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Create a good vanilla line-up for Civilization

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Vahnstad, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. Vahnstad

    Vahnstad King

    Sep 2, 2014
    Low countries
    I've never done this for civ vi, and since the current vanilla line-up was criticized, let's see if i can do better. My 25 civs.

    America (George Washington)
    Aztec (Montezuma)
    China (Yongle)
    Cuba (Fidel Castro)
    Egypt (Hatshepsut)
    England (Elizabeth II)
    Franks (Charlemagne)
    French Empire (Napoleon I)
    Germany (Otto Von Bismarck)
    Greece (Pericles)
    Inca (Huayna Capac)
    India (Ashoka)
    Japan (Toyotomi Hideyoshi)
    Korea (Seondeok)
    Macedon (Alexander The Great)
    Mongolia (Genghis Khan)
    Mughals (Akbar)
    Ottomans (Suleiman I)
    Persia (Xerxes i)
    Rome (Marcus Aurelius)
    Russia (Peter The Great)
    Soviets (Vladimir Lenin)
    Spain (Isabella II)
    Taimo (Anacaona)
    Zimbabwe (Nyatsimba Mutota)

    Russian civil war
    Spanish colonization of the New World (Aztec, Inca, Taimo and Spain)
    Alexander conquests
    Formation of the Tokugawa shogunate
    American independence war
    Mughal conquests

    Pre-order bonus: Spain (isabella II) and Inca (Huayna Capac) + scenario

    DLC 1: Denmark
    DLC 2: Vietnam
    DLC 3: Assyria
    DLC 4: Poland
    -> first expansion with Netherlands, Brazil, Maya, Indonesia, Mali, Zulu, Gauls, Sweden and Babylon
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
    Lord of War N02 and Xandinho like this.
  2. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

    May 14, 2016
    Terok Nor
    There were 18 civs + a pre-order bonus in vanilla Civ6, so I went with that. It's still Europe-heavy, but not nearly as Europe-heavy as vanilla Civ6. I kept quite a few of the dev's interesting leader choices, but I changed some of them as well. I also had the gall to cut all three of Civ's mascots (Gandhi, Alexander, Montezuma); I make no apologies. :p

    America (Calvin Coolidge)
    England (Elizabeth I)
    France (Louis XIV)
    Germany (Frederick Barbarossa)
    Greece (Pericles)
    Rome (Trajan)
    Russia (Catherine the Great)

    Egypt (Hatshepsut)
    Ethiopia (Zar'a Ya'qob)

    Arabia (Harun al-Rashid)
    Persia (Cyrus II + Shappur II)
    Sumer (Gudea)

    China (Taizong)
    India (Shah Jehan)
    Japan (Hojo Tokimune)
    Khmer (Jayavarman VII)
    Mongolia (Kublai Khan)

    Powhatan (Powhatan)
    Maya (Lady Six Sky)


    Spain (Philip II) as a pre-order bonus.
    Jkchart and Vahnstad like this.
  3. Vahnstad

    Vahnstad King

    Sep 2, 2014
    Low countries
    18 civs + 1 pre-order bonus, but 1 one of the civs had two leaders. Mine would have 19 civs + 2 pre-orders and 4 alternate leaders :p, however you can argue that they would be different civs, but the Sparta / Athens + Macedon mechanic is still very confusing.
    Zaarin likes this.
  4. Xandinho

    Xandinho Emperor

    Feb 11, 2013
    This is a good mental exercise

    What I would like to have in Vanilla and the DLCs with their respective leaders:


    1. Greece (Pericles and Alexander)
    2. Rome (Augustus Caesar and Trajano)
    2. Egypt (Ramesses II and Hatchepsut)
    3. China (Qin Shi Huang and Wu Zetian)
    4. France (Louis XIV)
    5. England (Elizabeth I)
    6. India (Akbar)
    7. Persia (Cyrus)
    8. America (George Washington)
    9. Russia (Catherine)
    10. Germany (Otto von Bismarck)
    11. Incas (Pachacuti)
    12. Mayas (Pacal the great)
    13. Japan (Hojo Tokimune)
    14. Arabia (Harun al-Rashid)
    15. Ethiopia (Menelik II)
    16. Mongolia (Genghis Khan)
    17. Babylon (Nabucodonosor II)
    18. Khmer (Jayavarman VII)


