COTM55 - Final Spoiler

[civ_steve]

COTM 55 Final Spoiler; Game Submitted

Reading Requirements:
You may only read this thread if:

1. You have completed and submitted your game.

Posting Restrictions:

1. None! As long as its related to the GOTM, and within the forum rules!
2. And ... Absolutely NO discussion of any other active 'X'OTM contest!

Here's your opportunity to tell the whole story. Were you able to establish a dominant Greek Civilization? Or did the SID AI take charge?

 

[Yilar]

If you are reading this. It is either because you have submitted your final game or you have given up and don't plan on submitting!

I will continue from where I left off, at around 1000BC. Not much happened from where I left off. I settled most of my side of the island, with the exception of a few "summer camps" on the shores far from the cap that I didn't really want to settle anyway.

I actually thought hard about how I could win this, I even dreamt of it (Hello, i'm Yilar and i'm a civ addict ). Finally I remember reading somewhere on civfanatics about some guy (can't remember name), who jumped a whole tech era with the great libary. And as I was hopelessly behind (the AI entered MA in 1350BC) I figured I could do the same. In 130AD I still missed poly and construction to enter MA (though I could do them both in 4t). But the AI was far advanced.

So I opted to go for the "easy" way out, and steal the Great Libary and hopefully catch up in techs that way. I stopped tech and started to build barracks. In 290AD egygt declared war on the celts and soon after the whole world was at war with celts. It was at this moment I realized that I could win by stealing The Great Libary and jumping all the way upto fission and build the UN. The initial plan was just to take the city for a turn to catch up. As I already had begun landing units at celts with my RoP, I quickly surrounded his capital (where the great libary was) creating a "ring of protection", so the other civs couldn't take it. And I started a palace prebuild in Sparta.

​

In 400AD the AI entered IA (8 turns after I could have entered MA).
In 1120AD the AI entered Modern times, and I was egerly waiting for the UN to be in construction by 2 civs. At this point I had removed almost all the shields being produced in Sparta as I waited. Finally in 1200AD 2 civs were building the UN and I captured celts capital, destroying them and jumping almost 2 full tech eras (I had traded my way upto feud for MDI to take Entremont). I railed Sparta and switched to UN and in 1285AD I won the game by 3-2 votes (cath and india voted for me and baby voted for egygt (I had spent thousands of gold bribing them)).

This was my first ever diplomacy win and it sure did feel cheap, but in the end I won and that's what matter

​

Note that the last screenshot is somewhat doctored. I loaded the autosave and skipped a turn to create the picture after I had submitted. I used 5:59:32 and not 5:55:28.

 

[goyal]

This is not accepted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyways I tried 3rd time and won the Space race just some turns before India was at it..

I don't know whether it qualifies for the score or not but it was a challenge that I had to do.

So the game in short is as follows:

Settling the first 2 cities south near the incense..this location was much better as the second luxury was also near by and hence good cash flows..
Pers and Romans were exterminated early on..that left a Huge India, Egypt and Celts. Babylon was quite small and helped in exchanging techs.

Raced (shdn't call it raced though as AI was already at Education) to Republic..

Celts Trying to Exploit me and asks for Map + Gold..hmmm India was huge and seeing the culture of INdia needed to do something..Ok Celts want war take it...Make alliance with Egypt for Celts..And also turned every other AI against so that Egypt doesn't face any trouble and get big fast enough with Culture..

See two Celts Medieval Infantry landed near my City attacked with Hoplites and get the GA )
Catching up on techs till Celts is exterminated..

Industrial age
Almost there with India and Egypt in Techs and ahead of the rest
Gets Medicine as free Tech and luckily for me India had Nationalism and Steam ..exchange tech for some luxuries and lots of Gold (which then was used to spy India's techs)

Changed Govt from republic to Democracy

Still India looks with good chance to win Cultural Victory..needed to do something about it's ever expanding Culture and also as Egypt was now bigger than India it will catch up in time..Declaring war on India can make people unhappy...Also India Signed MPP with Egypt and Babylons so it won't war them..That leaves Carthage and me for India's next target..Signs MPP with all other techs except India..As anticipated India declares war on Carthage..All AI's declares war on India

Gave replaceable parts + Rubber to Babylon on India's island so that it takes time for India to clear it

India reaches to Tanks and wrap up Babylon but the work was done Egypt's culture was good enough now to hold off India's Cultural win.

