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Cracking the nut: City invasion

yellowsponge

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
13
its happened to all of us,

happily along we have taken up to a world domination and over the next hill is another city
except this one won't fall, no matter how much you attack

this forum was started so we could all get ideas on how to conquer that one city which seems impenetrable

any game references, esp. save games would be appreciated
 
bribe it :ninja:
 
Let's suppouse that there is a city with walls defended by veterans musketers. Let's also suppouse that your best attaking unit by that time is cavalry. Let's also suppouse that you don't have money to incite a revolt and the city is not near the coast. This is the worse case I can imagine.

My tactic is to send 5 or 6 diplomats to destroy the city walls and after that attack with veteran cavalry. There is an additional problem if the city is surrounded by hills. In that case if you place a diplomat on the hill he will not be able to move anymore and the AI will kill him. In this case there are two posibilities:

1) Make peace with your enemy, build a road over the hill to the AI city and then declare war again and attack.

2) Place a veteran musketer on the hill and fortify. If you see that he is able to resist for some turns you can try to build a fortress in the hill. With a fortress in the hill you can safely place as many units there as you want. Then destroy the city walls with diplomats and attack with veteran cavalry.
 
In a situation like this, the best thing to do is:
Conquer the rest of the world and leave it as your pet city while you're building a spaceship! :lol:
Otherwise you can either just wait until you have units sufficiently advanced to make mincemeat of the defenders or you have to be clever. (Damn! And I was doing so well being dumb)
Combined Arms is the tech for helicopters, but it's so much more than that! Stack units in groups of 4: a good defensive unit (vet musketeer?), a good attacking unit (cannon, artillery?), a dip (optional) and a settler or engineer). With this combo you can build a fortress in which to hide your men, either try to bribe the city or take out its walls, bombard the city and defend against counter attacks. When you combine all of these with bombardment from ships and/or planes then you will have an effective force. As Simon said, if this city is so obstinate that you require lots of troops, take twice as many as you think you'll need. It's the equivalent of the AI throwing troops at your fortresses, but because you are concentrating your attacks, it will be much more effective. :D
 
What you got here is a classic situation where proper planning prevent p1ss poor performance.
Firstly, find out what you are going up against. If this is late in the game, then it will be maybe 5 Mech Inf, 3 Alpine Troops, some Fighters (unlikely), and the inevitable Cruise Missile or two.
They will have city walls and SAM batteries as well.
Next, work out what you need for what purpose. Go for a one round kill if you can, and if you can move forces in on railroads. If that is not there, make the infrastructure.
In terms of Civ2, I subscribe to the Soviet military school of thought which is that sledgehammers were made and designed for cracking nuts.
If it is only one city, you can afford a lot of overkill.
Some dirty tricks are nice to kick it off, with sabotage of walls etc in order.
Then let loose the air force stealth bombers and battleships. Stealth Fighters also are of use. Airpower is the way to blast out the enemy.
Howitzers are of some use if you do not deploy airpower for some reason, but airpower is the answer to your problems.
Ground troops in Civ2 are only for holding ground that the more mobile forces have vacated the enemy from.

Planting a nuke is always an effective last resort.
 
I am very pleased at the response to this forum, it is informative and demonstrates a wide variety of thought.

In my opinoin, and probably everyone's, past mid game, Patton is right, the impenetrable fortress is one of the most useless items, and it doesn't really exist late game. The main focus of this forum was for the mid-game where the impenetrable fortess is a symbol of power, and practicle. The situation Jorge discribed was the one i happened to have recently. My solution was to destroy terrain improvements and destroy production until i developed appropriate technology to deal with the menace. Veteran artillery turned the once impervious Paris into my best conquest.

Does anyone think its useful, even possible to create the impenetrable fortress in the early game?
 
It all depends:

1) Ancient times: Diplomats to weaken and tons of catapults guarded by pikemen coming from 4 directions.

