No leaders emerged (my promotion luck TO elite was awful, and of course twice elite cavs went down to a 1hp defending tank.) Meanwhile, Arabian bombers would fly over, often getting shot down by fighters and mobile SAMs. I wasn't getting off the island, but Arabia wasn't getting anywhere either, and I was also able to bombard some ships as well. World War I emerged at some point, with Spain, England, and Arabia merrily blowing each others ships up in the water as I'd snipe at the stronger Arabs with artillery ahead of time. Oh, I love cruise missiles for finishing off wounded ships.

    Enter the Modern Ages. I get... Fission! Sweet! :goodjob: Switch prebuild to UN. Roughly 8 turns to go. India had started the UN build, but I thought I had enough time. A couple pollution events slowed things down... and ONE turn from completion, in 1768, India builds the UN in Delhi. :cry:

    Chances of me getting the UN from India? Uh, no.

    Time for Plan D--which is, unfortunately, space. It's that or lose.

    Discovering Rocketry revealed that that pesky source of dyes in the far northeast was also the source of uranium on the island and TWO sources of aluminum. Conveniently, at that same time Arabia took one of England's two cities and razed the other. That allowed me to rush a settler and grab a dye and aluminum for myself. :clap: It also let me observe that India had neither aluminum nor uranium--though uranium was one space across the border into Ottoman territory. (This was TRULY a game of inches in so many ways). Between my extra coal source (which evaporated early in the modern, naturally) and extra horses and iron from conquering my island, I was able to get a decent supplementary income which was allowing me to catch up in tech with India, and stay ahead of everyone else who COULD build a spaceship.

    A brief war with Arabia secured the uranium and second aluminum source, and presto, the space win was in sight. What could go wrong? :rolleyes:

    Well, number one, I got a little cocky. I sold India my spare aluminum for a huge sum, hoping to stunt their tech growth and speed up my own. Them building a few space parts wasn't a big deal, since they couldn't build the others without uranium.

    Then, the RNG struck again. Getting one of the newer techs, I noticed I couldn't build SS thrusters. Huh? Have tech. Have Apollo. Have alumin-- er, I don't have aluminum? One of my two sources of aluminum evaporated! :mad: Having renewed the deal with India for huge cash before that, I had about 10 turns of either going to war with India (and risking all), or waiting it out. I decided to wait. Meanwhile, I gathered some cash, and planted a spy successfully in Delhi. I also managed to score the Internet (just ahead of India), helping research along nicely. I was making about 250 gpt at a 100% research rate after my various sales of resources and tech.

    Calmly building my spaceship parts (and safely stealing Superconductor from India for about 3600g), I got the message that India had completed SS Thrusters. Hey, don't those require uranium--OH NO! :eek: India got uranium in trade! And they secured aluminum too! I looked on in horror at the spy screen in the spaceship screen--India had 5 parts built, 2 in production. They were up Synthetic Fibers on me. The space win had turned back into a space race!

    I did what any self-respecting ruler would do: stole Synthetic Fibers. I built up to 7 spaceship parts, with two to complete in 1 turn and my capital the last part in 3. Severe micromanaging resulted in the capital getting the last SS part in 2, at a cost of 6 food per turn with 13 in the box. Then I checked the spy screen again: India 9(1)/10. They were in the process of building the LAST PART also! Yoiks!

    When all else fails, and the enemy is halfway around the world, there is only one option left. So, I did what any self-respecting tyrant would do: I built a tactical nuke. And rushed an ICBM from a random stock exchange that was being built. I declared war on India. I allied everyone else in for tech. And I sent the tactical nuke at New Delhi (a size 25 city on the small island between me and England), and the ICBM for Old Delhi, hoping that someone would take out their capital and the Apollo program. I didn't get THAT lucky, but they did stop building that last ship part. ;) A couple more nukes -- built at the rate of 25 cavalry = 1 ICBM ;) ) the next turn made sure their other production centers didn't get any ideas, and I just had to push enter and win the game... except that in one final reaming by the RNG, reminiscent of the UN fiasco, the capital had pollution, missing the final SS part by 4 shields. I MMd back so it wouldn't starve the last turn, and pushed Enter and launched.


    Phew! It won't be a great score, but any victory in that sort of race was just fine with me.
     
  3. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    373
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    Entry class: Open
    Game status: Spaceship Loss to India
    Game date: 1828 AD
    Firaxis score: 2807
    Jason score: 1201
    Time played: 34:47:29


    I finish evicting the Ottomans from my island and make peace in 1410, for which they give me one more town on the two-square island to the northwest. Now England has a row of cities on the northeastern coast of my island and India has one at the northern end and one more at the southern end. But both are far ahead of me in science and I don't want to mess with them. I don't have saltpeter and can't get it in trade.

    Arabia destroys France in 1500.

    While continuing their futile war with Arabia, England and India begin taking the cities on the Spanish island. I join this war against Spain in 1595 (the same year that India completes the UN) and ultimately take the central swath of the island, including the oil resource in the south. India takes most of the east coast. Pamplona revolts from my control and I fail to cover one square while preparing to counterattack; India exploits this opening to take it and the west coast. I complete the destruction of Spain in 1710 and sign an MPP with India. India already has an MPP with England and I don't want either of them at war with me.

    And in 1715, India goes to war with the Arabs again, dragging me into the war. But the Arabs don't send any forces my way and I don't have any to send theirs. That's fine with me. I'm content to rebuild my reserve, including tanks, starting in 1758.

    India calls the first UN vote in 1756. They have England's vote, I have my own and the Arabs and Ottomans abtain.

