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CQUI caused right click not to work after todays patch.

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by trevpow, Feb 7, 2018.

  1. pgm123

    pgm123 Chieftain

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    I've tried CQUI. It's buggy and it's advantages are in small, specific places. I don't care much for the "Civ V"-style city screen or whatever they call it. For one, it doesn't work properly for me because I can't buy tiles three to the east or three to the west. And sometimes I can't build anything at all because only half the window opens. I disabled it and just got used to the default interface, which is fine. There are things I miss, of course. I like the better tacks because I don't play with the keyboard near me, so I'm not going to type specific reminders. I like knowing the correct time for my trade routes. I like knowing my resources. I like knowing information about AI science and culture. And so on. But there are specific things with the mod that I don't care about and rather play without. Civ VI's build, gold, faith interface is actually fairly elegant aesthetically.
     
    Quintus of Mund and Noble Zarkon like this.
  2. PendragonWRB

    PendragonWRB Chieftain Supporter

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    I have never experienced the bugs you described, and in fact the only minor glitch I see is the citizen highlights getting confused if you have them enabled when not in the city panel. It's easy to work around so it's not a big deal. All the extra information it provides I find critical. I just can't stand all the extra clicks required with the standard city screen so playing without it is torture to me. Maybe you had some other mod enabled that was interfering with it. It's the only mod I ever use.
     
  3. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    CQUI is great and most of what it does, if not all, should be in the base game. However, it doesn't do nearly what it potentially could to reduce unnecessary inputs in the game or present information properly. My impression was that the modders are limited by what the game allows mods to do.

    The UI got some patch notes this go around, but the game is still chalk-full of extra inputs, wrong-UI, and hidden rules. What would I prefer? A UI that can surpass well implemented games from before 1995. That's not a big ask right? Other games have done it routinely since than and right up until today. Why can't the Civ franchise? Even civ 4, the best UI presentation to date, has serious flaws in its UI (rules inconsistent with presentation, game thinking you're pressing buttons you're not" yet somehow is far and away the top entry when it comes to # inputs to accomplish basic tasks.

    CQUI only gives us a piece of that back. It really should be the devs doing so though.

    There's a reason that 60% doesn't come back. It varies for each player. Every game has some of that attrition. I'd be willing to put $$$ on a bet that at least a substantial chunk of the atypical early-abandoners in Civ 6 did so because of the learning curve. The UI is not helping there. How does war weariness work? I hope you're on CFC for Victoria to tell you, devs won't. Combat damage formula? Domestic tourism? Why you can't build a particular unit when you have the tech for it (this is inconsistent depending on unit)? Coupled with pacing issues from both UI and design you're going to lose people.

    Both of these were objective downgrades. In civ 4 you could do the same thing as civ 5, except you could also change builds (even for multiple cities simultaneously if so desired, and doing this from a view where you see all outputs at a glance makes sense) from that sortable ledger, and while you could queue identically to civ 5, you could also:

    1. Left click the city name
    2. Hold one of two buttons and add something to the top or bottom of queue

    Civ 5's weak UI already required several times the inputs to accomplish the same thing, and that compounded when wanting to do it with multiple cities. Very noticeable in vanilla before the ICS nerf.

    Not only that, in Civ 4 you could create templates for said queue on the fly, then press one input to make any newly captured city queue up culture thing/granary/forge/barracks or any other combination you like. Using that template in a new city would simply queue up whatever the new city didn't have in that order. Compare that to Civ 6, even with CQUI. A city that would do what you want + not bother you even once for 20+ turns will now instead prompt you at each completion in vanilla, or require several times the inputs even with CQUI!

    This isn't the only similar example, either. When I say that I could manage 50 cities in civ 4 faster than the fastest player in the would could handle 25 in civ 6, that isn't hyperbole. The UI advantage to the still-suboptimal civ 4 is just that large, and with civ 6's inconsistent input buffering the theoretical perfect speed player wouldn't stand a chance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  4. pgm123

    pgm123 Chieftain

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    I could try it with only that mod. The only ones I tend to use are "better Scythian names," "No Agenda Locked Leader," and "Historicity." I suspect it has to do with my tiny monitor. It's probably not optimized for the screen resolution. Either way, it is very annoying.
     
