Counterespionage with recruit no longer viable after fall patch?

[funkymunky]

Before the fall patch, I would usually find that putting a spy in my capital would eventually lead to them catching enemy spies after about 3 or 4 stolen techs on average. This had proven to be good way to level up those new spy recruits. However, in my latest game since the fall patch, I put a spy recruit in my capital and found that more than half a dozen techs have been stolen without a single capture. This happened despite having also built a police station and constabulary in the capital. I know Firaxis programmers made some changes in the effectiveness of spies in the fall patch based on their experience level, so I was wondering if anyone else has noticed counter-espionage to be as ineffective as what I have found, or if I have just been really unlucky in this game? This is really the first game since the fall patch I've played where I was in a significant tech lead, so I can't say if this is a regular thing. Would some folk care to share their experiences?

 

[Browd]

I think you just had a run of bad luck. In my experience, recruits will still catch spies and level up.

 

[Novalia]

seems the same to me.. catch spies as frequently as before.. bad luck for you perhaps.

 

[victorpras]

Is it very important to have a spy for counterintelligence in capital? What if I just build constabulary/police station and have the spy somewhere else (for CS coup or diplomat)?

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

I think you just had a run of bad luck. In my experience, recruits will still catch spies and level up.

^ This.

I just had a game where my counter-espionage spy went from Recruit to Special Agent in a single turn when he caught all three enemy spies who tried to steal a tech that turn.

Swapped him out with another Recruit and sent the Special Agent to rig elections.

Is it very important to have a spy for counterintelligence in capital? What if I just build constabulary/police station and have the spy somewhere else (for CS coup or diplomat)?

It depends where you are in terms of technology relative to other civs...if you're the clear leader and quite a few techs ahead of everyone else, they're all going to try and steal from you, hence the importance of counter-espionage. If you're on the same level or behind in tech, then it's obviously not as important to perform counter-espionage.

 

[phillipwyllie]

I'm like the OP, always has a bad run at counter espionage. Except 2 games ago when my industrial era spy caught 2 attempts in a row. I'm not to sure about this but I usually stick my counter-spys in the my cities that that have the largest potential, thinking the AI will target those cities first.

It could do with the operating level of the spys involved(if you're dominant your spy operates at +2 levels).

 

[Novalia]

Sometimes it's not so bad letting tha AI steal from you. If you're in a game with AI friends and RA possibilities, if your science is too far ahead of them you'll always pay a premium for RAs. At times I'll let the AI have some techs while I get myself some CS influence instead.

 

[MKDELTA3]

I think you just had a run of bad luck. In my experience, recruits will still catch spies and level up.

Same here.

 

[funkymunky]

So, one question for those who have successfully caught rival spies: did you place your spy in the capital, and was your capital your biggest science city? In this game, my capital was not my big science generator, but actually I had another city, Barcelona, generating my main science. However, my capital, Rome, is the city the game kept saying spies were stealing from.

I'm just wondering if maybe the AI was actually stealing from Barcelona instead of Rome, but was incorrectly reporting that the spies were stealing from Rome. I didn't think to put a spy in Barcelona because the message always referred to Rome, and I wanted to use most of my spies for other missions instead. I did have a constabulary and police station in both cities though.

 

[Browd]

Yes and yes. But in my experience techs are sometimes stolen from a secondary city and the notifications do mot appear bugged. You may know that your secondary city is your science city, but the AI probably does not. In any event it is often more profitable to steal from a secondary city, where the AI won't have a counterspy. Here, you've flipped that calculus.

 

[Plumfairy]

Before the fall patch, I would usually find that putting a spy in my capital would eventually lead to them catching enemy spies after about 3 or 4 stolen techs on average. This had proven to be good way to level up those new spy recruits. However, in my latest game since the fall patch, I put a spy recruit in my capital and found that more than half a dozen techs have been stolen without a single capture. This happened despite having also built a police station and constabulary in the capital.

If your goal is to level your spy, then building constabularies and police stations are actually hurting you. The only effect of those buildings is to make attempts by foreign spies to steal tech take longer. So instead of being able to steal a tech every 10 turns, they would try to steal a tech every 15 turns. Fewer tech steal attempts = fewer chances for your spy to catch them = slower leveling.

 

[phillipwyllie]

If your goal is to level your spy, then building constabularies and police stations are actually hurting you..

I take it The Great Firewall and the National Intelligence agency hurt as well. In one game I had both and put my level 3 spy in my capital, and all others spys in other cities thinking I had a wall of steel, more like a wall of paper......

 

[Plumfairy]

I take it The Great Firewall and the National Intelligence agency hurt as well.

I don't know, actually. Given how the NI is worded, I suspect that enemy spies are 15% easier to catch, which would help you level your spies. And as for The Great Firewall.... I have no idea. Is the 90% failure rate checked, and then the spy's regular espionage attempt checked on a separate roll? Or does TGF just make it 90% easier to catch enemy spies? If it's the former, it would be a huge hindrance. If it's the latter, it would be a huge help.

In one game I had both and put my level 3 spy in my capital, and all others spys in other cities thinking I had a wall of steel, more like a wall of paper......

Just to be clear, when I said the Constabulary & the Police Station were hindrances, I was only talking about leveling your spies. If your goal is to prevent enemies from stealing tech, then all the anti-spying stuff helps. The set-up you describe made you damn near immune from tech theft.