Could there be a coup in the US come election time?
- Thread starter aimeeandbeatles
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mitsho
Deity
I didn't specify 'coup' myself, I asked the mods to split it off from the many-questions thread and it's the title they picked for me.
Yeah, it seems like I saw the thread right in between that time. When there was only one post in the thread. So my post was clearly aimed at the question in the title - and now doesn‘t fit at all.
But nevertheless, I want to point to the Transition integrity project once more. This is a four minute listen on NPR: https://www.npr.org/2020/07/30/8973...e-election-goes-off-the-rails?t=1598171419280
The result of the exercise is that there will not be an election „night“ in November, but most certainly an election week then followed by court cases if the result is tight. And that makes the Media very crucial in how they will report the results coming in.
Socrates99
Bottoms up!
He said republicans were talking about it. Just like liberals are doing here. This took me about 15 sec to find:President Obama Confirms He Will Refuse to Leave Office If Trump Is Elected
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-confirms-he-will-refuse-to-leave-office/
The crucial difference being that it wasn't Obama who claimed that he might refuse to leave. Trump, on the other hand, being entirely oblivious to everything wrong with him, openly has stated he might refuse to accept the result and ask for checks etc etc.
Socrates99
Bottoms up!
Yeah, that's true. Republicans did project some pretty insane stuff on him.
The difference doesn't really matter though. There's no way Trump could white knuckle control beyond his normal term. He just doesn't have enough support from the agencies and military that he'd need to pull it off. Have people really missed all the whining about the deep state being against him? The intelligence agencies dislike him and the military leaders dont respect him.
I've seen the fact that the NDSP was a minority party that never had full popular support brought up. What it did have was majority military support. After the Night of the Long Knives soldiers had to take an oath of loyalty to the NDSP. This parallel can go back to every strongman who wrested control from the previous government. Ceasar, Hitler, Napoleon, etc. they did it because they held sway over the actual power.
Private Bonespurs doesn't have that, especially when his opponent is as nonthreatening to the institution as Biden is and had a son of his own in the service. I don't think nor do I want the military to intervene but that's the point. In order for him to pull it off they'd need to. If people think the BLM riots are bad wait til Trump tries to illegally keep power.
The difference absolutely does matter, though. Because even in the doomed-to-be-unsuccessful attempt, he'd be further eroding trust in American democracy.
Socrates99
Bottoms up!
Or reaffirming faith that no one person can override the checks and balances. That the system is resilient enough to withstand that onslaught.
I'm not worried though. He's not going to do it. He's just doing what he did in 2016. Creating a narrative where when he loses he has an out. A claim that he's a winner and the only way someone can beat him is by cheating. Considering how long conservatives have been claiming election shenanigans it won't change where we are right now.
Your faith is not the issue though, nor is mine. It is the faith of those who believe Trump in the first place. Those minds are being poisoned, and in 2016 the result was "we have huge amounts of voter fraud, but yay the system works" and in 2020 for them it will be "our system doesn't work" and the closer the results are (assuming a Trump loss) the more convinced of this that they will be. Remember 2008 and Dems thinking that if it is essentially a tie, that the system doesn't work. Trump fans are going to feel that way even when the result isn't down to a few thousand votes in a state on which the EC balance rests one way or the other.
Lexicus
Deity
I dunno, @IglooDude, I think maybe the real, longer-term problem may end up being the center's retention of faith in the system even as Trump and the GOP rig the election right in front of everyone's faces.
The frog in the pot is being tricked into thinking that it's all tolerable by the 24 hour news cycle.
thecrazyscot
Spiffy
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I don't think there will be a coup in this election. That would require the military to throw their weight behind Trump, which they won't.
I think the bigger problem is that a coup actually seems marginally feasible at this point. The peaceful transfer of power has been an absolute given for most of US history, and is foundational to our stability. Once the peaceful transfer of power is no longer a given, you can't just stuff that back into the box.
I think the bigger problem is that a coup actually seems marginally feasible at this point. The peaceful transfer of power has been an absolute given for most of US history, and is foundational to our stability. Once the peaceful transfer of power is no longer a given, you can't just stuff that back into the box.
Socrates99
Bottoms up!
The GoP has been doing that for decades. It's nothing new. I don't like it. I want them to stop but this isn't some new existential threat that hasn't existed for most of my life.
Berzerker
Deity
Candidates are allowed those checks
You think American democracy is worthy of trust? I think Trump is exposing why the trust has eroded. Why are we still in all these wars? Because democracy is run by the people who profit from war, Wall St, the Pentagon, the local factory building weapons.
Trump is the president - usually the party in power is able to rig elections, not some shadowy deep state.
Besides, the military-industrial complex does fine under Trump, didn't Trump brag about how he uses the US army as a mercenary force for Saudi Arabia?
Socrates99
Bottoms up!
States and local municipalities run the elections not the federal government. Trump's mostly impotent when it comes to rigging.Trump is the president - usually the party in power is able to rig elections, not some shadowy deep state.
Besides, the military-industrial complex does fine under Trump, didn't Trump brag about how he uses the US army as a mercenary force for Saudi Arabia?
Berzerker
Deity
Trump is the president - usually the party in power is able to rig elections, not some shadowy deep state.
Besides, the military-industrial complex does fine under Trump, didn't Trump brag about how he uses the US army as a mercenary force for Saudi Arabia?
True, Trump has not slowed the weapons makers nor will he. But thats inevitable if we reduce our footprint and Trump has been trying to do that, enough to rattle their sabers. Its more about policy direction. As for SA, I think we sent in technicians for aerial defense after missiles from Yemen hit oil production.
warpus
In pork I trust
No offense to anyone in here who's actually working for the American government, but the levels of incompetence present within would probably preclude any sort of actual coup.
However, if Trump refuses to leave, I hope somebody just drags him out and throws him in the trash. Your country has shown this guy way too much respect
However, if Trump refuses to leave, I hope somebody just drags him out and throws him in the trash. Your country has shown this guy way too much respect