    In 1770, India lauches a surprise attack against their long-time ally England and I'm pulled into the war because of the MPP. I deflect England's first attack, use my artillery and explorers to raze all of England's border squares and then start razing their cities that I long wanted to see wiped off my island. I give the Ottomans rubber in exchange for an MPP. Might they get friendly enough to throw a vote my way?

    No. The second UN vote in 1778 gives India the Ottoman vote, while England and Arabia abstain and I vote for myself again.

    My war weariness builds, so I revolt in 1780 and switch to Monarchy in 1794. I had bypassed the research for Communism and Fascism and couldn't get either in trade. Peace with Arabia comes in 1784.

    The third UN vote in 1800 has the same result as the previous one.

    I go back to war with the Arabs in 1794, when they attack the Ottomans, then go to war with the Ottomans in 1800 when they attack the Indians! (Yes, they had just voted for India in the UN vote! Maybe they don't like backing a loser?) But in both cases, these MPP-induced wars are strictly phony.

    I enter the Modern Age in 1804 and get ecology as our bonus tech.

    In 1810, I finally get my first MGL/Army! The last English city on my island is razed in 1814.

    I consider a DOW against India, in the hope of forging new alliances that might swing UN votes my way, but I discard the notion, since I don't have the force to stand against an Indian counterattack. And it turns out that India doesn't call another UN vote anyway, presumably because they know they don't have the votes of those they're at war with. Did they only call the previous votes because I might have given them a victory if I had voted for them instead of myself???

    I research computers in 1826 and begin upgrading units to MI, but the end comes (completely unexpectedly, since I have no spies) in 1828, with the launch of the Indian space ship.

    But who cares about that? Without the space ship bonus, I was on track to win a histograph victory, if the game had only gone to the limit! ;)

     
  4. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    995
    Location:
    a ski lift in Cali
    Predator, going for fast Diplo win.

    I loved the barbs, they were swell. :rolleyes:

    I'm a little balder now after tearing out half my scalp over those exasperating barbs. Was this map specifically edited to put the iron and horse tiles halfway across the continent? :mischief: Having no swords or horseman for most of BC was heinous.

    I settled in place, built a couple of warriors, and then built an early settler. My next city was founded near the southern wheats in a 4-turn settler factory location. I gambled by then building granaries in both my initial cities before I built much military and the barbs made me pay. Dearly. There were so many barb horseman running around the starting area that I think my QSC stats were something like 5 cities. Wahoo! :cringe: I simply could not keep enough warriors alive to protect my settler factories and escort new settlers. Of course I didn't research Bronze Working for spears because I was going for the Republic sling.

    I WAS pleasantly surprised to get the Republic sling when I researched Philo quite late around 950BC. All contacts were made around this time and I was able to get into the Middle Ages around 700BC. Of course that set off the big barb uprisings. :suicide: Even with three 4-turn settler factories running in Republic, I was not able to settle the starting continent for a very, very long time.

    The rest of the game was a mish-mash of terrible, hurried decisions. I used peace renegotiation to get a lot of war happiness, but I also managed to involve myself in wars at all the wrong times as a result. Perhaps I've just gotten in a rut by playing all the recent COTM for fast conquest victories, but my diplomatic touch this game was less kid glove and more Jerry Springer.

    I also failed miserably by not securing enough land for specialist farms, so my Industrial Age research was painfully slow. I did lots of other stupid things, I don't need to rehash, but what I'm saying is that even though the RNG wasn't super kind to me, I deserved my poor finish date. Pre-1000AD was entirely possible with better play.

    Entry class: Predator
    Game status: Diplomatic Victory for Byzantines
    Game date: 1345 AD
    Firaxis score: 6584
    Jason score: 7421
    Time played: 18:03:29
     
  5. PrinceMyshkin

    PrinceMyshkin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    830
    Location:
    Asheville, NC
    Entry class: Predator
    Game status: Spaceship Victory for Byzantines
    Game date: 1590 AD
    Firaxis score: 7945
    Jason score: 7021
    Time played: 37:16:52

    The barbs certainly did slow down expansion. At the start of the IA it took 14 turns to research industrialism and another 24 to get corporation, steel, and refining. Research was financed by making gpt deals in tech trade with the ai. By 1000AD, I had colonized all the unclaimed sites, including grabbing gems and saltpeter on the French/Arab island. Spain was very weak so I joined a dogpile on them to claim most of their island although a couple of towns there flipped to the culturally strong Indians. I renogiated peace with England to get war happiness with an ma against the Spanish just before they died. This allowed me to claim most of England including all their silk.

    By the time the English war ended around 1100AD, I was finally able to research IA techs in 4 or five turns. When I finished flight the ai still had not researched medecine or electricity. On the turn I completed medecine, I was able to trade for electricity and then researched atomic theory and electronics in about 5 turns each. I didn't get any more help in the IA and beat the ai's by a turn or two to mass production and motorized transportation, entering the modern age in 1395AD timing a pre-build for the ToE to complete that turn. I gifted the Ottomans up and they got ecology, while I took computers and miniaturization as free tech and got fission for free as well. The next turn I completed the Internet and was able to research all the modern age techs in 4 or 5 turns after Seti completed in Constantinople.