    DLC 1. Maori (pre-order. Hongi Hika) - with Nan Madol world wonder and Piopiotahi natural wonder
    DLC 2. Spain (Isabella) and Aztecs (Montezuma) - with Huey teocalli world wonder
    DLC 3. Mali (Mansa Musa) - with Great Mosque of Djenné world wonder
    DLC 4. Brazil (Pedro II) - with Estádio do Maracanã world wonder and Pantanal natural wonder
    DLC 5. Leaders package: Napoleon Bonaparte (France), Victoria (England) and Abraham Lincoln (America)
    DLC 6. Viking Nation: Norway (Harald Hardrada) or Denmark (Harald Bluetooth) - with Lysefjord natural wonder
    DLC 7. Iroquois (Hiawatha)
    DLC 8. Package of ancient wonders: Statue of Zeus, Temple of Artemis, Mausoleum at Halicarnassus, Palace of Knossos and Abu Simbel
    DLC 9. Indonesia (Gajah Mada) - with Borobudur world wonder and Krakatoa natural wonder
    DLC 10. Sumer (Eannatum)
    DLC 11. Ottomans (Suleiman)
    DLC 12. Leaders package: Abbas I (Persia), Ashoka (India) and Hammurabi (Babylon)
    DLC 13. Netherlands (Guilherme de Orange) and Portugal (Maria II) - with Torre de Belém and Oost-Indisch Huis world wonders

    Maybe later I'll do what would be the ideal expansions for me
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  5. Phrozen

    Phrozen King

    May 7, 2012
    N. America
    America (Dwight D. Eisenhower)
    Aztec (Ahuizotl)
    Maya (Lady K'abel)

    S. America
    Inca (Pachacuti)

    Egypt (Djoser)
    Ethiopia (Menelik II)

    Turks (Ataturk)
    Akkadians (Sargon)
    Babylon (Hammurabi)
    Persia (Darius I)
    India (Akbar, Raja Raja Chola)
    China (Kangxi)
    Japan (Okubo Toshimichi)
    Mongolia (Genghis Khan)
    Arabia (Abd al-Malik)

    England (Henry II)
    France (Phillip II Augustus)
    Germany (Bismarck)
    Rome (Claudius)
    Greece (Pericles)

    Pre - Order:
    Russia (Peter)
    Sweden (Charles XII)
    Great Northern War scenario
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  6. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

    May 14, 2016
    Terok Nor
    ...Don't you think including Proto-Babylon and Old Babylon in the base game would be a little redundant? :p I'm all for overstocking the Ancient Near East, but honestly Sargon and Hammurabi could be alternate leaders for the same civ.
  7. Phrozen

    Phrozen King

    May 7, 2012
    I guess but what would you call it? I mean Hammurabi is of course focused on civics and internal administration and Sargon would be focused on very early conquest.
  8. IgorS

    IgorS Your ad could be here!

    Sep 28, 2008
    A vanilla lineup for Civilization should have the most basic civs, representing as many parts of the world as possible, but also focusing on the most important civs and series mainstays.
    So I would make a vanilla game with the original 14, plus 6 more important civs, each with two leaders.

    So, the original 14 are:
    Americans - Washington and Teddy Roosevelt
    English - Æthelstan and Elizabeth
    Egyptians - Hatshepsut and Ramesses (II)
    Greeks - Pericles and Alexander
    Chinese - Wu Zetian and Kangxi
    Romans - Augustus and Marcus Aurelius
    French - Louis (XIV) and Napoleon
    Indians - Asoka and Nehru
    Babylonians - Hammurabi and Nebuchadnezzar (II)
    Aztecs - Nezahualcoyotl and Montezuma (I)
    Russians - Ivan (III) and Catherine (II)
    Mongols - Genghis Khan and Kublai Khan
    Germans - Otto (I) and Bismarck
    Zulu - Shaka and Cetshwayo

    Of those 14 only the Zulu are kind of less important, but they were in Civ I, so they are a must.