  5. Zaarin

    Zaarin My Dearest Doctor

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    Unlike some games, achievements work just fine in Civ6 offline.
     
  6. Brian LeClaire

    Brian LeClaire Chieftain

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    That percentage is pulled straight out of your ass lol. A lot of the user base doesn't even know what a mod is let alone how to install one or which one is good or bad so yeah I'd say that most of the user base is not using it most can mean 51%. I was about to say I'd like to see where you got that percentage but then I realized I already said it was out of your ass so I don't need to see that lol

    Moderator Action: Please do not troll the forums. leif
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2018
  7. Kwami

    Kwami Chieftain

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    If you look back a few posts, then you'll see some numbers. There are about 55k subscribers to CQUI and something like 2.6 million game owners, of which 600k or so played recently. So, less than 10% have CQUI.

    I, for one, don't like the vanilla UI or CQUI. They're both bad in too many ways. If I had to choose, then I'd go with the vanilla UI.

    Moderator Action: Please remember that you are responsible for everything in your post, including what you quote. leif
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2018
  8. Brian LeClaire

    Brian LeClaire Chieftain

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    Ahh good to know. I'll give him some slack then. Wasn't as straight out of his ass as I thought.

    Moderator Action: Please find a more civil expression than pulling it from... leif
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2018
  9. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Chieftain

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    So basically you're saying: CQUI features should have been in the base game. Devs should do their job, I can't play the game without CQUI. Fair enough. Personally I love CQUI, too. But your demands are just substanceless.

    CQUI features are not part of the original game, it's YOUR choice to play (or buy) the game without. CQUI is not working currently? Deal with it. Or put CiVI aside until it does. Simple, really. Hell, I myself have been there, done that!

    It's like exclusively playing TSL and complaining the map-mod isn't working anymore. It was not part of the base game, it's your risk if you buy it nevertheless and it's great, that modders are there helping us out!

    1995? C'mon, turn on your 486-emulator and check the UI out, that's just plain ranting. I'm not saying UI is an outstanding achievement of CiVI, it is very much improvable (as CQUI shows). But you can play with it. I'm sure Devs do stuff while at work. What do you think? :p
     
    Noble Zarkon likes this.
  10. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    I am saying the following:

    1. The vanilla UI is so pathetic that it can't meet the standards of pre-Beta Rimworld. Rimworld is a good game! However, it's hard to justify why a AAA title can't manage even a comparable pre-beta UI.
    2. CQUI makes the UI better, but is insufficient to make the game's UI actually good. I'm aware the modders' hands are tied in this regard.
    3. I have already provided evidence that a previous civ title handled multiple UI interactions strictly better (same information presented, much fewer inputs).
    4. Good games from over 20 years ago have also managed this. It's not a lost art; good UI has shown up in games every year since then too. Not in Civ 6 though.
    Civ 6 UI has not worked properly since release. It's had a substantial impact on my play time.

    No. The Warlords 2 UI is substantially better designed than Civ 6. Warlords 2 is pre-1995.

    Why is it better?
    • It does not obscure or hide gameplay rules to the point where forum posters are provably more reliable than the devs for game information.
    • It does not force several times the number of inputs compared to an alternative UI with the same information presented.
    • It does not utilize inconsistent input buffering (Good input buffering > no input buffering > inconsistent input buffering).
    • The information it presents is consistent with what happens in the game every time (no equivalent of broken right-click presentation --> something else happens)
    • Its equivalent of demographics is actually on par in utility (neither is particularly great in this regard)
    • The design has numerous hotkeys to speed up interaction with the game, in additions to waypoints. Civ 4 surpassed this, Civ 6 regressed behind it.
    The only thing Civ 6 has going for it in comparison is graphics. You otherwise need to navigate more inputs to do basic tasks, including simply interacting with a city.
     
    drubell likes this.
  11. Lord_Azazel

    Lord_Azazel Prime Swatter

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    Might be possible to disable the patching of the game though, or perhaps you can opt in on Beta, to load a previous version of the game in Steam.
     
  12. Karpius

    Karpius Chieftain

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    Thanks for the tip! But for now I will just wait it out until YNAMP is working with R&F.
     