    I had planned to trade for ecology after getting nuclear power, but the Ottomans declared war on me instead. I quickly cleared them from the continent with cavs, artillery and bombers as well as a few new tanks. A short 5 turn war ensued and I signed an ma with India and France against them as well to help with their navy. Just before they were destroyed, I managed to safely steal ecology from them with a spy after failing a couple of turns before. By the time I finished the laser, the ai got rocketry and I had hopes they may go for space flight and satellites as well. No such luck as India declared war on France and they both went fascist and were no further help in the modern age. After the laser, I researched robotics-synthetic fibers-space flight-superconductor-satellites completing parts and the apollo program on the turns they were available for a spaceship victory in 1590AD still about 200 tiles from domination. A tough game that could have gone a little better with luck. Good luck to all the other players:)
     
  6. DWetzel

    DWetzel Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,262
    Wow, that's an impressive time (at least to me), Myshkin. Did you have any problems with AI on your island?
     
  7. PrinceMyshkin

    PrinceMyshkin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Messages:
    830
    Location:
    Asheville, NC
    ^^
    Other than them taking up space, not really. It was mostly the Ottomans with a few Indian towns. I had to build quite a bit of culture there to hold the tiles. I was able to claim the horses and the coal before the ai. When the Ottos declared on me, they didn't have horses, so they didn't even attack there before they were removed in the counterattack.
     
  8. axehaxe

    axehaxe Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    473
    Open class (Arch + Demigod =~ Pangea Sid in terms of difficulty)

    Start w/out pottery so build 2 warriors and a settler.

    Settle flood plains and food bonuses to create artificial settler factories

    RCP strategy w/ CxxC placement and expanding by building a growing cluster of cities

    barbs destroy 1 of my settlers and took 250 gold at one point... (9 cities?) but still doing well overall, will get revenge

    settle the two luxuries

    Shooting for Republic Slingshot instead of GL (learned my lesson from GOTM 38)

    Get to philosphy first and get code of laws then start 50 turn research on republic

    Build first coastal city + curragh & meet France but try to wait to meet other civs before trading up my writing for their other techs (mistake)

    They get writing the next turn so I trade my philosophy & code of laws for a bunch of their other techs. Deal sucks knowing no other civ yet but better than losing it all to time.

    Meet Ottomans & Indians eventually. Then England. Then Arabia & Spain. Get pretty good deals off of them. Middle Ages.

    Republic

    out-expand all AI around 350 BC (Nevertheless, My continent is so big can't stop AI from sharing a couple of small pieces of it like the top jut and the south east beaches)

    Spain suddenly uses ROP rape and takes one of my empty cities. I promise myself to be at war with them for the entire remaining game or until they become my b*tch.

    Use Dromon to blow up a Spanish galley and start a golden age

    Golden age kinda sucks though because it was triggered too soon after switching to republic, still can use the extra shields to get temples and store cash up without using ANY of it.

    Retake the northern city very quickly.

    Arabia demands incense, refuse, war

    Sign MA w/ France to kick their butt and they do with cavalry. They sign peace treaty with Arabia having only 4 cities left on their continent.

    Golden Age ends, almost an entire tech age behind India. Spain is the only civ that is more backwards at this point.

    Supply Ottomans with my only horses (so they can make siphai's) to balance power against India for the future war.

    Begin self researching the military tradition path beeline and trade with Spain's astronomy through TOG beeline, not bad...

    Begin prebuild for TOE as soon as AI starts building Newtons

    AI begins Univ Suffr build

    India is currently looking dangerous (as always :rolleyes:) with lots of culture, no fights, and a unopposed direction to that win. So I declare war on them and get Ottomans to screw up their perfectly soft :satan: democracy.

    Other Civs - France, England, and Arabia join the dogpile

    Initially I lose 2 of my cities to the Indians but I regain them back by rush building knights and MI to beat down their riflemen with the aid of some ottoman siphais.

    Arabia is slowed down enough to become a tech source and I trade my techs with them into the Industrial Age and leave Spain behind in the dust.

    Peace with India paying them only 40 gold which was totally worth is since they are now in Fascism with lots and lots of bruises from fighting the Ottomans, slowed down in tech, and culture.

    Free medicine tech!!!!!!!!!! :goodjob: Monopoly tech sold to all eligible AI for LOTS and LOTS of gold, steam power, and a couple of alliances against Spain.

    Looks like the TOE is gonna be mine since India doesn't have medicine, is at war with Everyone, and cannot trade their techs. I start researching Sci Met with a very good looking prebuild.

    England ROP rapes me like Spain and takes one of my cities up north again. Debate whether I should trade off Electricity for Nationalism to mass draft or not. Decide not to.

    Hanging in their cash rushing units again.

    Defensive warfare using artillery to hold off the invasion.

    Risky tech selling that jeapordizes my TOE a little but not too much - had to get RP ASAP for some Infantry

    Sci Met Get

    Prebuild for Hoover in another city

    Indians get Univ Suff

    France loses their Univ Suff wonder cascade
    France starts building TOE when I am 2 turns from being done with it. lol

    TOE is mine - get Hoover beeline

    Hoover is mine.

    Trade my techs for stuff like Indust, Corp, Nat, and lots of gold

    Ottomans sign MPP w/ England and so do Arabians :mad: War with them is triggered!

    War weariness taking its toll...set up some starvation camps to get rid of the ****y rioters

    Begin mass drafting and attacking english cities up north and in the south east beaches. Consolidated those cities into my empire. Took the one city in the northern island too.

    Communism - 6 turns to install

    Signed Peace on England with 17 gpt and 290 gold from them (OWNED!)

    Next turn I decided to give them back the 17 gpt if they raised hell in Spain and they accepted.

    Signed peace with Ottomans since they were opportuitizing on my depleted troop count for a tech/tech + some gold involved deal...not too bad.