    Now, six are left to pick to get 20. Here are the ones I'd go for:
    Japanese - Hojo Tokimune and Ito Hirobumi
    Persians - Darius (I) and Khosrow (I)
    Spanish - Isabella and Charles (III)
    Arabs - Abd al-Malik and Harun al-Rashid
    Inca - Pachacuti and Huayna Capac
    Ethiopians - Lalibela and Menelik (II)
    Lord of War N02 likes this.
  9. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

    May 14, 2016
    Terok Nor
    Babylon. True, Sargon wasn't strictly speaking Babylonian, but Babylon grew out of Akkad and spoke Akkadian. Though personally for less overlap I'd go with Hammurabi (Old Babylon) and a Neo-Babylonian emperor (Neby's fine, or Nabonassar would be someone new). Throw in an Assyrian like Tiglath-Pilesar III for completeness. ;)
  10. AnonymousSpeed

    AnonymousSpeed Pink Plastic Army Man

    Nov 21, 2014
    Technically, Civilization has had both Montezuma I and Montezuma II and never both at the same time. However, you're still a monster.
    As are the rest of you.

    A little less so in your case.

    It is nice that this has been brought up though. It's a good time to unveil and discuss the civ selection in my "Civilization 7 Concept" project.

    Civ5 focused on leaders who are considered 'Da Best.' Civ6 focuses on leaders with unique personalities or actions, or a sort of historical celebrity status. Civ7, as designed by me, focuses on leader who were historical rivals or contemporaries.

    Oh yeah and it's pretty euro-centric. What a surprise.

    Europe (9 Civs):
    North Sea Empire lead by Cnut the Great (Ribe)
    • Look, we know there's got to be a viking civilization. I like the idea of a viking civilization. However, I don't like using the names of modern nations which associate it with post-Christianization Scandinavia and more traditional European monarchies. I want a slightly less anachronistic Odin-worshiping raider heathen. So, I chose Cnut the Great of the short lived but rather influential North Sea Empire. While Cnut was still Catholic, we was at least more of a fan of the old Norse pagan traditions than Harald Hardrada was.
    Holy Roman Empire under Charlemagne (Aachen) <- Could cut this for later DLC/Expansion Pack, probably should, but I like the idea of his being a contemporary of Arabia's leader.
    France under Henry IV (Paris)
    Germany under Frederick the Great (Berlin)- Frederick would increase Germany's Great Person generation, and Germany would have innate bonuses towards its industrial capabilities, making a very flexible civ.
    England under Elizabeth I (London)
    Spain under Phillip II (Madrid)
    Russia under Ivan the Terrible (Moscow)
    Greece under Pericles (Athens) and Lysander (Sparta)
    • Lysander is a bit of a weird choice, being an admiral and not a monarch or proper head of state. However, he was a very successful Spartan who had a large hand in their victory in the Peloponnesian War. Since these leader choices are supposed to reflect rivalries, I figured it was a functional choice, especially since Lysander was very influential in the post-war years. Agesilaus II would be a possible replacement choice.
    Rome under ??? (Rome)- Saving Julius Caesar for the Caesar-Vercingetorix DLC

    Asia, including the Middle East and India (6 Civilizations):
    Arabia under Huran Al-Rashid (Baghdad)- Has bonuses similar to Frederick's Germany in reward, but with a religious twist. Could be replaced with As-Saffah for a Battle of Talas themed rivalry with China.
    Persia under Cyrus the Great (Pasargadae)- Could be replaced with Xerxes to further rivalry with Greece
    India under Gandhi (Delhi) and Ashoka (Pataliputra)
    • Now I can keep my nukes, and the rest of you can keep your heresy more serious depictions of Indian leaders.
    China under Taizong of Tang (Xi'an)- Could be replaced by Xuanzong for a Battle of Talas themed rivalry with Arabia.
    Japan under Oda Nobunaga (Kyoto)
    Mongolia under Ogedei Khan (Karakorum) <- Pre-order bonus, free for everyone on Christmas

    Africa (2 Civilizations):
    Egypt under Hatshepsut (Thebes)
    Kongo under Mvemba a Nzinga (M'banza Kongo)- This could be replaced altogether if I get a good Rozvi leader.