India declares war on Carthage...3 carthage cities were in my base decalres war on Carthage and take them with my Tanks !!!

Carthage also destroyed soon..

Modern Age:

India, Egypt and myself enters into the Modern times...Only possible victory was Space race..India was too quick in science getting every tech in just 4 turns.
India was very aggressive in the game and I could see a war coming to me ..India lands it's units on my base ...I sign MPP with Egypt..
India Declares war..Bring it on I also have tanks now...

India and Egypt fight but they are too big and the war wasn't making much difference in India getting the techs fast. The only benefit I had was that India wasn't attacking me with it's full Power.

Spying every tech that India Researched..India + Egypt also goes for Space race..

Keeping ICBM in queue (with Uranium from Egypt) so that I can build the parts as soon as I get the tech..

Robotics researched by India..spied by me..changed ICBM to the last part..taking 2 turns..I use the spy to Sabotage Production in India's capital where the last part was building..

Victory !!!!!!! The Lovely Rocket gets Launched

 

[LTJG Perry]

@ Yilar , nothing cheap about that victory! Sweet.

I quit in 250 bc, 4 techs away from Middle Ages, and dozens behind AI, when Egypt took Athens. My curragh was never hassled, and I made all contacts. Rome was eliminated early, and they were only ones I could trade tech with.

 

[Shad77]

I was beaten like a red headed step child.

 

[Nata]

Vow, Yilar, that's amazing!
Congrats for pulling it off! It may well be the only victory in this game.

I'm reading this because I've given up, at around 500BC.

 

[LTJG Perry]

@goyal, only the first attempt counts, because of map knowledge. However,
I've reattempted the occasional hard game for my own (masochistic) enjoyment, and your victory proves that a SS is possible, so thanks for posting that.

 

[Sima Qian]

There should be no surprise about the outcome of my game. Trying my usual approach on Sid generally doesn't go anywhere.

I did manage a "hail Mary" at the Colossus, which I completed in 2350 BC. But that was at the cost of not getting any units to explore, so I fell far behind in tech. I gradually clawed my way back, mostly by GPT abuse (distant AI sticks a couple of units in my territory, I make a GPT deal and then demand that they leave, or allying against an AI with one city left knowing that it will fall in the next few turns). Barely made it to the industrial age when Gandhi launched his ship.

I was a bit surprised when the map suddenly brightened up at the end. I always thought Satellites only shows the map to its discoverer, not everybody. (Admittedly, I've very seldom been in a situation where Satellites was discovered and I didn't explore the whole world yet.)

Yilar had a very clever approach to this game, I'm impressed. I unfortunately would only have had a courthouse as my best prebuild, so it would've been much harder for me to pull it off.

Entry class: Predator
Game status: Spaceship Loss to India
Game date: 1630 AD
Firaxis score: 354
Jason score: 134
Time played: 02:45:35

 

[axehaxe]

@ "I was beaten like a red headed step child."


I second that. I think I'm getting the red ambulance this time. The barbarians owned me like a used car.

 

[Garvarg]

Man that game was something else.
I am happy just to have stayed alive in Sid.
Science race was just a joke, but the rate at which the AI could build .... well when I established diplomatic relations, and saw how fast they could build, I just about fell off my seat! And the barbs ...!!
So sit back and be nice. Give in to everybody. And wait for the AI to win.
The sooner the better, so noone starts a war with me.
As it turned out, Egypt attacked me, I lost 2 cities and then India headed for space.
I have never been so happy to loose a space race.
1640 AD
PTW of 4074
54 Cities while controlling almost my end of the continent.

Kudos the you guys who actually can win at this level.

 

[Spoonwood]

Did anyone manage to use arties effectively and pummel the AI or gain control in some more elegant way then taking the GL right when Fission pops up?

 

[Neo666]

COTM 49 was a deity game in which I stopped research when I reached monarchy and waited to see cavs of two different nations before capturing the GL city and jumping about 1,5 age! I planned to do exactly the same only now I was planning to capture the GL city when 2 civs are building the United Nations.