    Sign peace with arabia for their 7 gold with which they were going to buy a McGriddle at MC D's.

    From here I used the Steal/Sell Strategy for the remaining techs with my vet spies. Meanwhile I am pounding the Spanish after finding out they have only 50 riflemen and a few other units.

    Overall things looking good. I just got Fission free tech and I am debating whether I should lock down a prebuild without trading it or whether I should sell it and go for the domination victory. India can be crushed easily once I have spain under my control and lots of bombers but I risk running out of time because the Indians already have close to 70000 total culture and 8000 Delhi super city culture. I think I may play it safe for diplo but nothing's decided yet...
     
  9. Yilar

    Yilar Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    538
    Location:
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    How do you submit?

    Entry class: Open
    Game status: Spaceship Victory
    Game date: 1600 AD
    Firaxis score: 6356 AD
    Jason score: Dunno what this is
    Time played: 10-11 hours.

    After playing this scenario TWICE i finally managed to win, the first time I was dumb enough to build the UN and initiate the vote only to lose and see the game gone. I didn't save as smart as I was, and the autosave didn't work for some odd reason. This was actually my first SP win in 3 years of playing civ ;)

    Off the bat I went for a granny in the cap, the barbs don't spawn till long way in anyway, and the AI are usually not clever enough to rush you anyway.
    I got contact with arabs and france pretty quick and traded with them. Using the phil sling shot to get republic. I dunno why the AI didn't research phil earlier, but oh well, good news for me :king:...

    I settled almost all of my island with only a few of these enemy cities on the coast near spain and england. The important thing here was to secure the dyes in the tundra up north for further trading. England almost got them, but I managed to block him away and plant just infront of him :lol:

    So as the game progressed, it was clear I was gonna win :lol:... Okay maybe not that clear, but apart from 2 lousy attacks, where one was a spear taking one of endless empty cities, I hardly saw any action. I gotta say this, but pangaea is better!
    I could probably have won the game conquest style, but I opted to go for the space race win seeing as it was the easiest and I could put cities on wealth and leave em alone :goodjob:
    France was the powerhouse civ (aside from me) in my game, despite him having a lot of jungle/marsh.

    My first wonder was ToE, which secured me Atomic energy and Electronics, which gave me the tech lead :). After that it was easy to pick up all the remaining wonders (WS, Hoover, UN, SETI and TI), as I could prebuild knowing I would get it without seeing the AI cheat to get it instantly.

    Next time i'll probably go for Pred, hoping for a little more AI action, I only used some 20 warriors to kill off the barbs and some infs/cav/tows that just sat at home waiting for something to happen :(

    Here's how it looked after 310 turns of playing :cool:
     

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  10. axehaxe

    axehaxe Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    473
    Alright this absolutely makes no sense....

    First, I built the UN. There are 5 players left on the map including myself. I vote for me of course, Lizzy votes for me, and Osman votes for me. Gandhi votes for himself. Joan votes for herself. Spain abstains. Why does it say the election is inconclusive with no majority found when clearly I have the majority vote!!!!?????? If Spain dies, will I get the majority vote?? (Please PLEASE say yes!!!)
     
  11. civ_steve

    civ_steve Chieftain Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,866
    Location:
    formerly Santa Clarita, California
    First, welcome to CFC and GOTM!

    Second, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the only game you can submit is from your first time playing through the game. From the rest of your post, I assume this would be a UN loss, and you can submit that game by going to gotm.civfanatics.net, selecting the "Submit" option under the Civ3 GOTM section and filling in the spaces. For a loss you have to save the turn before losing and submit that save; for a victory, go through the victory end sequence, and choose 'let me play a few more turns' and save at that point and submit. The second game is a nice result, but holds no meaning for this competition because you played with full knowledge of the map and game setup.

    Please review the rules on the gotm.civfanatics.net site, especially with regard to reloading. Good luck in your next GOTM!
     
  12. civ_steve

    civ_steve Chieftain Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,866
    Location:
    formerly Santa Clarita, California
    3 out of 6 votes is 50%, so it's not a majority. The UN holds another vote every 10 years for the rest of the game - knock out Spain (or France or India), and if the other votes stay the same, you'll have 3 out of 5, and a UN Victory. :)
     
  13. MarleysGh0st

    MarleysGh0st Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    373
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    You mean save the turn before a conquest loss, right? The other losses--like my space ship loss in this COTM--allow you to choose that "play a few more turns" option and save the result immediately after the loss, just like after a victory.
     
  14. axehaxe

    axehaxe Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    473
    YaY! I won! Thanks Civ_Steve, I played 10 more turns where I allowed the English to conquer the 2 cities that Spain had left. I then signed MPP with my supporters and got France and India to keep fighting each other and declare war on me at the same time!

    Diplo Vic @ 1700AD
     
  15. civ_steve

    civ_steve Chieftain Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,866
    Location:
    formerly Santa Clarita, California
    Well ... I'm not an expert at one's options after losing a game ... :mischief:

    If you get the option to "play a few more turns", take it, save and submit. Otherwise, load the autosave for the turn before and submit it.
     
  16. I. Larkin

    I. Larkin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2003
    Messages:
    4,401
    Tried to submit unfinished game yesterday (890 AD) but server was down.
    It is still long way to go with Rep. Parts vs Musketirs to domination limit. 15- 20 turns I think).
    Nothing special in this game although barbs at predator slowed down start
    expansion.
     
  17. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    4,841
    Location:
    Ohio
    Entry Class: Open
    Game status: Reload loss early on/spaceship victory
    Game date: 1565 C. E.
    Firaxis Score: 6016
    Jason Score: Didn't check since I lost the first few times early on.