    North America (2 Civilizations):
    The United States of America under Abraham Lincoln (Washington, D.C)- Honestly not really set on any particular leader choice, maybe could bring back the FDR-Churchill-Stalin trifecta instead.
    The Aztec under Montezuma I (Tenochtitlan)

    South America (1 Civilization):
    The Inca under Huayana Capac (Cuzco)

    Some city states until a later piece of DLC or expansion pack.
    Zaarin likes this.
  11. Vahnstad

    Vahnstad King

    Sep 2, 2014
    Low countries
    I would have included Gandhi in a later expansion.
  12. dagriggstar

    dagriggstar Prince

    Mar 23, 2006
    Adelaide, Australia
    It's a vanilla line up, I feel like it's okay ish to include the first DLC, since that is effectively part of the original lineup. Other than that, I have tried to balance across space (representing different cultures) and time (representing different time periods, so we don't end up with heaps of early UU's and hardly any later ones, for instance).

    Europe Rome, France, England, Germany, Russia
    East Asia China, Japan, India, Mongols, Siam
    Middle-East Babylon, Persia, Arabia, Ottomans
    America + Africa Egypt, Mali, Inca, Brazil, USA

    Ancient Rome, India, Babylon, Persia, Egypt
    Medieval China, Mongols, Arabia, Mali, Inca
    Industrial France, England, Siam, Ottomans
    Modern Russia, Japan, Brazil, USA, Germany
    AnonymousSpeed likes this.
  13. Lord of War N02

    Lord of War N02 Lord of Southeast Asia

    Apr 17, 2010
    Somewhere on Earth
    Here my list for Vanilla line up, since I do not like current vanilla line up for CIV 6,
    This time I will do put three leaders as I like to design civ with three leaders for representation of each different eras and kingdoms

    I will have 22 based civs for vanilla

    Arabia (Umar, Abd al-Malik and Hussein bin Ali, Sharif of Mecca ), Rashidun, Ummayad and Modern Arabia
    Aztec (Itzcoatl, Nezahualcoyotl Montezuma) Early Aztecs, Texocco and Late Aztecs
    Babylon (Hammurabi, Meli-Shipak II and Nabopolassar) First Dynasty, Third Dynasty and Neo Babylonian Empire
    China (Han Wudi, Qianlong and Sun Yat Sen) Ancient China, Qing China and post Imperial China
    English (Alfred the Great, Richard I and Victoria) Anglo Saxon England, Medieval England and Victorian Britain
    Ethiopia (Ezana, Dawit II and Haile Selassie) Aksum era, Medieval Ethiopia and Modern Ethiopia
    Egypt (Khufu, Rameses II and Cleopatra) Old Kingdom, New Kingdom and Ptolemaic Egypt
    France (Clovis, Louis XIV and Clemenceau) Frankish Kingdom, Kingdom of France and Republican France
    Germany (Arminius, Louis IV, Holy Roman Empire and Otto von Bismarck) Ancient German, Holy Roman Empire and Imperial Germany
    Greece (Leonidas, Perciles and Alexander the Great), yes, Macedon should merge with Greece. Sparta, Athens and Macedon
    Inca (Manco Capac, Pachacuti and Manco Inca Yupanqui) Cuzco, Imperial Inca and Post Imperial Inca
    Indian (Asoka, Akbar and Shivaji) Ancient India - Buddhist Emperor, Renaissance India - Muslim Mughal Emperor and Industrial - Hindu Maratha Emperor
    Japan (Jingu, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Ito Harubumi) Ancient Japan, Sengoku Japan and Modern Japan
    Mali (Sundiata Keita, Mansa Musa and ?)
    Mongolia (Genghis Khan, Mandukhai and Damdin Sukhbaatar) Mongol Empire, Post Imperial Mongolia and Modern Mongolia
    Persia (Darius I, Khosrau I and Nader Shah) Achaemenid Persia, Sassanid Persia and Islamic Persia
    Rome (Lucius Brutus, Augustus Caesar and Constantine I) Republican Rome, Imperial Rome and Christian Rome
    Russia (Vladimir the Great, Ivan IV and Catherine II) Kievan Rus, Tsardom of Moscow and Imperial Russia
    Siam ( Ramkhamhaeng, Naresuan and Phibunsongkhram) Sukhothai, Ayutthaya and Modern Thailand
    Spain (Pelagius of Asturias, Isabella and Charles III) Asturias, quasi unified Spain (Castile personal union with Aragon), Enlightment Spain
    Turkey (Alp Arslan, Mehmed II and Ataturk) Seljuk Turks, Ottoman Turkey and Modern Turkey
    Zulu (Shaka, Ceteshwayo and ?)

