Covid: Lucky 13

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/coronavirus-12-dont-abandon-hope.674257/

Lucky only because Omicron might produce herd immunity for us



prof robert clancy on infection and immunity

so getting covid does train the immune system more thoroughly than the vaccines



wrt delta the vaccines were inferior to natural immunity from earlier waves and didn't really improve upon a prior infection. So we coerced people into vaccines they didn't need.

True, but people still need baselines to assess risk. A 15 year old boy without comorbidities needs to know the mortality rate using his group as a baseline, not sick old people, he needs to know how many boys without known comorbidities died from covid.

I am very surprised to learn men in my age group dont actually die from covid that often, maybe 1 every other day in a population of millions. I still want to see how they fared and what % ended up staying in a hospital or on a ventilator ofc.

 

Should be titled coronavirus; the shortened name is just an attempt at memory-holing what it is.

Also that guy looks like Rudy Giuliani and the Menards guy had a baby together. Just sayin’ know’m sayin’?

 

I really can't understand why there are people still talking about herd immunity when it has become clear that immunity doesn't even last 6 months. People are already becoming reinfected with Omicron! Denmark and yes France seems to be getting into yet another wave.

@El_Machinae you might perhaps subscribe to this.

 

Omicron will infect enough people vaccine programs for the general population wont be an issue

 

Israeli Doc going off on the people in charge

ouch

 

Speaking as someone who's had Covid, and has had the vaccine, the vaccine doses seem to have helped with "long Covid" symptoms I've been displaying (for close to two years now). Nothing else has helped, exercise, healthy eating, sleeping (two kids under five, but as healthy as I can manage), etc, et al.

It would be neat if you could stop talking for people who have had Covid. Please stop using us as a prop in your ideological ranting against vaccine uptake.

 

I had not heard about that, but it seems to be a thing:

As many as 30 to 40% of those [with long covid] who get the vaccine have reported improvements to their symptoms.​

 

His whole claim is bollocks.

The vaccines were inferior to natural immunity but vaccines do improve upon a prior infection.

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...vaccination-during-delta-surge-us-2022-01-19/

 

Sars-CoV-2 spike protein activates human endogenous retroviruses in blood cells

Retrotransposons derive from human endogenous retrovirus (HERVs) but typically have lost their signature long terminal repeat sequences at the beginning and ends of their genes.

On Tuesday, a real zinger was dropped onto the medRxiv preprint server that could potentially explain many of the commonly observed pathogenic features of SARS-CoV-2. The authors provide solid evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein activates the envelope (ENV) protein encoded by HERV-W in blood cells, which is in turn directly responsible for many pathological features of the disease.

Researchers had previously observed a correlation in the expression of HERV-W ENV protein in T lymphocytes with severe respiratory distress in SARS-CoV-2 patients. However, the exact mechanisms involved were not clear. Now, the real culprit in HERV-W activation has been discovered. Researchers added a recombinant trimeric spike protein without stabilizing mutations to cultured peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) from SARS-CoV-2 patients. They found immediate and significant upregulation of the RNAs for the ENV protein from both HERV-W and HERV-K. Curiously, only the RNAs for HERV-W resulted in subsequent ENV protein expression.

A key finding in these studies is that not all COVID patients had significant HERV-W ENV activation; only 20 or 30 percent of them did. This finding likely reflects an underlying genetic susceptibility among the infected that absolutely needs to be defined and taken into account, particularly if HERV-W is going to be used as a general marker for disease severity, or as a therapeutic target for a humanized monoclonal antibody therapy, as is now envisioned. For example, activation of a soluble hexameric form of HERV-W was found in multiple sclerosis, and is earmarked as potentially druggable option.

But which HERV-W, exactly? Over 1 percent of our genomes are HERV-W remnants, more than all our protein-coding regions put together. In fact, there are at least 13 HERV-W loci with full-length ENV genes in the human genome. One of these, which hails from chromosome region 7q21.2, has an uninterrupted open reading frame for a complete HERV-W ENV protein. This protein, Syncytin-1, figures famously and essentially in normal placental development. To complicate things, MS now seems to have many eclectic potential origins. Researchers revealed this week, to considerable acclaim, that infection with Epstein-Barr virus is an important upstream, or downstream, or perhaps altogether independent trigger for MS.

In heart tissue samples from COVID-19 patients, HERV-W ENV was mainly found in endothelial cells from numerous small blood vessels and in the pericardial fatty tissue. The endothelial nature of HERV-W ENV positive cells was confirmed in this case with CD31 staining. Ominously, significant HERV-W ENV in patients was found in blood clots, nasal mucosa and also in the central nervous system, particularly in microglial cells, even when SARS-CoV-2 could not be detected in those tissues. The authors note that SARS-CoV-2 induced HERV-W ENV expression in human lymphoid cells, cells that neither express the canonical ACE2 receptor, nor the TMPRSS2 protease. This suggests other routes for the virus into these cells. One recent clue to other candidate mechanisms might come from alternative receptors like ASGR1, which is highly expressed in liver cells.
​

 

Are we still dishonestly equating anti-mandate to anti-vaccine?

 

Are we still dishonestly presenting anti-vaccine views in the context of Covid as merely being anti-mandate?

 

What about the governments and its advisers who proclaimed that vaccines would be the salvation and therefore there was no need to eliminate sars-cov2. We should instead "live with it". And so we've been dying with it as it continues wave after wave.

They are as pro-death as the other ones saying also that we must "live with it", the only difference is that the first offer a palliative in the vaccines, the later don't.

Both are death cults that embrace letting diseases run wild through the population, because stopping it would require a transfer of wealth downwards for a change.

They are not dying fast. Sars-cov2 still causes damage to blood vessels and organs.And that damage accumulates. And the virus can evolve for the worse. This is disaster in the making.

 

1) What's this about no need to eliminate the virus? That's the whole point of the vaccination programmes.
2) ‘Live with the virus’ doesn't mean we should live with it for all eternity. See The_J's post right above, assuming you can stand expert advice.

 

The powers that be coerced millions of covid survivors into vaccines they didn't want or need and you're upset with me for complaining. They dont need me speaking for them, thousands have been fired for refusing the vaccine. Front lines workers who already got covid were told to take the jab or take a hike.
I think thats a really shoddy thing to do to them and I'm happy to say so. I dont expect mandate supporters to agree, I expect them to get mad.

 

"people were fired" is not the same as "a vaccine they don't need". They're different arguments, to which people will respond differently.

Not that you said anything about folks getting fired in your opening post. That's something you've raised just now, as a brand-new set of goalposts (for this thread).

So, back to not needing the vaccine. The vaccines demonstrably improve a number of factors around Covid, even with the Omicron strain. Ergo, it is beneficial to. There is "a" need presuming your goal is to remain healthy, unless you've been misinformed or otherwise manipulated. "not getting ill" is advisable behaviour for most people under the age of retirement for work or education, and increasingly for people over the age of retirement due to their age.

Now, previously, you could claim that that's only relevant if you catch Covid. But your entire angle about vaccines and Omicron focus on how contagious it is (and it is). Which means the need for mitigating the severity of the virus and any subsequent side-effects is comparably higher. Which is what the vaccines help with. Factually. By the evidence.

And yes, I know, you only care about the lethality of any given strain and you don't give a hoot otherwise. If people are merely ill, or left with a hacking cough that persists for literally years, you ignore their existence completely. I know I'm not going to convince you of anything, or change your position one iota. And yet, your constant nonsense still needs challenging.

 

Was the delta version of covid worse than the original version, or was it not?