    I played through the ancient age several times before I finally figured out how to handle the barbarians effectively. My final strategy came out a lot simpler than my previous ones.

    Since I knew wheat lie a few turns south, having already played it, I moved my settler and worker crew south and settled near the wheat. I built some warriors and reserached pottery at full tilt. I basically tried to send my warriors out in teams of 2 or more. This way if a barbarian killed one of them and got redlined in the procces I could then kill it. Also, and more importantly, if I spotted an encampment, that way if one warrior failed in its first attack, the second warrior (with one notable exception) would disperse it. I had my settler factory going after a while. I think my second town (Adrianople) lay south along the river and on the coast. Most of my towns built warriors for quite some time. Occasionally I would have them build a few workers, since I wanted the Great Library. I used something like an optimal city spacing, although a bit tighter than that in some spots, depending on terrain and local barbarians also.

    Once I knew pottery I beelined for philosophy, pretty much at full tilt, going for the literature slingshot. My second town on the river used a granary as a prebuild for the Great Library, while a mere handful of workers mined around that second town. After I had mined all the squares I could I merged in workers and took that second town up to size 10 (I couldn't take it 12 since I had so many forests nearby). When I got philosophy and then literature immediately after I set my science rate to 0. I built the Great Library, and then built workers out of that second town so that I could drop my luxury rate. Moving along the mountains a good bit and trying to keep an eye on as much territory as possible I didn't have too many problems with barbarians for a while. I built two curraghs at some point who contacted all the other tribes.

    Shortly after I finished the Great Library some of the barbs (I guess I played a little carelessly in spots) got a little too close to my towns and I saw that some would sack my towns. Of course, I couldn't really buy tech or luxuries. I still had a despotic government, so I couldn't buy units or improvements. Consequenlty, most of the money I used to build embassies and establish RoPs with everyone. At some point I still had some left over after all the embassies and RoPs. So... I found a banker (usually the French). By this I mean that for the lump sums of gold I had I exchanged gpt with say the French. E.G. I may have traded 400 gold to the French for 19 gpt (I know someone said this directly... but it really seems like an inversion of Moonsinger's banker strategy). This way I wouldn't lose too much when the barbs sacked my towns, and I'd get that money back eventually.

    Soon enough afterwards the ancient ages ended, and the barbarian hordes appeared on the map. I had planned partially for this, by creating a "settler corridor" down through the jungle river. By this I mean I parked some warriors along the river so that the "fog of war" got busted and no new encampments could emerge along the river (I also did this in the western mountains). This allowed me to keep putting up new towns... even during the barbarian early medieval rush. So, I managed to secure both sources of iron... and settled *almost* the whole island. The English ended up planting a town in the northern tundra and a northeastern town. The Spanish had a northeastern town, a south eastern town, and one in the northern tundra.

    At some point... since I left some of my towns empty so that my warriors could go barbarian hunting/create a settler corridor, the English found an undefended town and razed it. The war didn't last long and didn't cause any real problems (thankfully). When theology came in through the Great Library, I started to research on printing press... thinking I might successfully keep up on tech. Then I realized this simply wouldn't work, and so I did what Great Library players often do. One turn before learning Education from it, I gifted the Great Library away. At first I thought I might gift it away to the English, but I decided on the Spanish since they had more cities on my continent. It turned out as the better choice.

    During this time I tried to keep a few fleets of dromons near/next to Spanish galleys. Some of the Spanish galleys disappeared on me (disbanded?). One of them ran up to the north pole, and since I didn't have Navigation yet, they got away. I kept RoPs signed with the AIs throughout the entire game with one notable exception. After my RoP expired with the Spanish 5-10 turns after I gave them the Great Library, I decided I wanted more techs than I would get immediately. So, I signed another RoP with the Spanish. Then I waited... and waited... for my RoP with them to expire. On the next turn I made demands with the Spanish for technology and when they didn't budge, I kept on demanding until they got Furious. Then I told them to leave my land and (predicably) they declared war. A turn or two later, I took back the Great Library city (thank you Drakan and SirPleb). It had six resistors. Fortunately, it didn't flip back, and I sent out some medieval infantry to the south to get rid of the Spanish, and a knight and then some cavalry to the northeast also.

    From the second taking of the Great Library I learned the rest of the medieval techs except, for some strange reason Music Theory and I think Magnetism (even though two other tribes had it). I also didn't get Theory of Gravity, since no one knew it yet. I set my research up to full tilt, even at some 100+ gpt loss for Theory of Gravity. I started a prebuild (maybe I started a little earlier) for Newton's University. A turn or two later one of my dromons got attacked by a Spanish caravel... and won... triggering my Golden Age (or "slingshot number three... 1. Great Library 2. retaking the Great Library 3. Golden Age), basically how I wanted it. A turn or two later some tribes learned Theory of Gravity, which I immediately bought from the Indians. Unlike the reports here, from then on India pretty came up as one of the weakest tribes.

    I got Steam Power as my free tech and sold it all around for gpt and military alliances against the Spanish and started research in earnest. Strangely enough before I sold Steam Power India's luxuries didn't appear as extra luxuries. After I sold them Steam Power... on the very same turn as when I couldn't trade for them (remember I knew Navigation a turn or two before)... I could trade them for their extra luxuries. I reloaded and checked this by making sure that I had their map before I traded them Steam Power. It didn't matter. I also noticed that France had two luxuries avaible and had more than one luxury roaded up. But, for some odd reason, I could NEVER trade for their luxuries. I believe I had reloaded somewhere in the ancient age once... I think... so maybe that did it???? Or did I just encounter a bug? I don't know.

