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Could someone explain to me step by step what this guy did?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by RoboEmperor, Sep 23, 2020.

  1. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  2. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    This sounds like a bad question. Why do you care what exactly this particular guy did?

    Maybe you want to ask for general deity Korea OCC strategy - in that case:

    1. build Pyramids, Oracle and Kilwa Kisiwani if possible. (Pyramids and KK can be hard due to location restriction.) Mausoleum can also be good depend on where you are.
    2. Use Pingala and Magnus, for the rest of the Gov. titles use it on Amani.
    3. Sell your strategic resources and diplomatic favor so you have gold.
    4. Try to get the GP that provide trade route capacity so you will have 4-5 of those.
    5. If you want to declare war and pillage, go for it.
    6. There are some silly exploits like neighborhood gold, to exploit or not, it's up to you.

    In general OCC is not that hard and you will have more units in early game. It's not easy to always get golden age so you may want to plan a dark age and then a heroic one.
     
  3. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    Could you be a lot more detailed?

    Pyramids is +1 builder charge. Why does that matter?
    Kilwa, why is it good for OCC korea?
    If I sell my strategic resources for gold, what do I spend my gold on?

    Could you explain step by step how to win OCC Korea and the reason behind each decision?
     
  4. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    Sorry if you feel like those need to be explained then maybe try deity in general before you get your hands on OCC. How do you win a deity science victory in general? What is your approach? What are the key steps of yours?
     
  5. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    It's been a while but I just restart until I have enough space for 9-10 cities with at least 2 science city states near me. And then I fit all 9-10 cities under one Colosseum and turtle with ranged units. And then I get Giant Death Robot at like turn 270 and proceed to wipe the map clean with them.

    I am a Tall player and this 10 city before turn 100 **** is stressing the **** out of me to the point I am legitimately gonna quit. The setup fails because of Mountains and Coasts, or lack of hills. So I go down the difficulty and play the game with 4 cities. Also rerolling until I get at least 2 science city states is also stressful as **** so I've been experimenting with 0 city state games.

    End result I hit 300 science, and my GDRs come out at turn 330-340. Sad.

    Then I found this guy doing a turn 298 deity victory as OCC korea. So I'm trying to figure out every aspect of it so I can replicate it, then maybe apply it to my 4 city strat or just stay OCC since I love OCC (been doing OCC in Civ 5 and Beyond Earth by choice).

    So I come here and ask people how the hell did that one city guy hit 300 beakers with one city when his 2 science city states died on him.
     
  6. KKirrin

    KKirrin Chieftain

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    the cliff notes version is that if you want crazy science in occ you need to build both oxford (+20% or so) and kilwa (+30% with two scientific city states) and you need to protect your science states with a ring of warriors/scouts/builders/whatever. religion also helps a lot if you can manage it for the science belief and spread that around in the early-mid game. every little bit helps.

    given the level of detail you're after you should probably check out some youtube occ videos, there's a korea deity occ science one up there.

    this might be of interest too, 280 deity science win as china, outdated at this point but still an incredibly helpful write up

    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/occ-one-city-challenge.656093/
     
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  7. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    In this case I read this as "I never won a peaceful science victory". So before you worry about anything OCC, Try win a peaceful deity victory first. And you need to understand where science come from. OCC science can be as high as 500 after Globalization.

    Normally a city get 80 science after research lab. But in the Korea OCC case, if you have Oxford, Kilwa Kisiwani with 2 science CS and a fully promoted Pingala, you get as base (assuming late game 20 population, 2 science CS, 6+ envoys each):

    30 from population.
    2 from Palace.
    4 from Campus base adjacency.
    6 from library (8 if you have Hypatia) with Rationalism
    12 from University (16 if you have Newton) with Rationalism
    22 from Research Lab with Rationalism.
    9 from 3 specialists in the campus.
    3-4 trade route to a science ally that's 6 - 12

    That's almost 100. (And in OCC you usually have Great Library that's another +2.)

    Now the modifiers:
    Pingala +15%
    6 promotion governor +18%
    Oxford +20%
    Kilwa +30%
    Ecstatic +10%

    That's +93% so about 180. If you are suzerain of say, 10 CS (doable). The Raj policy will give you 20 science. After Globalization the Space Station policy will give you +50% on top of this. So that's 300.
     
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  8. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/how-to-maximize-science.646369/

    That's the thread I opened 2 years ago so I am capable of peaceful deity victory, just not enough for OCC.

    I did forget the vast majority of your science boost came from that suzerain policy card.

    Alright thanks to the both of you. I guess you really can't remove city states from this game.
     
  9. Buktu

    Buktu Warlord

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    A question that is not answerd by now is the pyramids one. You want to build the build the royal society in your government plaza. This allows you to spend your builder charges for district projects so you can speed up all of your spacerace projects with builders. The ammount of produciton you get from this depends on the charges your builders have left. You can also boost science projects with builders if you have enough money to constantly buy them.
     