When I reached the middle ages in 900BC I got Feudalism (which the Indian already had) as my free tech and gifted up the Persians and Babylonians whom both got Engineering. I ended up with both Engineering and the Republic + 1100 gold!!!

I started on a min run on invention after this, figuring I could better buy monotheism and chivalry as I was not in a hurry to get those.

So next up was waiting to buy those techs and expanding, hooking up luxuries and controlling the barbs. As mentioned in the first spoiler the barbs were pretty annoying. As I had a lot of gold I could not let them raze a city of mine so I went to war against them! I lost a lot of units, a couple of citizens and also 1000 gold. In short; pretty annoying but I had control over them around 150BC. By that time the Persians were already gone thanks to Babylonia.

By that time I hooked up the incense and almost both the silks and dyes. Another thing that happened is that the Egyptians destroyed the Celts, a big problem that arose was that now one of the bigger civs (actually the biggest!) was in control of The Great Library and knights would probably not do the trick of capturing this city a couple of ages later.

I continued on my min-run for invention as I was already 2/3 there and probably already way behind in tech. I discovered invention in 150AD. I was than able to trade gunpowder with India for dyes, incense, silks and gold, I also made some trades for luxuries with Babylon and Egypt. With now 5 luxuries and marketplaces in all my core cities + war happiness from both Rome and Carthage (the war with Carthage also provided me with a nice golden age in 50AD!!) I could put the luxury slider to 0%!

With most of my part of the continent under my control except for 2 Indian cities in the far south-east and 4 Egyptian cities in the west and the knowledge that only Babylon and India had discovered Chemistry I decided to go on a max run. Chemistry took me 8 turns, discovering it in 280AD. With no interesting trade options and still plenty of gold (3700) I continued with metallurgy on 100%. By that time I had a Library, Marketplace and if necessairy an Aqueduct in all of my core cities. My militairy containt of 32 horsemen and 12 hoplites and I had 36 workers running around.

I discovered metallurgy in 360AD (by that time the Romes were also wiped out by the Egyptians) and in 410AD I traded for the remainder of Militairy Tradition with India. After which I stopped all research except for one lonely scientist using all the gold for upgrading horsemen to cavalry, by that time the count was 48 horsemen and 17 cavs.

The next 8,5 centuries were all about putting together a huge cavs army, keeping all nations happy with me (I made peace with Carthage) by giving them luxuries and other stuff. I also tried to keep the culture flips to a minimum by building culture buildings in the cities which were near foreign cities. Although I put a lot of gold in that it still happened about 4 times.

Fast forward to 1265AD when I had 150 cavs running around. I conquered Richborough (the city where the GL was located) and secured it for at least one turn (by destroying all the roads to it). I also conquered all but one Egyptian city on my part of the continent. I also made an alliance against Egypt with all of the other nations.

In 1270AD I jumped 1,5 age and was able to build the United Nations.

In 1275AD I finished the United Nations (I had a palace pre-build in Sparta) and was elected. The Egyptians voted for themselves, India did the same and Babylonia and Carthage voted for me!

I agree with Yilar that this kind of victory feels pretty cheap but I don’t think that another type of victory was possible (maybe space) because of the level but also the really crappy starting ground. So Civ_Steve; hopefully you can provide us with plenty of luxuries, cattle, wheat and rivers near the starting location for the next SID game! I did find the choke point helpfull (I kept in the entire game by building a city just south of it), although I did appreciate the creativity of the “civs in constant war” I don’t think it worked to our advantage.

 

[civ_steve]

Thanks for the feedback! SID games are very extreme and tweaking them to provide competition without completely hamstringing the AI is a touchy business. I've attempted a couple variations of strategy for this game and not gotten very far so it looks like future SID games where the AI have contact will require a bit more bonuses for the player. Reading Goyal's entry, perhaps just an immediate luxury or two may have been the difference.

