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COVID-19 virus thread (formerly Wuhan coronavirus)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by aimeeandbeatles, Jan 22, 2020.

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  1. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    Just like the people who ignore hand washing, this cat's humans are ignoring the fact that the cat will lick its paws, and therefore could be at risk of getting sick from whatever toxic crap might be on the street (in general; I've no idea if cats are susceptible to this).

    Canada is repatriating our people from the cruise ship, and even though they've almost served out the 2 weeks' quarantine on the ship, they'll have to do another 2 weeks once they return to Canada.

    A couple of them were interviewed on the news this morning, and while they're relieved to come home, they're upset about being confined for another two weeks.


    Between this and the native blockade of the train tracks that is doing a damn good job of bringing significant sections of our economy to a screeching halt, Canada isn't having the peachiest time lately. Even the Reformacon leadership race is an afterthought on the news.
     
  2. wolfigor

    wolfigor Emperor

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    I know from friends that those masks are unlikely to arrive, because mMostdelivery to China are stopped now.
    If you send masks, you should state on the box that it contains masks so it gets prioritised.
    However they will be stolen immediately on arrival.
     
  3. amadeus

    amadeus Civ2 / Law and Order!

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    https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20200216/k10012288121000.html (Japanese)

    I have quickly translated the quoted parts here:
    On January 16th it was reported that “no new infections have been confirmed but the investigation is continuing” following a confirmed outbreak of the coronavirus at a Yuasa, Wakayama general hospital.

    A total of five people, including doctors, a doctor’s wife, and in-hospital patients have been confirmed to have been infected from Yuasa’s Saiseikai Arita Hospital.

    As the two doctors and two patients came from the hospital’s 3rd floor surgery wing, with the possibility of the infection spreading within the hospital, all doctors and nurses connected to the surgery department, and patients showing symptoms of fever have been tested.

    Wayakama Pref. Governor Nisaka reported on the 16th that of 44 tests performed there have been no new confirmed infections.

    The remaining 9, all nurses, are still under examination.

    Of the approximately 60 people examined, the results will be published within a few days according to Wakayama Prefecture.

    edit: reformatted on PC for easier reading
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  4. wolfigor

    wolfigor Emperor

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    Today the number of new cases of coronavirus on board the ship had risen by 70 to 355: it seems that is much easier to get infected on board of that ship (regardless of being confined in rooms) than in the "wild".
    Repatriation can be done safely and it will expose those passengers to much less risk than remaining on board.
     
  5. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    We learned during Ebola (and should have known forever) that bribing people into quarantine is superior to forcing them into quarantine. I think it's an excellent proxy for determining people's latent authoritarian tendencies AND their comprehension of exponential economics.
     
  6. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    The only conclusion I can take out of those numbers is that it is easy to pass that virus along, period.

    How did we learn that?
     
    Rashiminos likes this.
  7. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    People would not only flee quarantine efforts but also people that needed treatment (but who thought they'd be quarantined if they sought help) would avoid going to the medical centers.

    Having guns and guards in between you and your doctor ends up being not the ideal situation.

    I know that linking to a one hour podcast on Ebola might not get some actual interest, but I found this London School of Economics presentation by an MSF Doctor completely mindblowing.


    Practical and ethical dilemmas of working in the current Ebola crisis
     
    cardgame likes this.
  8. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    I was reading about another cruise ship that was stranded for the last few weeks but it turned out no one on it was sick. The people that were quarantined on it were interviewed and they said that the media shouldn't use the word 'trapped' to describe them because they mostly enjoyed the 2 week extension to their vacation. The cruise ship continued to feed, entertain and give them booze for free while they were quarantined. Up until that interview, the media had been talking about the ship as if it was a harrowing experience for those on it.
     
  9. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

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    If you've read about the one finally allowed to dock in Cambodia, actually at least one from that ship has already turned out to be sick.
     
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  10. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Deity

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    damn i just read the article yesterday
     
  11. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    The underlying issue is that people need to be bribed into quarantine. Anything else is not only deeply inhumane but also prone to all the failures of authoritarian efforts. Every healthy person in a quarantine zone is well-served trying to escape. Unless they're better off in than out.
     
