Cottage growth vs. workshop growth

6K Man

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This isn't really a complaint (or even an important issue :mischief: ) but why is the cottage the only terrain improvement that must be worked in order to become more productive?

It seems to me that there are three varieties of terrain improvements - those that have to be worked to increase their production, those that gain production when techs are discovered or civics are adopted, and those that always produce the same amount of commerce/food/hammers.

Cottages are in the first group. Build a cottage, and it's a cottage for 10 turns, then a hamlet for 20, and so on. Provided that a citizen is working it, of course. To a small extent, Mines are in the first group too - work enough mines long enough, and you may discover some valuable resource under it.

Workshops, Watermills, Windmills, and Farms are in the second group. They produce more (albeit just a little more, in some cases) with techs like Electricity and Biology, and with civics like State Property.

Fishing Boats, Wineries, Whaling Boats, Quarries, Plantations, Pastures, Camps, Lumbermills and (for the most part) Mines are in the last group. Other than Lumbermills and Mines (both of which benefit from railroad), these improvements can only be built on a resource. For the resource-only improvements, what you see is what you get, and that's probably because most of us will (nearly) always be working the resource tiles that we have - no need to add an incentive.

Now that I have that straight in my head, once again, why force the player to steadily work some improvements (cottages) and not others (the second group above)? I'm fairly sure cottages work the way they do as a matter of game balance - otherwise the micromanagers among us would steamroll their towns and build workshops on them when hammers were urgently needed, and then rebuild all the towns (assuming towns were available with a tech, rather than with the passage of time) when the crisis had passed. That makes sense. But why not make workshops - and mines, and farms, and so on - work the same way? As it is, I seldom build farms and workshops on non-special tiles, unless I'm truly starved for food or production, simply because I KNOW that these tiles will be underproducing my cottage tiles in the long run. If I knew that eventually, that -1 food +1 hammer workshop would evolve to something better than a +3 hammer tile, the decision of what to build would be that much more complicated.

Moreover - we now have the CE (cottage economy, based on cottages) and SE (specialist economy, based on farms and resulting specialists) strategies. If farms, workshops, etc, grew the way cottages do (eventually providing +7 commerce/+1 hammer), we might see new strategies evolve.

I'm sure I'm not the first person who's thought of this. Any ideas why ONLY cottages develop by being worked?
 
I think it's really a balance issue - I mean lets face it, if you could build a town and start off with a square that was producing +5 gold per turn, nobody would ever run into money trouble. It really increases the value of towns by being forced to "grow" them... gives you that sick feeling in your gut when your neighbor pilliages a town. I think it's more realistic, too - most improvements you would see an immitiate benefit from in real life (or within a few years... whatever...) but towns, like cities, grow over time. (Though, granted, they don't grow by "working" them in real life.)
 
I don't define working as a citizen sleeping with everyone in town to get it to grow. But if you do I'm moving to where you are.
 
Me, I wouldn't mind if all improvements had to be worked in a similar fashion.

It could work like..

Workshop -> Warehouse -> Factory

Mine -> Deep Mine -> Borehole

Windmill -> Wind farm

Irrigation -> Farm -> Hydroponic Garden -> Soylent Green
 
I don't define working as a citizen sleeping with everyone in town to get it to grow. But if you do I'm moving to where you are.

People in Cottages and Towns are just going about their daily lives. You tax the lifeblood out of them and take their money, which is represented by the commerce increase.

Irrigation -> Farm -> Hydroponic Garden -> Soylent Green

Ah, yes, the indefatigable march of technology marches onward... indefatigably. Though wouldn't Soylent Green cancel out its own food benefits by the decreased population due to... health issues?
 
A warehouse wont make sense after workshop seeing a warehouse stores stuff and wprkshop makes stuff
 
The current system is mainly for balance issues. 5 commerce on one tile is WAY more powerful than +2/3 hammers. If you were forced to work production improvements to improve them they would either have too low a yield early game or game-breakingly high yields later on. I agree, it may be more realistic to have other improvements get better as they are worked, but the current system is fine.
 
Well, really they do. They require people living in it, making buildings and babies so the cottage/hamlet/etc grows.

I think I was referring more to the fact that towns in Civ IV only grow by "taxing" them, where as in real life it seems that reduced taxes would encourage industrial growth as well as a multitude of other factors.

An interesting mod might be to have cottages/towns/etc. only grow when you're not working them.
 
Mines are in the first group too - work enough mines long enough, and you may discover some valuable resource under it.

Not true, you don't have to work them. Any mined hill can discover a resource. Resources that can be discovered this way (correct me if I'm wrong) are gems, gold, copper, iron, coal, aluminum and uranium.
 
I must say, i really dont understand why people just love cottages...:confused:

First of all :

-they take time to develop
-If attacked, it´s alot of free gold for the enemy, which makes warfare more economical for the attacker, paying for his units upkeep.
-Your empire dosen´t posses flexibility before US... or even later.


If you make production cities you can build military and building alot faster, thust making it possible to do what your empire needs at the exact moment... say like mass military, put :hammers: into :science: or mass out courthouses. Though mostly it makes slavery "less effective" due to the fact that whipping takes away gold/(more gold)...:lol:

Beeing able to produce building faster make up for some of the "lost" gold due to the fact that you can please and feed more people...making it possible to work more titles or run specialists. Maybe and extra trade route ? (not sure how trade routes work in detail, but it seems to have something to do with the amount of people living in the city)


Hmm maybe i should start a game thread on cottage spam and try it out with help from participants from the forum? :)
 
Not true, you don't have to work them. Any mined hill can discover a resource. Resources that can be discovered this way (correct me if I'm wrong) are gems, gold, copper, iron, coal, aluminum and uranium.

I´m pretty sure your chance of discovering a new resource increases with the amount of worked mine titles... I know i read a thread about this ...will try to dig it up asap.
 
I must say, i really dont understand why people just love cottages...:confused:

Cottages are the lifeblood of an empire's progress. You don't need to completely cover every single tile in them (some financial players love to do this, but it seems boring to me), but you do need to ensure that you've got a good couple cities (depending on empire size/difficulty setting/time into the game) working to keep your research levels high and your taxes paid off. Going just farms and mines may work for a little while (especially with specialist economies), but never should you overlook good old reliable cottages.

Also, if you're concerned about the cottages getting razed, put them in your inner/rear cities where they're nowhere close to the enemy. As a general rule, the cities on your borders should be production-oriented and the cities nowhere near enemies should be commercially-oriented. This ensures that military units can be produced and reinforced quickly while your financial underbelly is safe.
 
I´m pretty sure your chance of discovering a new resource increases with the amount of worked mine titles... I know i read a thread about this ...will try to dig it up asap.

I think all mined tiles have the chance of popping a brand new resource, but you DO have to be working the tile at the time.

That is different to having resources (say coal) appear when you discover the relevant tech - they pop up in a predetermined location irrespective of what the tile is doing. Too bad if your uranium pops up under a town! :cry:
 
Too bad if your uranium pops up under a town! :cry:

Oh it's not that bad. You still get the uranium, you just don't get to mine it proper.
 
Diamond,if it's your only source of uranium, I'd guess you're probably gonna mine it. Just a pity when it pops under a thriving town, instead of on a nice already-mined hillside or something!
 
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