    With the lump sum I used to buy Theory of Gravity and then got back from selling Steam Power I immediately rushed universities in my core towns. This had a nice effect. When I started researching Industrialization it said it would take 10 turns to finish. I ended up getting it in 7 or 8 turns. My prebuild in the city where I had previously the Forbidden Palace (on the southern coast... rather close to both Adrianople and Constantinople actually) switched to Newton's, and a turn or two later I switched it back to the palace as I used Newton's as a prebuild for Woman's Suffrage in Constantinople. Of course, when I learned Industrialization the Palace prebuild became a build on Newton's University and the Newton's University prebuild became a build on Woman's Suffrage. I successfully built both wonders.

    I built factories in my core towns with the rest of my GA. I easily cleared the Spanish from my continent rather soon and then researched medicine and then sanitation. I pretty much sold industralization since I had a head start on Woman's Suffrage and I didn't think it all too big a deal if I got beat to it. I also wanted someone to learn The Corporation. The English did soon enough, and I traded them tech for it... then sold The Corporation or gifted it to everyone else so I could hopefully get more gpt from all of them. I kept on judiciously selling tech for gpt (thank you BamSpeedy) and racing ahead technologically. The English seemed to proceed through the top part of the Industrial tree quickly... did I trigger their GA by having them fight the Spanish? I though I had... man-o-war's vs. caravels... but at the end I learned it turned out I hadn't... they had built Smith's Trading Company a while back and probably had some GA left when the Industrial Age started, but not too much.

    Most of the game it felt like I had a worker shortage. I didn't quite have even 2 workers per city (usually I build more). Of course, I blame the barbarians. My outer towns didn't get developed until later in the game and I didn't much bother with the jungle/marsh area until I learned replacable parts. Still, even though Byzantina suffered a worker shortage and I learned the Scientific Method, I didn't research Replacable Parts... I researched Steel. Thanks to DaveMcW I know Replaceable Parts as the AIs second favorite tech to research, and I also know Refining as one of their favoir IA techs and Steel as one of their least favorite techs. So, I left Replaceable Parts as a "technological funnel" that the AIs would research, and since they had to pay full cost... this hopefully would slow them down. Soon enough I saw someone had learned Refining (I think the English.. or the English and someone else). I traded for it with another tech I had. Soon enough after the rich French learned Replaceable Parts and I traded them for it. France posed the biggest threat economically and technologically through much of the game. They did serve as a good barbarian banker after all.

    Throughout this time, since I had a cash surplus, I started "working" on the outer corrupt towns. Most of them had libraries already for culture. But, they still didn't have much uncorrupt commerce. So, instead of creating specialist farms in these cities, I cash-rushed them courthouses and then police stations. Of course, for some of the most distant cities a courthouse didn't do much, so they become specialist farms. Also, during this time I started to irrigate over all my mines so that my towns would quickly max out in worked squares and then have (mostly scientist) specialists. Usually, this happens quicker and I can start to add in some of my workforce for specialists or more worked squares... but not in this game. I also had to micro-manage happiness (through MapStat) quite a bit from the Industrial Ages on, as I didn't have all the luxuries avaible, I didn't have much time to build temples early on, and corruption, corruption, corruption.

    As soon as I learned Combustion, I shut research off as TOE would finish in two or three turns. I took the usual Atomic Theory-Electronics slingshot. I also left Flight as a funnel for the AI to research. I pulled a 4 turner researching Motorized Transportation, and the same turn France learned Flight. I traded for it and entered the modern age with Rocketry as my free tech. Now I noticed something interesting. The English had razed Spain's city in the nothern tundra. I didn't send a settler to colonize the area, but now I noticed aluminum in that tundra area. No sweat though... I noticed English territory had aluminum elsewhere so I sent a worker up there and roaded it for them (or did I do it for me???).

    I decided to take a risk and NOT research Fission right away, figuring that even if I missed the U.N., having the greatest amount of territory and population, I would still come in the elections anyways. I had started a Palace prebuild in the late industrial ages for this area. The Palace seemed to cost a lot more than in my regular games. So, I researched Computers and discovered in 1300. The same turn wonderful news came... the Arabs had declared war on the French! This would (and I think did) slow them down technologically and hopefully put a drain on their economy. I traded Arabia Flight and Mass Production for gems and gpt and they had tech parity with the French. In 1320 France got Electronics. I knew they only had Motorized Transportation left, so I waited 3 turns and then tried to sell Motorized Transportation to the French for gpt. They had none! The war with Arabia must have broken their economy. I decided I'll still sell it to them for a lump sum of 1792. A little while later I gave Arabia Motorized Transportation (I should have done this the same turn I sold France Motorized Transportation, I think).

    I discovered Miniturization and then went back and researched Fission. I switched my prebuild and got the Internet some 4 turns later... swoosh! India and Spain made peace at one point, and then India declared war on them on the very same turn. I learned Fission and switched a new prebuild to the U. N. and started a 5 turner on ecology. In 1375 massive unexpected disorders occurred which neither MapStat got, nor I could see from the city display. I guess someone initiated propaganda on me or something??? About then I noticed someone had learned Rocketry, so I decided not to wait and immediately sold it around (I really only sell tech for decent gpt or huge lump sums... I won't sell a tech for say 17 gold, 1 gpt, or even a 100 gold... at least not all that often) and then bought Aluminum from the English for some 3300-3400 gold. In 1395 I finally started to pile workers into my cities to increase specialists.