  13. PendragonWRB

    PendragonWRB Chieftain Supporter

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    Can you explain this a little more? Is there an option to go back to version 176 or whatever was the pre-patch version?
     
  14. Athmos

    Athmos Chieftain

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    I understand the developers wish to have a incomplete AI (not busy, not cluttered), as many potential players are afraid of data, specially numbers. On the other hand, dedicated players need this data to be easily available, comparable, and manipulable. Given that it is done in a mod (great one, BTW), I can't for the life of me understand why Firaxis wouldn't just include a more complete interface as an optionally activated "advanced UI". I Mean, If can be independently developed, debugged and maintained for free, surely It wouldn't be a huge budget to do it in house, with all the native tools in hand, compared to the budget of such a game ?

    I mean, they would risk attaining their goal of "not frightening people new to strategy games" too much, and get the support and praise of the nerds as well.

    I mean, all these numbers and rules are there anyway, they are just hidden or made tedious to access, It doesn't make the game easier to play for newcomers, just less intimidating maybe.
     
  15. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam GiftOfNukes

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    If it were just a matter of worrying about over-presentation, I wouldn't be this critical.

    The problem is raw inputs and time used to access data. For any level of detail the developers choose, the UI should minimize the inputs required by the player to access it and play the game.

    Compare the city list screens and their usability in CIv 4 and Civ 6. These should be nearly identical in utility to players "afraid of data" (strange concept in a strategy title, but let's go with it). However, you can straight up do more and do it faster with Civ 4's. Same goes for the process of telling a city to make a building or unit. The ability to shift-queue 4 things does not add clutter, nor does access to hotkeys or better pathing optimization.
     
  16. Athmos

    Athmos Chieftain

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    I definitely agree with you there, while civ IV UI still had flaws and a few mechanisms were poorly documented, it was probably the best thought out of the whole franchise. However, It didn't start as good as it ultimately became, it received major patches, although I must confess I don't have clear memories of the original flaws right now.

    When I invented the "afraid of data" wording, I was just trying to acknowledge the fact that some people actually like UI without too much data, e.g. on this forum (where we are among dedicated players) there are many people who find some part of the current interface too cluttered or busy. already.
    So in a sense, Firaxis is doing something right by them when they split your city details in 4+ different panels that you can't access at the same time, and hide the actual numbers for science, gold, culture income from other civ in a mousever in the victory panel. Even if it drives me mad.

    Of course, you're right that the simple lack of feature of the interface (non-interactive reports, no possibly to sort or filter lists, no queuing) and its bug (numbers displayed but not refreshing, in many cases displaying a wrong and misleading value until the next turn) is even more irksome. Even more as it simply doesn't see much improvement in patches and expansions.

    I don't know.
    Maybe they're preparing us for an "advanced UI" DLC ? 4.99$ to see your current trade agreements ? Another 2.99$ to see the relation web between all players in a single screen ?
     
  17. bitula

    bitula Chieftain

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    My biggest concern with the vanilla UI is that lots of numeric indicators are not refreshed during user interaction with the game. They only show valid values at the beginning of the next turn. Is this fixed in CQUI?
     
    Quintus of Mund likes this.
  18. Brian LeClaire

    Brian LeClaire Chieftain

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    I don't think so, but I'm not sure.
     
  19. Mojo85

    Mojo85 Chieftain

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    My issue with CQUI other than the quirky production order bugs like having to flip flop the order to get something to start is that it can take away some of the management.

    For example a queue is great but limit it to 2-3 things because you can put almost an era on auto build and forget about that city, where’s the fun in that? I know some will say that’s a me problem and not a mod problem and in a lot of ways you’re correct but CQUI takes some of the game aspect out of the game.

    Also thI vanilla UI isn’t that awful, it does almost everything CQUI does just in a roundabout way
     
  20. Lord_Azazel

    Lord_Azazel Prime Swatter

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    Some steam games have the ability to load a previous patch of a game, I know I can do it with Factorio. Perhaps this is possible to do with civ as well. You can right click on the game in the steam library, open options or properties for the game. There should be a Tab called beta. Under it, there is a dropdown box where you might be able to choose a previous patch. I just know that this works on other games, and I'm not at home to check if civ6 can do this.
     

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