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  12. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    It is not just about the risk to those passengers, but the risk to everyone else.

    Repatriation may merely spread the virus.
     
  13. wolfigor

    wolfigor Emperor

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    Other countries are repatriating their citizens who are aboard of the ship.
    In this way their governments are sending a clear signal that they will care about them.
    The authorities will not leave people enclosed in a place where they are more likely to be infected.
    This gives a boost to credibility: especially at this stage with a relatively low number of people to isolate, it's a good win.
    If you leave your citizens, the message will be the opposite: if you think you maybe even remotely sick, do not trust authorities.
    At this stage western countries can gain a lot credibility with minimal costs.
    A too callous treatment will make them lose their trust capital... And that's a very finite commodity (especially if pandemic will hit the west).
    This is where the Chinese government is already failing: their isolation hospitals are detention camps with rows and rows of bed all next to the other.
    They mix sane and infected people together, making the facilities in slow death camps.
    People in Wuhan already avoid them like the plague (sorry for the pun): they now prefer to hide any suspect of symptoms otherwise them and their families will be in even bigger danger.
    In Wuhan they are strained for resources and they acted too late.
    The western government are not yet at that stage and can build trust.
     
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  14. Thorgalaeg

    Thorgalaeg Deity

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  15. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    I guess my post was invisible? :huh:

    Canada is repatriating the cruise ship passengers. We already flew some people out of Wuhan, and they're doing fine in quarantine on a CFB base. The cruise ship passengers are going to be quarantined in a luxury hotel (obviously the ones who are sick are going to be sent to the hospital). They're allowed outside to get fresh air.

    There are psychological factors to consider as well. I'd probably do better than most people for being cooped up in a passenger cabin on a ship, since I already don't often leave my own apartment. But that's a voluntary decision, and I have luxuries the passengers don't, in that I have windows to look out of, I can leave when I want to, and don't have to worry about not getting my prescriptions (the man interviewed on the news this morning mentioned he was concerned about that). I don't have to wash my clothes in the bathroom sink, and can choose what I want to eat (the pictures of what these people are being fed looks rather unappetizing).
     
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  16. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    With 355 already infected on the ship, they have already lost control, and
    sticking with a policy of evacuation before the virus arrives probably won't work.

    The virus doesn't care about psychological factors or political credibility.

    Flying people round the world is stressful, and for those already infected
    and poorly; it may merely push them over the edge.
     
  17. red_elk

    red_elk Deity

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    What, you think it was a joke? They have a proof!
     
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  18. wolfigor

    wolfigor Emperor

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    This is a confirmation that acting early (like several countries have done) is better that waiting for the problem to fester.
    At the same time, flying people away can be done safely and it's not going to be stressful: those people will be more than happy to get away from the ship. A few hours on a flight (even packed in plastic) is going to be a big relief compared to where they are now.
     
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  19. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    Experience gained in flying uninfected people may be dangerously
    misleading when air lifting a mixture of infected and uninfected people.

    In my experience cruise ship passengers are generally rather wealthy.
    Pandemics have historically been spread by wealthy people fleeing disease.

    But wealthy people are influential so the rules get changed.to let them cross the world.
    And so their comfort and trust may be mis-prioritised over protecting the population.
     
  20. wolfigor

    wolfigor Emperor

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    The fight against s pandemic like covid19 is not a battle: it's a war.
    Small battles help us to gain confidence and improve tactics and strategies.
    The safe repatriation of a few hundreds of people and their isolation is arguably a small battle for a big Western country.
    The USA and CDC are already on it:
    https://arstechnica.com/science/202...hly-400-americans-on-quarantined-cruise-ship/

    They are repatriating their less than 400 citizens on board of that ship. The linked article gives the details of the plan.
    Having a top notch institution like CDC which has plenty of experience of dealing with deadly virus help (more shame on the Chinese government for refusing their help)
     
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