 

[Lanzelot]

I also played this game for a while, until it became too hopeless... (lost the race to Philosophy and my initial expansion was too slow, because the barbs kept intercepting my settlers.) In my opinion, in order to make this a winnable game for "average players", it would need the following changes:

1. As Neo666 already pointed out: a better starting position. Or to be more precise, a starting position with better shield production. These floodplain starts are difficult to play (at least for me...), and on SID you need a decent production to get anything going. (By the time you have mined a hill or two, the AIs have already built all ancient wonders, markets, libraries and a decent military...). Yes, and a lux or two might have been nice too.
2. No barbs full stop. As I already said, the main impact of the barbs was that I was not able to get my settlers out fast enough. They either got killed (even escorts of two hoplites were not enough sometimes, and because of the low shield production I was not able to provide stronger escorts), or had to run around and many turns later ended up in a completely different (and crappy) location than originally planned. I tried the "party town approach", but it didn't help much, because often the barbs reached the core towns and then always ransacked the precious production or killed the population.
3. Something to help us in the tech race, perhaps an initial library (instead of the initial barracks that had been discussed)?! I got two warriors past the choke point and had early contacts with all AIs on my continent and a few early trading opportunities. But after that I was quickly left behind. By the time I finished Philosophy, two AIs had already reached the Middle Ages... There was one backward civ: Rome had been reduced to one city by the Celts, and that city was on my side of the choke point, so I hoped they might survive until I finished the Republic, which they did not have yet. But 3-4 turns before I finished the Republic, the Celts landed 2 shiploads of swords and took the last Roman town, killing my last good trade opportunity

It would be interesting to see, how Yilar and Neo666 played the opening. If you kept a CivAssist archive, it would be very much appreciated, if you could share like the first 30-40 autosaves with us...

Cheers, Lanzelot

 

[templar_x]

retired in turn 178 (630 AD)
Firaxis score 1417
Jason score 537

i gave up when i realized that winning this game would be unlikely as well as tedious. maybe not as bad as i thought, from the hours spent by yilar and neo... congratulations for pulling that victory off, guys!

i had considered it, but do not believe it would have been possible in my game. the glib was situated in CARTHAGE, of all cities!!! on the other end of the world, and a capital with at least a dozen units in it. it would have required lots of time, galleons and cavs and i did not see that.

that´s the story:
founded the capital with the more northern, flood plain settler. settled both in place.
i hardly made it beyond the chokepoint, coz there were too many egyptian troops. when i finally got through, the romans were already gone... so only two trading partners to start with. of course no initial trading opportunities.
i made it to writing first, but lost the race to philo by 1 turn that was quite a killer, as i only once more often had sth to trade.
in 1300bc the celts kill the romans.
in 1250bc i meet the carths, they have only 4 cities (with their crappy starting island)
my other ships all sink, so i have no knowledge of the other continent yet.
in 1150bc the egyptians already land settlers on my side of the choke
in 1050bc the celts do the same
in 900bc i again lose the tech race by one turn, now to lit. someone already makes it to the MA, barb uprising with the expected trouble and hampering for REX
in 750bc my 5-turn settler factory is finally set up, mining those hills took a helluva time
650bc egypt get the chokepoint into their cultural area :argh:
630bc they ask for a minor amount... well, if it has to be war, then i appreciate WH, i decline and they DOW me. my GA starts in 570bc and i bring in the celts. i manage to take all egyptian cities on my side of the choke.
370bc i finally connect my first lux. then a ship finally makes it over and i meet india in 330bc. again before i meet them, they kill the babs in 230bc. by that time i am a whole age behind. contact with persia in 50bc. i buy a wm and see a HUGE india.
around 340ad i connect my 2nd lux and finally become a republic. 380ad i enter the MA, which had been my mininum goal after all the trades and ocean rng gods had turned against me.
i tried to clear my side of the continent from the celts´ cities, but unfortunately the indians dowed them, too, and brought in masses of troops. congrats to the AI who once landed 7 WE next to a celtic town. i tried to be fast against the celts and took most of their cities, but still the indians had 7 cities in my lands and loads of troops.
in 450ad i see rifles on top in those indian cities - i have nothing to bring up against those, so i´ll have to live with gandhi around.
510ad egypt (they are now industrial, too) destroys celts, it has taken them only a couple of turns to do so. PLUS this kills my reputation due to a running trade. ok, that´s enough, i decide to retire.
i do have most of the lands on my side of the choke. 29 cities. i´ve got eng and mono in the MA. only war is phony against Persia. although definitely above my comfort level, several happenings were very close so that i would have been able to keep the pace up to the beginning MA. but i´ll try that in another SID game.

 

[greatbeyond]

Open save.