2) Middle ages: Cavalry with artillery and diplomats

3) Middle-Moderns: Armor and Bombers with spies

4) Modern: Howitzers with mech, inf. defense with spies from all directions

5) Ultra Modern: Complete missile(nuke if no SDI) attack until everything is dead and worthless, then I paradrop in or else move in a few mech inf divisions. If there is an SDI and a SAM then use multiple howitzers and/or sabatoge the SAM and continue with repeated missiles.

This is what I do, usually I have ahuge tech lead and there is no challenge though.
 
NUKE IT ! :goodjob: :nuke: :rocket2:
 
If it's mid-late game and they have about 14 democratic rifle men inside then surround the neighbouring countryside and take a peek over the walls. If you've done the job right then the following turn they should only have one defender.(depends if you are near any whales). Then you can just keep pounding with a few cannons/ artilery until it dies.. This way the population won't fall too much.
 
Originally posted by gonzo_for_civ
waar kan ek die salade vind?
(where can i find a salad bar?) in Zimbabwean
Ahem, just an aside...

Your signature line is actually in Afrikaans, the Dutch-derived language spoken by the whites in southern Africa. But it is translated accurately.

In Zimbabwe they speak Shona - I have friend who is obsessed with Zimbabwe, and actually speaks it. I could get you the actual quote if you'd like! :D

Back on topic, you forget era 1.5 - musketeers and cannon! There is a fairly long period in which these are the strongest land units.
 
Definitely a pet city, but if you really have your heart set on it (it has a wonder, etc.), veteran howitzers are simply invincible as long as you have Mech. Inf.'s under them to defend between turns.
 
Who cares about pet cities or units in the city.
NUKE IT!!! :nuke: :nuke: :rocket: :rocket3: :rocket2:
 
Plan a: If you can, bribe it, do so. This gives you a whole city.

Plan B: If the city is a democracy or republic, then it will usually need some shields to support it's garrison. Surround the city and put a unit on every shield producing square. The next turn, you will find only one defender which should be easy to take with the surrounding troops.
PLan c: Brute force.I will build a fortress next to the city and move some defenders, and much vet cannon, artillery, etc into it. You will lose some, but the city will fall. Do not attack until you know you have enough firepower to take the city. Any defender left will likely be back at full strength the next turn.

I don't attack city walls, it is too hard to do with dips and spies. Also, the city loses population for each defender lost without walls, leaving you with little left.
 
Originally posted by geofelt

Plan B: If the city is a democracy or republic, then it will usually need some shields to support it's garrison. Surround the city and put a unit on every shield producing square. The next turn, you will find only one defender which should be easy to take with the surrounding troops.

Hey, I like this! I think I'll try that..


PLan c: Brute force.I will build a fortress next to the city and move some defenders, and much vet cannon, artillery, etc into it. You will lose some, but the city will fall. Do not attack until you know you have enough firepower to take the city. Any defender left will likely be back at full strength the next turn.

I don't attack city walls, it is too hard to do with dips and spies. Also, the city loses population for each defender lost without walls, leaving you with little left.

Hmm.. I think building the fortress yourself is kind of hard at war, though. Or at peace, as they'll tell you to withdraw it. Sabotage is a big no-no. Simply pound the seven shades of doo-dah out of them. Or you could lob a big fat Nuclear Missile..:nuke: :goodjob: :lol:
 
I agree with most of the above posts:

Go around; use Dips, Spies; Deny the support (stand on the shield producing spaces (which also reduces the partisan effect in the end game).

But if the city MUST be taken, usually, the choices are:
1) rapid assault (use a two move piece -- horse, elephant, etc.) or

2) entrenched defense with a powerful offense (fortified phalanx on a tree with a catapult).

(In the very late game a vet howitzer on rails can forego the requied defensive unit.)

Key tactical questions apply -- a) defensive terrain -- is the city on a river? Most of the AI locations are plains or grass -- so this complicates the issue. b) if there are walls, there is probably a barraks & vet defensive units as well. c) How soon to the next appropriate tech? moving up from cannon/cavalry to artillary is BIG (each shot does double damage -- so the arty unit is more offensive than a tank (per shot).

