Crazy Trading with other CIVS

[tstowe]

Last night I was ahead on the tech scene and after getting some three or four techs ahead I began selling the older techs to the other CIVS. Most were more than happy to give 50-100 money up front, plus xx money per turn for the techs. Standard right? Well, the Japanese trully shocked me last night when I offered him Metallurgy (or one of the techs around metallurgy) he offered the money up front and per turn and a lower tech that I had skipped. The interesting part about this trade was that he had a Japanese Worker showing on his list and I selected him as part of the trade - and he agreed! That was a first for me. Not to mention that the Japanese worker didn't cost me any upkeep.


Basically, I just wanted to share this with you all and to see if you had any such "crazy" trading.

have a good one.

 

[Bamspeedy]

The interesting part about this trade was that he had a Japanese Worker showing on his list and I selected him as part of the trade - and he agreed! That was a first for me. Not to mention that the Japanese worker didn't cost me any upkeep.

Yep, if you have a worker in your capital, you can sell it (standard price is about 30 gold). I usually check with the AI early in the game often to see if they have workers for sale, because since there is no upkeep costs it more than pays for it as the game goes on.

edit:typo

 

[Greadius]

Tisk, tisk, dealing in slavery.

Enemy workers are great. You can just shift-a and forget about them. They work slowly but can't beat the price.

I've had the enemy give me 3 of their 4 remaining cities in a peace treaty. I've gotten 100 gold per round for resources (Iron I believe).

Trading is a great way to get ahead... unfortunately you get dependant on it. I get about 1/4 of my income from other Civs, about 500 gold per turn. My economy is trade-dependant.

 

[Beamup]

In all the games I've yet played, on up to Regent difficulty, I've never been able to get any decent trades out of the AI at all. For example, in my last game (was going pretty well until I found out that every last square of coal on the map was in the middle of Russian territory), during the ancient era, Persia was fighting a two-front war against the Russians and the English. They had Iron Working, but no iron, while I had two. They were polite towards me and my rep was unblemished, so I figured I should be able to make them pay through the nose for some iron, since presumably they'd like to build Immortals. So, I contact Xerxes and offer the iron - first I asked what he cared to offer. He cared to offer 50 gold (out of a treasury of 400, he also had spares of three different luxuries). I wasn't about to take that, so I started picking my own deal. To make a long story short, he wouldn't give me even one luxury, and the most gold I could get out of him was 75 lump sum (interestingly, he wouldn't pay me 1/turn instead of the 75).

Anyway, since that sort of thing is way more common than decent trades in my games, I thought maybe somebody could suggest what's going wrong.

BTW, this may be related - at one point in one game, I figured I'd hold UN elections. The game was down to three civs - me (Persians), the Russians, and the English. The other obvious candidate was the Russians, and they had been at war with my allies the English (and me) for ~300 years. The English were gracious to me, and since I could never get any decent trades for my luxuries/maps/etc, I eventually took to just giving them away to the English. Accordingly, I figured I was set. Well, guess who Lizzy voted for? Catherine, of course. WTF was going on THERE?!?! Is the AI just programmed for "everybody hate the human no matter what"?

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by tstowe
. . .Basically, I just wanted to share this with you all and to see if you had any such "crazy" trading.

I've been referring to the Civ III AI as "crazy" for weeks. :crazyeyes

 

[Ironikinit]

Diplomatic victories do seem chancy, but I know they can be won, and they cut the game short. I don't holding elections in games where there's only a few civs left, personally. Your result really was odd.

Some civs just don't make much money and will never be able to pay up for luxuries and techs. Some are cheapskates by nature, IMO Russia is a good example. Catherine rarely wants to pay much for techs.

 

[Greadius]

Yeah, sometimes the AI will be really cheap with their offers for your luxuries and stingy with theirs. It usually depends on the wealth of the empire.

