Courthouses? No thanks.

[King Flevance]

This is the AI's attitude with Code of Laws it seems. I recently started playing Civ 4 BTS again in the past month and *I think* the AI doesn't weight CoL very heavily. Out of the last 7 games I have played, all 7 had the AI without CoL well into the game. (Some I would actually get to the renessaince era and over half didn't have it!!) I play Prince and Monarach level.

Here is an odd thing too though, the AI continues to expand despite their lack of courthouses. I have seen 15~20 city empires with no courthouses. I have no idea how they do that but that isn't my point. (I am building into it.) During this long period of settler pumping, they have researched about 7~15 techs. Not one of which being CoL. But of course they are ALWAYS coming to me and asking for it. I always say no because I don't see any tech in that time as being worth the trade. MAYBE Casting. Maybe. If I am drunk. But I play No tech brokering so that means maybe I will trade it to 1 guy.

OK, OK. The point. Any civ (usually 3/4 of the ones on the map) that avoids this I usually roll over due to a superior by far economy. They overexpand, I take those extra cities and by the time they get back on track they are practically dead or they are now my vassal. With this many civs avoiding CoL like the plague it is a fun killer.

I am wondering if anyone else encounters this problem. ANd erhaps hear some suggestions on how I should reweight CoL. (I am going to but I would love some input before I just go in and flip the numbers around.)

 

[Shekwan]

Metal casting is better than CoLs imo. It increaese production big time. And its worth a lot more beakers in terms of early game beaker production.

 

[Genv [FP]]

I think the AI REXes early in the game - That's why it's easy to top the score board on noble difficulty.

 

[King Flevance]

Metal casting is better than CoLs imo. It increaese production big time. And its worth a lot more beakers in terms of early game beaker production.

Indeed this is all true which is why it is the only tech I will consider making an offer with.But there are ways to get more hammers that don't cost the beakers and through trade I would be obtaining this tech at the cost of aiding an AI's economy so it is entirely situational on who and when I would make this trade. (I hold the upper hand as well though because my economy is already off to a better start to be able to research such a heavy tech than the AI that already has it. I can gain on him.)

So have you guys noticed this behavior with COL and the AI? I am curious to see if others notice the same thing. As well as hear any input anyone has on how this may be weighted differently if so.

 

[pxpdoo]

Think of a "Courthouse" as if it were a "Market" or "Grocer," especially if your empire is large. It is worth it.

 

[King Flevance]

You don't have to tell me px, tell the AI.

Once the AI does have CoL though, it seems to build courthouses absolutely everywhere. Almost every city I capture seems to have a courthouse in it.

Yeah once they have it they use it from the starting pistol which makes it odd that they don't go for it early as well. It even has a religion tied to it. I wonder if the religion already being founded actually makes them want it less.

BTW Olleus could you post a link to your Civ 4.5 mod? It is BTS compatible right? I was looking for it since the new change but I don't see it anywhere.

 

[pxpdoo]

Told the AI, but they just kept doing the 'Robot' thing. It's like they're machines, or something...

 

[Genv [FP]]

I just played a BTS game where the AI got to the oracle before me, and popped COL.


Seems fine.

 

[oranges]

I just played a BTS game where the AI got to the oracle before me, and popped COL.


Seems fine.

That would point towards the interpretation that they prioritize it only as long as it would mean they'd get to establish religion and tend to neglect it afterwards.

I've noticed the same, but the city spammers unfortunately do not seem to lag behind in tech. Most do just fine with 15 cities before CoL

 

[MqsTout]

The AI, in games I've noticed, values Code of Laws *very* highly in diplomacy trades. It's also one of those techs they hold on to not trading for a while.

 

[glaivemaster]

I find the AI tends to like Code of Laws, though I think they prefer the religion over the Courthouses or anything else tied to it

I generally find when one AI gets it, they all get it fairly quickly. When I get it, they value it highly in trade, and I generally trade it quite early for whatever I can get. Sounds like hoarding it might be fun though, other than the constant begging and threats

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

The AI certainly does value a tech much less if it gives a bonus to the first to discover it. Get CoL first to make them avoid it and break their econ. Techs that enable wonders also lose value in the eyes of the AI if the wonder is already built. Trade with the AI one turn before you complete a wonder unless you suspect it has a GE on hand.

 

[King Flevance]

I am actually going to change the weght the AI puts on it so that this problem will not factor in as much. The thing I don't like about this is the ability to:

Get CoL first to make them avoid it and break their econ.

For me at least this feels like a cheap tactic. And quite honestly an exploit. Its feels similar to previous Civ titles moving units out of city A so the AI moves it's army towards it, then next turn moving them back in and move the units out of City B so that you hold off the computer making him run back and forth.

Anyways I checked out the code and it drops alot of weight once the religion has been founded as a few people suggested. It has a weight of 7 for religion. (Writing has a weight of 10 for science) Once the religion has been founded the weight drops to a 5 under economical and a 4 for growth making it easily overshadowed by other tech weights around that time. Oddly I found calendar outweighs it. (6 Weight) but oddly it is in the field of science. That isn't even the end of the strange weighting. No point in telling them all but I have made a couple adjustments bumping the weight to 10 economically and 8 for growth. I guess I will see how that works out.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

For me at least this feels like a cheap tactic. And quite honestly an exploit. Its feels similar to previous Civ titles moving units out of city A so the AI moves it's army towards it, then next turn moving them back in and move the units out of City B so that you hold off the computer making him run back and forth.

Thank you for an excellent tip! I'll use that tactic the next time I'm involved in a war.

 

[pxpdoo]

Thank you for an excellent tip! I'll use that tactic the next time I'm involved in a war.

Seconded.

 

[PimpyMicPimp]

In my current game the biggest Civ didn't have CoL. Needless to say, his economy was crap.

The AI seems to overexpand more often than not.

 

[IronicBuddha]

Shaka tends to be prone to this - just as a test, one game I put the two of us on a huge highlands map and worldbuilder'd myself behind some mountains and waited to see how big he could get.. needless to say without someone else around to support his habits he doesn't do too well.

 

[King Flevance]

Thank you for an excellent tip! I'll use that tactic the next time I'm involved in a war.

It only works on Civ 1-3 because then the AI could ssee past the FOW. IN Civ 4 they can't (unless they have enough espionage) so it wouldn't be as valid.

 

[Diamondeye]

Only read first few replies. I think you are dealing with the issue that the AI tend to prioritize techs it can have a monopoly on. If you get to CoL first, they dont get monopoly, nor a religion, and therefore they dont prioritize it.

I have tried this a couple of times and its really great for having Sitting Bull kill himself off maintenance. His LBs are not hard to dispatch by infantry

BTW welcome back Flevance

 

[IronCrown]

From my experience, the AI values CoL very highly (Emperor/Immortal). But I almost never get it first, maybe that's why.