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Counterproposals Opened for VP Congress (Special) Session #8

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Hey all,

As it would take a miracle for the (7-92) Integrate 4UC Mod Into Vox Populi vote to fail at this point, counterproposals are now opened for Session #8 until July 18, 2024 at 10 AM CDT, after which the Sponsorship, Processing, Voting, Implementation and Playtesting Phases will take place normally. There will be no Proposal Phase during this session.

Only counterproposals to @pineappledan's civilization threads are permitted (or counterproposals to those counterproposals) are allowed. The goal of this Counterproposal Phase is to come up with a kit for all 43 civilizations that the community likes best. During the Voting Phase, voters will select from the options for a civ's kit which have been sponsored. If only one option is sponsored, that option will get integrated automatically (no followup vote).

No other proposals are allowed, except for the two that I'm going to add to the Voting Phase which are followups on previous VP Congress proposals and very easy to integrate. This is because it will take a huge amount of developer time to integrate 4UC.

Should the 4UC vote miraculously fail, all counterproposal threads will be moved to Failed Proposals, but this is really unlikely.

I'm allowing more than a month of counterproposal time because of how complex this integration is - we are changing all 43 civs after all!

(Counter)Propose away!
 
Don't forget that proposals need to be sponsored to pass, even if there's only one.

Which means you should at least make one counterproposal that's plausible to implement (both effect and AI).
 
Since some basic components are already changed in existing proposals, there should be some clarifications:

1) Can everyone counterpropose changes to all 4UC, even to basic 2UC?
2) Can everyone counterpropose changes to UA?
3) Can we create shared counterproposal on 2 or more topics at one time? (Like swapping abilities of components belonged to different Civs, for example to 8-01 and 8-02)
 
So we create new threads (8-0Xa) for counterproposals like during previous VPC, and those who are sponsored will be merged for the final vote ?
 
Since some basic components are already changed in existing proposals, there should be some clarifications:

1) Can everyone counterpropose changes to all 4UC, even to basic 2UC?
2) Can everyone counterpropose changes to UA?
3) Can we create shared counterproposal on 2 or more topics at one time? (Like swapping abilities of components belonged to different Civs, for example to 8-01 and 8-02)
So we create new threads (8-0Xa) for counterproposals like during previous VPC, and those who are sponsored will be merged for the final vote ?
Yes to all, although for 3) the Magi may require merging or separating at their discretion.

Once I appoint the new ones. Should probably do that.
 
Is there a limitation of the types and numbers of UCs per civ?

In 2UC it's a simple one unique unit + one unique building/improvement pair. Meanwhile the existing 4UC mod mostly has 2 unique units + 2 unique buildings/improvements, but may have outliers like 3 unique units or adding 3 additional components and counting them as 2.

@Hinin wants to have 2 unique military units + 2 economic components per civ, but that's a vague and undefined classification, and current VP does not have 1 unique military unit + 1 economic component either.
 
Based on the comments, lots of the guys seem to have ideas for the counter proposals, but they haven't posted them yet. Seeing as Hinin and I are the only ones who have counter-proposed with only 2 days left, would you consider giving a one week extension? The voting for this special session has been going by quite fast, if someone forgot to login one week he'd miss a vote.
 
Based on the comments, lots of the guys seem to have ideas for the counter proposals, but they haven't posted them yet. Seeing as Hinin and I are the only ones who have counter-proposed with only 2 days left, would you consider giving a one week extension? The voting for this special session has been going by quite fast, if someone forgot to login one week he'd miss a vote.
Counterproposals can be made until July 18, not June 18.
 
Is there a limitation of the types and numbers of UCs per civ?

In 2UC it's a simple one unique unit + one unique building/improvement pair. Meanwhile the existing 4UC mod mostly has 2 unique units + 2 unique buildings/improvements, but may have outliers like 3 unique units or adding 3 additional components and counting them as 2.

@Hinin wants to have 2 unique military units + 2 economic components per civ, but that's a vague and undefined classification, and current VP does not have 1 unique military unit + 1 economic component either.
No type limit, 4 UC number limit (although if you want to propose something that leads directly to another component, like the American World Wonders, Khan -> Ordo, or Venice's UNW, that's okay since it's essentially part of the same component).
 
Even if for a civ a proposal with 5UC wins the vote?
Such a proposal is invalid and will be vetoed.
(although if you want to propose something that leads directly to another component, like the American World Wonders, Khan -> Ordo, or Venice's UNW, that's okay since it's essentially part of the same component).
With this exception, as we have precedent for it.
 
The existing Venice already has 5UC.
 
The existing Venice already has 5UC.
Both unique ships are unlocked at the same time, replace the same unit and are made to be used simultaneously and complementarily to one another, all this within the kit of a civ that has no military component without 4UC.

To me, Venice is such an anomaly in terms of design within the VP ecosystem that it shouldn't be taken as a basis for comparison.
 
Well, such exceptions makes it that it's not really a hard rule, more like a guideline, which is fine. I'm not fond of restrictions for the sake of restrictions without a good reason.
 
Sorry, but it should be posted here

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