In the Xerxes probably was making negative gold a turn so he couldn't offer you any gold per turn.
Also, if you were offering luxuries or resources which several other empires can have they can be pretty cheap about it. How much they like you is the biggest factor I've noticed. Gracious empires will literally shoot themselves in the financial foot to buy your excess goods.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

the good thing is that the AI will also pay around 30 gold for it`s own workers. So when I have razed a few of his cities and plan to go to war aginst him again I`ll sell him all his workers back - makes a huge dent in his pocket, costs him upkeep, and I get them back a few turns later anyway

 

[tstowe]

Originally posted by Killer
the good thing is that the AI will also pay around 30 gold for it`s own workers. So when I have razed a few of his cities and plan to go to war aginst him again I`ll sell him all his workers back - makes a huge dent in his pocket, costs him upkeep, and I get them back a few turns later anyway

Now that is creative. I hadn't thought of that yet.

 

[tstowe]

Trading for me has been quite successful in the game. As for BeamUp. . .The only time I have had difficulty getting any kind of decent trade was when I was behind the power curve or they were already researching the specific tech that I offered, or they are already in line to get the resource from someone else.

In my current game there are seven civs (including me). Five of the seven civs (me, Japan, France, Rome, and England) are all on one continent while the Persians are on a large island to themselves and India on another island by itself. The date is roughly 1900 and for the past ~200 years I have had my research up to 100% and still maintaining a positive growing bank account because of my trading. I am practically the smallest civ on my continent but my research and military units have been ahead of everyone else.

 

[CrazyScientist]

All in all I love the trading system, but the AI does seem to make some strange deals, especially when luxuries are concerned.
I was trading a tech to egypt once, and Cleo decided she'd rather pay over 200 gold per turn plus most of her treasury than give up one of her six extra silks.
Not only do they overvalue their own luxuries, but they undervalue yours. In the same game as above I was negotiating a deal with someone or other.... I had a bunch of stuff on the table and my advisor said we were "getting close to a deal here"
I tried thowing in some Incense (I had 3 extra) to sweeten the pot, and all of a sudden they "would be insulted by this deal". I had made no other changes on either side of the table, so I guess they just really hated Incense.

 

[tstowe]

The AI trading is scatter brained at best. For whatever reason the AI considers Silk and Incense to be major luxuries.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by DamnCommie

they just really hated Incense.

if incesne was the only thing that you offered "per turn" then it was probably the "per turn" that insulted them. means: they don`t trust you.

Strangely, you can use that to determine if someone is going to come for you soon. just offer something ridiculously good per turn for Worldmap - if the AI has decided to fight you, i.e. is amassing troop already, he will be insulted. Otherwise the advisor willl probably say it`s OK.

 

[sealman]

On the tade market, do the luxuries have any value to them? i.e. are gems worth more than silk?

I am at the point in all of my games that I do not even bother trading for luxuries. I have yet to get a deal that I could live with. The AI always wants every one of my advanced techs for something.

In my current game I offered England Silk for Incense. Straight up the two of us have been allies since the start. they would not go for it so I asked what she would give me for Silk, 6 Gold pet turn. I took the offer and then asked what she wanted for Incense: 3 Techs, 300 Gold and 10 per turn!

I have learned to get my resources in one of two ways, take them by conquest or make them part of peace treaty or MPP.


Maybe I'll make a special unit with unknown nationality, run into enemy lands and capture a worker and sell it back for resources.

 

[Mozenwrath]

Hmmmm, I like the trading system and it's always part of my strategy to trade, however, I would agree that the AI can be unfair. How come any luxury or resource they have is "fine" while yours are just ordinary? Consequently, they usualy want at least 2 for 1 trades. I.E. In my current game, I am way ahead and the English still wanted incense, silk and 17 gold per turn for gems (3 extra) What's up with that?!

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

someone made the very smart observation that luxuries have a worth gained from how many happy faces they generate. That means you will have to pay through you nose to get that eighth lux, especially when you have more towns than the other guy.


but somehow it seems higher levels have an inbuilt unwillingness to trade with the human player.....