So in the mid game, an vet alpine/vet arty combo looks a lot like the phalanx/ catapult of the early years...:cool:
 
I was partial to the choke off the shields tactic until I met my first large fundy in deity. I was dissapointed when this no longer worked ( I also watched the AI boot off that wave of attackers with an actual, effective counter attack, ouch). The painful defeat made me realise the tough nuts require one major thing, planning (unless I nuke it and paratroop in if it's an emergency).

1. Do you really need to take that city? If it's a capital, has a wonder you want, or producing battlewagons, probably yes. If not, wait. Reduce their empire first. One of the most important things to manuever warfare is to avoid getting bogged down at strong points. If you take away the weak stuff first, you will eventually beat them. This game is a zero sum type, what you have, he doesn't.

2. Will taking it leave you overextended? then put off taking that city, grab one or two surrounding cities and isolate it so the computer can't reinforce it. Next, tear it apart with diplos (remove factories, harbors, or any strategic items and units in production first. The walls will cost you a few spies or diplo's), remove irrigation, maybe cut a road (we're assuming this is a VERY tough city, and you don't want to nuke it due to pollution concerns).

3 Don't have enough units now? Put a fighter (for defence against their counter strike) and a couple of bombers in a nearby city, send them over on sorties every turn. If the city is isolated , and you kill off two or more units a turn, it will eventually be overwhelmed. You'll probably lose some bombers, so it is good to ensure they don't have any cities within 10 squares to launch fighters. Maybe you can build a nearby port city with a settler. This will allow you to land troops without any movement penalty. If your on a rail spike, artillery and infantry are good immediately. Just make sure you can hold that city.

4 Don't forget to have a reserve. If your units get stuck just short of their goal, your going to need a cover force, use bomber shielding or a naval landing just behind the city, or some sort of bait units (partisans are great for this, sneak them behind and cut off the couter strike).

5 A lot of units !!! This idea will seem weird to the democrats out there, but you can't take a city with 12 defenders if you only have 5 attackers. Deal with the unhappiness and inefficiency or switch to commie of fundy.

6 Do you NEED that city NOW? (ie he has a space ship, building manhatten, etc...) Well, get ready to lose some units. Look at his income to see if the capital will move (at least 1000 gold), and plan to have to take that city with your standing forces. This is why I've become a big proponnent of guarding my cities with mibile units. rather than have a passive force which can survive an attack, I spend a similar amount of shields to have a counter attack force which cost me the same in maintanance as riflemen, etc.. With this force, you load up on your transports go there see whats in the city with a spy (I can't stress that enough) and go at it while you build as much as you can. This is one time when cruise missile are actually useful. One hit, one kill. (of course howies can be 2 hits, 2 kills. But tht's another post).

7 Notice that these apply mostly for the cavalry/cruiser or better time period. Before that you can almost always put off taking a city. You can expand elsewhere rather than attacking that mountain city.
 
Take their other cities first, to reduce or eliminate backup. Sun Tzu said in "The Art of War," to attack the enemy where he is weak, and avoid him where he is strong. A single city really isn't worth taking if it has no strategic value, and even if it does, you can probably go without it. Blockade the city, and focus those other units on rivals that can still hurt you.
 
Bypass it, or take it. When the city is too hard to take and there are other potential target around, just skip it. Sever the roads connecting this city to the enemy at a hill or mountain or other rough terrain, this sets up a kill zone if the city units attacks. Just don't accidentally cut off your supply lines in the process, I can consider nothing more embarrasing. You can also pillage certain parts of the city radii and reduce the city's resources if you have the time, works best when you sabotage the city improvement as well, do this if you intend to leave the city alone for a long time or as a pet city. Very effective again the perfectionist civs as they will send settlers and build improvement for dozens of turns to repair the damage.

If you want to take the city, just make sure you have sufficent numbers and firepower and overwhelm the city with a sudden attack. No strategy there, just send in the strongest attackers first and try to sabotage the city walls. If you can't hit it by land, see if you can hit it by sea or air first to soften them up. I only use the "bash my head against city walls" approach above when I can't bribe it, or sabotage the walls. Of cource, after howitzers, things get much easier and less messier.
 
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