I wish I could report better results but I was wiped in 1200AD. The tech pace in my game seemed to be a lot faster than most others, as by 1200AD, both India and Egypt had entered the Modern Age.
I also was planning on going for the GL gambit. I tried to build it myself for the quick early boost and was beaten by about a dozen turns by the Celts, even though I started my prebuild very early. Egypt DOW'd the Celts and I was trying to get Swords there to join in the fight. Of course Egypt was a monster and had Cavalry versus Celt Spears and wiped out the Celts in less than ten turns. Then the unthinkable happened. The Egyptians took Camulodrunum and razed it to the ground. Good-bye GL. I have only seen this happen in one other COTM about 6 months ago, also a Deity level game. There went my hopes of catching up. It was just me, the Egyptians, Indians, and Babylon (one city left) at around 1100AD. I had active trades for the last several hundred years with both Egypt and India but Egypt, which had just got peace with India, DOW'd me. I could have gotten peace with Egypt toward the end, but it would have just postponed the end by a century. Egypt must have been close to a Domination win by the time it got done with me.

I settled both in place and went for two quick Settlers, taking a chance I could get them settled before the Barbs arrived, it was close! (Four cities should have been a great start, but it was not so). The Barbs were the worst I have ever seen in a game. Even Hoplites didn't stand a chance losing regularly to Horsemen and Warriors. I combined a strategy of sending Hoplites out to fortify on hills and lure the Barbs to them, and Settling a town in front of approaching Barbs to lure them away from my core. This didn't work too bad for me but the Egyptians still managed to settle a city past the chokepoint early and then the Indians showed up, both planting several cities around the SW coast of our lands. Then their culture started going up and their was zero chance of their flipping. City growth was very slow because of the terrain and happiness issues. Most of the time I had to run Luxs at 40%. I had planned to get lots of cities early, a key to keeping up with the AI, but was foiled by the above.

Wars - I don't know what Civs were at Permanent war with each other at the start. It will be interesting to hear. Egypt asked for help with Rome early, but I hadn't even met Rome. They got several others to join in and Rome was gone. The Babylonians didn't last much longer. Carthage was the next dogpile victim and they were gone. Then it was the Celts turn. I joined a couple of fake wars but The AIs wouldn't give any techs, just cash, so it really wasn't that much of a help. I did manage to take two cities from the Celts who had settled on my land.

I was prepared for playing Sid, but it was still a very unsatisfying game. I'm sure the two Settlers and Workers for Open class meant players lasted longer than normal. The chokepoint defenders really only had an effect until the AI got MM which wasn't very long.

I researched Writing first and by the time I got it, only one of the Civs didn't have it. I went straight for Lit as my tests all showed there wasn't any chance of getting the Philo sling. I got Lit first and didn't trade it but the AIs got it shortly thereafter and I ended only trading it with one AI. That was the last trading I did. Techs took forever and I didn't get Feudalism until much later in the game.

The landmass type lends itself to a quick AI growth and tech pace. The always war setting only seemed to make things go faster. Unless of course you make all the AIs at war with each other. They tended to dogpile and wipe the other AIs quickly. As I said earlier, the Barbs seemed to be way out of proportion and appeared very early.

 

[templar_x]

much was already said, so i only deliver a few statements of my own as a post scriptum to my report above:

+ i second that the "warring civ pairs" made the ai rather faster than slower.
+ the chokepoint defenders were very helpful for me until an AI (the Indians) managed to build culture. militarily i did not feel threatened by the AI as long as they only landed units.
+ barbs were a possible killer in the game. losing hoplites against warriors and horses on a regular base was reported by everyone... and appeared very strange to me. (i was relatively lucky because i could settle a few ring cities to absorb their stacks just in time, limiting my other losses.)
+ the defensive shot of the hoplite was noticed by me only in the scenario info, then never again. was it really there?
+ however, MY key problem was the starting location. it took forever to get to the luxes and to set up enough production in order to make use of the abundant food available.
+ as a minimum change for THIS start i think what would have helped ME most would have been two more workers, and maybe a culture building in the 2nd city (a library was suggested by someone, that could have been handy). otherwise just a shield-stronger environment with easier access (less worker builds necessary). i think, forests instead of hills would have helped a lot for the fp city as well as in the SW of the other settler.