    Throughout the end game I lost gems from Arabia like 2 or 3 times, then traded back for it, then lost it. Also, I lost Ivory and Furs from India at some point and I had only three luxuries by game's end. I ended up using the luxury slider and using quite a few entertainers in my metropolises. I pulled 5 turns on most of the end techs with the exception of Satellites which I got in 4 turns and Robotics which I got in 6. In 1445 the Apollo Program completed, adn in 1465 I had my first spaceship part. England demanded Fission at some point, which I gave to her. I then traded the Arabs Fission for some extra cash, and then bought their uranium. I re-bought aluminum from the English for some 4600+ gold. In 1490 I had mass riots again (many cities rioting all of a sudden) and started using the luxury slider here. In 1500 I sold Computers around (to some... India certainly couldn't afford it and Spain didn't even ented the Modern Age) as Arabia had learned it. I launched my spaceship in 1565/1570 (304 turns)... on the replay I noticed that I gave Adrianople away in 320 and got it back in 720. I had *only* one war (well... the English "war" where they found an open city) and that came against the Spanish just for the Great Library again and my Golden Age... I figured I may as well clear them off my continent also. Since I played so peacefully and noticing how much culture my top city had compared to India's I now *wonder*... did Charis or anyone else win this as a 20k game?

    I'd like to post a screenshot... but I don't know how to do so. I used "go advanced" here to post some saves (if that's o.k.), including the very first turn I took the score lead. I think this game also tells us something interesting about city spacing... deciding on cxxc vs. cxxxxc as a general pattern (given equal terrain) for your entire empire needs to wait until you have a decent knowledge of the map.
     

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  18. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Messages:
    5,682
    Location:
    Heidelberg
    Open Class
    Domination in 1710AD
    Fireaxis & Jason score both around 5500

    This was definitely one of the toughest games I played in a long time! I was about to resign at four different points,
    [wife's comment: I wish he had...]
    but out of inertia I played on and somehow survived the crisis each time. Actually this is the kind of game I like: challenging uphill struggles where it is not clear for a long time, whether I will be able to win. But this time it was a bit too much, even for me... At some points playing this game was real physical pain... for example when the Spanish took my capital in a ROP-rape, while we had the best relations!

    The game started pretty well thanks to the good starting location. I settled in place and sent the first settler down, where a 4-turner was possible. No big problems with barbs in the beginning, so I played a kind of farmers gambit with only slight military protection... :crazyeye: I should have known better...

    After the first couple of contacts I got some good tech trading going and caught up with the AIs at the end of the AA. Then the uprisings began, and suddenly there were barbs everywhere! Stacks of 20 horsemen were approaching from every direction, killing population, killing one or two settlers and a couple of workers, destroying the production of halve-finished graneries, killing many units and taking lots of gold. (Didn't have anything useful to spend it on. Probably should've gifted it to the AIs for better relations, but I thought the barbs would leave my population and production alone, if I had enough gold in the treasury. However, that didn't always work...) In short, they completely ruined my game and for many many turns I was doing nothing but fighting barbs and not getting anywhere.

    Then the French landed a single regular horseman on my shores... Normally I would laugh about that. But it attacked a town defended by a veteran spearman and took it! Two turns later it attacked the next town, killed another vet spear and took it as well!! And the next turn it razed an undefended town. At the same time the Spanish had also sent a single horseman, which took another of my undefended towns... :cry:

    At that point I thought: Ok, is this enough? Shall I quit? But I could no longer switch to GOTM79, because I had already read the spoilers. So I said to myself, even if this is not going to be a great score, if you want to submit something this month, you have to stick with this game...

    Fortunately at that time the barb invasions began to cease and I was able to build a couple of units, which slowly managed to retake my lost towns (except for one, which surprisingly got razed?! I thought a town of your own nationality will not be razed, even if it's of size 1 and has no culture?!). The Spanish had settled a couple of towns on my continent and I was also able to take two or three of those. Then there followed a long phase of recovery, during which I managed to secure the horse resource far out east. But the next crisis didn't wait long: I had made quick peace with Spain and lateron we had very good relations again with many trading opportunities and a ROP. Then out of the blue a lone Conquistador ROP-raped me and captured the undefended Constantinople!! :mad: The Pallace jumped into the next city, which had already built the FP! I tried to recapture Constantinople immediately with two Knights, but somehow the Spanish had already completed two vet Pikes in it, so the attack failed. Where did those come from so fast?? :confused: I had to wait a couple of turns, complete a few more Knights nearby and bring some back home from their engagement with the English, and then I was able to retake it. But the damage had already been done: 5 pop points lost, a temple, a library and a marketplace lost, Palace and Forbidden Pallace now in one city...
    I'm not exactly sure what effect this has on corruption, but spending 1000 shields on rebuilding the Pallace was out of the question, so I left it that way until the rest of the game. (Unfortunately I had only two leaders during the entire game, which were both urgently needed for Armies.)

