Council of Esus: Declare war without ejection?

[jacktannery]

Council of Esus: Declare war without ejection?

I have a question about this ability – I tried it out and it didn’t seem to work. I am playing Svaeltefar (FF 0.50 Patch E) with CoE State Religion, and placed all of my assassins beside each of the Sheiam cities (open borders), then declared war! Brilliant, I thought, they are all doomed! But then all my units were ejected back to my borders, and eaten alive by 30+ pyre zombies.

So what am I doing wrong? None of my units had Hidden Nationality – is that the problem? And I have not yet built Nox Noctis. I definitely have CoE as the state religion. Was this removed because it was too powerful? – or is there a further tech prerequisite? Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Sarisin]

Council of Esus: Declare war without ejection?

I have a question about this ability – I tried it out and it didn’t seem to work. I am playing Svaeltefar (FF 0.50 Patch E) with CoE State Religion, and placed all of my assassins beside each of the Sheiam cities (open borders), then declared war! Brilliant, I thought, they are all doomed! But then all my units were ejected back to my borders, and eaten alive by 30+ pyre zombies.

So what am I doing wrong? None of my units had Hidden Nationality – is that the problem? And I have not yet built Nox Noctis. I definitely have CoE as the state religion. Was this removed because it was too powerful? – or is there a further tech prerequisite? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Jack, I thought FF/FFH always worked that way whether you had CoE or not. When you declare war, your units are bounced out of the territory of the civ you declared war on.

I might be mistaken, but this just happened in my game where there were 2-3 Calabim units in my territory. When you declare war, the Open Borders agreement is canceled first, kicking out the units. Those Calabim units were kicked outside my borders. I had Nox Noctis, but not CoE as my state religion, but I don't think that made any difference.

Or, are you saying your units were not just kicked outside the Sheaim borders, but some distance away to your own borders? If so, I don't know the answer. If your troops were just kicked outside the Sheaim borders, then that makes sense to me.

 

[Methuselah]

If your troops were just kicked outside the Sheaim borders, then that makes sense to me.

You're semi-right.

If he had an open border agreement, that would explain why his men were kicked out - the game forces them out (not 100% sure on this. )

If he didn't, then his men should not have been kicked out - it's a feature of CoE (unless this was changed in FF.)

 

[Vehem]

You're semi-right.

If he had an open border agreement, that would explain why his men were kicked out - the game forces them out (not 100% sure on this. )

If he didn't, then his men should not have been kicked out - it's a feature of CoE (unless this was changed in FF.)

Should work the same way as it does in FfH - will check on it.

On the first point - how does a unit get inside enemy territory without Open Borders anyway? (barring "can explore rival").

 

[Methuselah]

Should work the same way as it does in FfH - will check on it.

On the first point - how does a unit get inside enemy territory without Open Borders anyway? (barring "can explore rival").

It's not meant to kick them out even with an open border agreement, I'm suggesting what may have caused it (FF may have upset something that does it, the feature currently works fine in FFH (just tested.))

 

[jacktannery]

Thanks, I gathered that this is the way it was supposed to work. If it truly doesn't work in FF, then it really needs to be fixed, as this is the main reason for chosing the CoE religion. The CoE promotions don't seem all that fantastic (three promotions to get +20% withdrawal rate, then a fourth the explore rival borders).

 

[Vehem]

It's not meant to kick them out even with an open border agreement, I'm suggesting what may have caused it (FF may have upset something that does it, the feature currently works fine in FFH (just tested.))

Just checked it in FF and it seems to work there too. Had Varn sign open borders with Ethne, then declared with a Warrior adjacent to her capital. Warrior stayed put (no bounce).

Was there time for the State Religion to take effect (anarchy over) before you declared jacktannery? If you'd had the religion for a while, did you change civics just before (turning on Warfare etc?). I'm not sure if count as having the religion during periods of anarchy for purposes of the sneak attack...

Failing that - if you have a save game where the same thing happens, I'd love to see what's causing it.

 

[jacktannery]

Vehem, I am glad to see that CoE works fine in FF for you.

I have tried it again at various points in my current game, and I can confirm that in all cases, having CoE as state religion, all of my units get kicked out of the enemy borders when war is declared EXCEPT those with the 'sneaky' CoE promotion; however, I should say that those units with sneaky were also the only units I had with the CoE religion-promotion, whilst all my other units were non-religious or else FoL. Don't know if that's relevent.

A save game is below - my units are about to enter the Shieam territory to position themselves. I was definately not in anarchy when I declared war - I really can't work out what I did wrong.

 

[Vehem]

A save game is below - my units are about to enter the Shieam territory to position themselves. I was definately not in anarchy when I declared war - I really can't work out what I did wrong.

Thanks - I patched back to E and tried it out - had the same issue you're describing. Then tried the same experiment I tried earlier (which worked fine under PatchF+) and had the same problem. Might be that something was fixed between Patch E and Patch F that I missed... Xienwolf may be able to confirm that...

EDIT: Same test run again with Patch F. Works as it should. I think we may have inherited a fix from FfH2 when we merged the DLL from Patch T, but didn't realize.

 

[Ksi]

Try alt clicking war? That's the one that works for me in FFH.

 

[jacktannery]

Try alt clicking war? That's the one that works for me in FFH.

No, that doesn't work either. Like Vehem said, it must have been a bug in Patch E that is now fixed with F. It's just unfortunate that I played my first CoE game on the E patch. Oh well.