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  10. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    I wrote a fairly detailed report of a T280 peaceful OCC win using China a while ago. This is in Gathering Storm but several updates ago, still most of it is relevant to the current patch:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/occ-one-city-challenge.656093/

    Any Civ can win OCC but I like China a lot because you have a very good chance of grabbing lots of early wonders like Oracle, Temple of Artemis, and Great Library with their special ability. The basic way to win is to crank out some nice early wonders, carefully plan all your districts and improvements very early to maximize efficiency (since you only have 36 tiles to work with, and some may be lost to water or mountains), befriend all the AIs, make sure to grab Kilwa and Oxford, and use spies to sabotage enemy Spaceports and protect your own. Cross-Cultural Dialogue is a great way to boost your science. In my game I used the old Work Ethic for 30% production boost, but now it would only be like 6 extra production because of the rework. Feed the World or Choral Music might be better choices nowadays.

    Not 100% sure about Pyramids being that great. It will result indoor Builders contributing 12% instead of 10% to projects (or 14% instead of 12% with China), but in OCC you have plenty of time for each space project because tech is so slow. So, this would maybe help cut a turn off Exoplanet or Lasers at the most considering your base production should be huge with a city close to 30 population. Still might be worth it with China since you can just rush it with Builders, but with any other Civ I would invest the 220h in other things.

    I managed to get up to 681.3spt on the last turn:

    15 from 30 population (0.5 per citizen base)
    30 from Pingula (1.0 per citizen bonus)
    2 from Palace
    6 from Science City State bonus (x3) to capital
    6 from Campus (3 adjacency, doubled by Five Year Plan policy)
    40 from Campus buildings (14 base, doubled by Rationalism, and +12 from three City States)
    10 from tiles (rainforests boosted with +1s by Zoo)
    6 from citizens assigned to buildings in Campus
    12 from Trade Routes (boosted by Merchant Confederation and Science Alliance)
    51.9 from Campus Research Grants

    All these yields total 180.9spt and are assigned to the capital and boosted an additional 90%

    +10% from happiness
    +15% from Pingula
    +15% from Geneva Suzerain bonus
    +20% from Oxford
    +30% from Kilwa
    The modified total is 343.8spt

    Cross-cultural Dialogue adds 77.7 and Raj add 18 - these are considered global and not part of the city and bring the total to 438.4spt.

    Finally, we add a bonus of 45% from International Space Agency with Suzerain of 9 city states and a bonus of 10% from having a level 3 Research Alliance for the total of 681.3spt.

    In this example I was lucky to have 3 science city states. I formed rings of Warriors around them so they could not be killed, since I was playing totally peaceful and could not declare to free them if conquered. Three other city states were killed, did not have enough units to cover them all. Note since the patch the city states would be slightly more useful by providing +1 to library+ capital, +2 to university, and +3 to research lab for a total of +19 instead of +12. Also, the Diplomatic Quarter did not exist yet when I played this one and could provide a bunch more science with consulate and chancery.
     
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  11. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    Ok I figured out what I was doing wrong. Population matters a lot. First game in a while that I was in flat land with no mountains and my science output was a good 20% higher. 336 without any city states (because none were near me).

    Anyways thanks guys you guys were a huge help to me. I'm still having trouble getting Kilwa though.

    I've also got better at hunting specific great people. Hardest one is Johnny Rockefeller. On a Tiny Emperor map the AI just can't blast through the modern great merchants fast enough to get to Johnny at which point we hit atomic and skip over it. Really hard since Johnny's +3 oil is the only way I can take cities because unless I get lucky with uranium cities are literally unconquerable without rocket artillery.

    Having said that, does anyone know of a way that modern armors and mechanized infantry can take cities with max walls?
     
  12. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    Population does matter since it controls the number of districts you can build and with Pingala it's effectively 1.725 science per population (1.995 as Korea) (More if you have Mausoleum).

    Taking cities with max walls... you'd better use siege weapon and/or bombers. If you have to use Melee units, then pillage district first and be patient. If Victor is in the target city then spy may be useful (to remove it). And do everything to make your units stronger (Fascism, spy listening post, Oligarchy legacy, Military Alliance, war of religion... etc.)
     
  13. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    Rockefeller is rough. Maybe best bet is to save all your pillage faith and try to scoop him that way.

    Kilwa an be really tough with one city, as you can't just plan to chop it unless you have a really woody start. If you are luck the first Great Engineer will be Isidore, who can knock out more than half of Kilwa. You can probably buy him with gold or faith since he is an early one. When I play OCC the most white-knuckle part of the game is definitely when Kilwa is being built.
     
  14. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    Why Rockefeller? I don't see him any good so I'm a bit confused. What's good about him?
     
  15. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    In OCC, more often than not there will be no Oil in your territory. Since you can't just found a new city or conquer one to get Oil, Rockefeller is very handy as an alternate source so you can still build Tanks and such.

    Here is a quicker T254 Violent OCC victory. This one was with Norway - they are great for pillaging, which added up to almost 20,000s by the end of the game. I also had fun with Fez, earning over 5000s from their ability. I really botched this game and actually game within a turn of dying! Not sure if the AI intentionally avoided taking my capital - they actually moved a unit that could have fired the killshot towards a City State instead at the last minute. Anyway, with better play I am sure I could have won a dozen turns earlier. Note either Peaceful or Violent OCC will probably take longer these days because they brought back to 20% penalty to researching ahead of the game era.
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/occ-one-city-challenge-with-norway.656334/
     
  16. RoboEmperor

    RoboEmperor Chieftain

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    Without oil you're stuck with machinegun and modern AT. Armies of Machineguns & modern ATs v.s. city walls, you're not gonna get anything done.

    Thanks!
     

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