    By now I had seriously fallen behind in tech. No chance to catch up, neither with own research nor with trading. But good luck saved me again: I noticed, that the Arabs were fighting the French and slowly getting the upper hand. The French had no iron, but they had built the Great Library in Paris...
    So after I reached Chivalry, I set science to 0% and used my money for completing the infrastructure in my core and upgrading horsemen. For many centuries I went like this. (Actually I wanted to take the GL much earlier, but tough wars with the English, Ottomans, Indians and Spanish prevented me from getting my invasion force ready.) When I noticed that France was almost finished and Indian and Arabian troups approaching Paris, it was about 5 minutes before 12. I sent over whatever I had (a handful of Knights and MI) and took Paris literally a few seconds before the Indians would. The first two Indian Cavalries had already attacked Paris, but had not yet taken it. Fortunately I already had a decent beachhead on French territory with direct road access to Paris and I had a ROP with France, so I was able to block the advance of the Indian Cavalry with a couple of workers... ;)

    This had been a close shave, and had I not managed to get the GL, the game would definitely have been lost. Taking it from India would have been impossible, as they already had riflemen. But as it was I gained 22 techs in one turn: the entire Middle Age plus Steampower, Medicine, Communism and Fascism. This was 970AD. A bit of tech trading the next turn netted me Nationalism and thousands of gold, and suddenly I was back in the game!

    I stayed a few more turns at 0% science in order to buy Industrialization from the Indians and then immediately started research on Electricity, which no one yet had at that point. (I had already setup libraries in my core, but research was still surprisingly slow, like 10 turns for Electricity and close to 20 for Scientific Method.)

    The next phase went pretty smoth. Even though I wasn't the first at Scientific Method, my prebuild secured me ToE and then about 10 turns later the Hoover Dam was mine as well. I felt pretty confident again. However, the next crisis did not wait long: no oil on my continent!! And no chance to buy any or capture any, because my Cavalry would have been no match for Infantry or even Tanks... Having no oil really sucks! Now I begin to understand G.W.Bush's motives... From here on the game turned into a fight for resources, either in order to gain access to them myself of for denial purposes.

    Fortunately after a while Arabia began to decline, because India, Spain and the Ottomans had dogpiled on them. I prepared two Cav Armies, sent them to the Arabian oil fields and managed to capture them just in time before the Indian troops arrived there.

    Shortly after that we arrived at the modern age and India started to build the UN in a pretty productive city, and I thought, that's perfect: they will surely finish it first, and then I don't need to fear a diplomatic loss, because except for the Ottomans everyone was at war with India, so they will definitely not trigger an election... But to my surprise it was the Ottomans, who unexpectly finished the UN. They had started about 10 turns later than the Indians and their city looked about the same as the Indian one in terms of size and mined mountains?! This came as a real shock to me, because I was absolutely unsure, how the election would turn out, if they held one next turn! There were five nations left at that time. I would vote for myself and Spain would either vote for me or abstain, because they had been at constant war with the Ottomans. But India would certainly vote for the Ottomans, as they were in a mutual protection pact for most of the game. So all would depend on England's vote, and I hadn't noticed a single war between England and the Ottomans during the entire game! So I crossed all fingers and toes and pressed <enter> and --- no election!!

    In order to prevent a tight situation like that for the future, I decided to remove the English from the game. My original plan on how to reach the dom limit had been to attack Spain first, because they had no rubber and thus no Mech Inf. But with Spain gone the next UN election might definitely go in Osman's favour, so I had to change my strategy, regroup and prepare an invasion of England first. And they made it easy for me: I had already tried to plant a spy in England a couple of times, but had always been caught. I tried one more time, and this time the English were so pissed that they declared war! Great. I first sent a Modern Armor Army over, which disconnected their rubber, and then my MAs & Artillery took over England in 4 or 5 turns.

    Next phase consisted of taking all rubber and aluminium sources from India and Osmania. The first to stop them building Mech Infs (they had already build around 150 each) and the second to prevent them from building further spaceship parts. (Osman had already finished 5 and had two more in production, so it was about time to pay attention to that...) Fortunately no rubber nor aluminium was located on the Indian/Osmanian home continent, it was all on former French, Arabian and Spanish territory, and the Ottomans still had three towns in the north of my continent, which provided them their only two source of aluminium. Attacking their home continent would have been a tough nut, but as usual the offshore cities were not too well defended and with Artillery, Modern Armor and 10 Armies I made good progress. The only drawback was: they still had their MPP, and the very first turn after I attacked them, they dropped almost their entire nuclear arsenal on me! 6 ICBMs and a tactical nuke! :eek: This disconnected all my rubber and oil sources! And the next turn I got two more nukes... This slowed me down quite a bit and cost quite a number of Fireaxis points, because in an attempt to maximize my score I had joined most of my workers into cities, after my railroad network was complete. I had only kept a decent pollution control squad.

    Anyway, that didn't stop me and in a couple of turns I had taken over the rest of the French/Arabian continent and the island between Arabia and Spain. And the Ottomans finally stopped building spaceship parts after completing 8, uff.
    BTW: needless to say that after my experiences in GOTM77 I razed all Ottoman and Indian cities and replaced them with my own. I didn't have to do this with the majority of English cities, because I eliminated England so quickly that they didn't have a chance to flip back... :D

    Now I estimated the missing tiles for domination and found that a difficult invasion of the Indian/Ottoman home continent would not be necessary. The last 10 turns or so consisted of rushing Libraries in my newly founded towns and of finally taking over Spain to reach domination in 1710.

    After this nerve-racking game I'm looking forward to a nice and relaxing COTM49... :crazyeye:

    Lanzelot
     
  19. Othniel

    Othniel fighting for Achsah

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    995
    Location:
    a ski lift in Cali
    Probably the citizen became French before you retook the town. I've noticed that the AI can do culture assimilation of citizens in captured towns a heck of a lot faster than the human can.

    Way to stick with the game despite an impressive amount of setbacks! :goodjob:
     
  20. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    4,841
    Location:
    Ohio
    Props to your tenacity Lanzelot! I feel sure enough you won't place at least a warrior garrison in your capital ever again.
     

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