    DLC bonus: America (Washington, Lincoln and Kennedy) + Iroquois (Hiawatha, Canaqueese and Joseph Brant) Scenario: American Revolutionary War

    1st DLC: Maya (Pacal II, Lady Xoc and ?) Scenario: Mesoamerica
    2nd DLC: Vietnam (Trung Sisters, Le Loi and Gia Long), Ancient Vietnam, Medieval Vietnam and Early Modern Vietnam + Korea (Seondok, Wang Kon and Sejong), Silla, Goryeo and Joseon Scenario: Ancient East Asia scenario
    3rd DLC: Kongo (Lukeni lua Nimi Mvemba a Nzinga and Garcia II of Kongo) + Portugal (Afonso I, John II and Maria II)
    4th DLC: Sioux (Old Chief Smoke, Sitting Bulls and Crazy Horse) Scenario: Sioux Wars
    5th DLC: Hittites (Suppiluliumas I, Muwatalli II and ?) Scenario: Battle of Kadesh
    6th DLC: Nubia (Piye, Amanishakheto and Merkurios of Makuria ) Napata Nubia, Meroe Nubia and Christian Nubia

    Total (Based + DLC): 22 bases + 2 DLC bonus + 8 civs dlc = 32
    European civs: 8
    American civs: 6
    Asian civs: 7
    Middle Eastern civs: 5
    African civs: 6
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
    AbsintheRed likes this.
  14. Gabriel Sergio

    Gabriel Sergio Warlord

    Jul 30, 2016
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    So here's come a thought, 25 civs that might alarm you :
    America (Thomas Jefferson)
    England (George III)
    Obviously those two choices not because Hamilton, Anyway next

    France (Joan of Arc)
    Germany (Bismarck)
    Spain (Isabella)
    Rome (Scipio Africanus)
    Russia (Alexander Nevsky)
    Egypt (Ramses II)
    Japan (Toyotomi Hideyoshi)
    India (Asoka)
    Greece (Phyrrus of Epirus)
    Arabia (Muawiyah)
    Ottoman (Mehmed II)
    Mongol (Genghis Khan)
    Inca (Huayna Capac)
    Aztec (Montezuma)
    Ethiopia (Menelik II)
    Mali (Mansa Musa)
    Zulu (Cetshwayo)
    Carthage (Hannibal)
    China (Wu Zetian and Kangxi Emperor or another Qing leader)
    Vietnam (Ho Chi Minh)
    Indonesia (Soekarno)
    Korea (Sejong)
    Persia (Khosrau I)
    Byzantium (Justinian or Theodora if you think my list lack of female leaders)

    Sassanid - Byzantium War
    Second Punic War

    Like i say, my list lack of female leaders, Lack of newcomer civ (basically just Vietnam) But hey, look at our Classic Civ
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  15. IgorS

    IgorS Your ad could be here!

    Sep 28, 2008
    Charles III

    This would be so wrong for two reasons:
    1. Mobutu Sese Seko should not be included in the game in the first place.
    2. You can't have a civilization with Mvemba a Nzinga, Garcia and a leader of Zaire - these are two different Congos.
  16. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Oct 17, 2017
    Not to go overboard but I was fine with the base game maybe adding in a few extras such as Mali, Khmer, Inca, and Persia. The only one I could have saved for a later date could have been Norway released with the Vikings DLC coming out to 22.
    Mali is a personal preference.
    Khmer would have balanced out the regions and show off the religious victory mechanics a bit more.
    Persia, enough said. Alexander is important enough on his own for a DLC:)
    Inca to give South America some native love. Brazil I understand was there because they did host the Olympics a few months before the release.
  17. Lord of War N02

    Lord of War N02 Lord of Southeast Asia

    Apr 17, 2010
    Somewhere on Earth
    Thank you for helping me, I understand about Different Congos now, I put the founder of Kongo, Lukeni lua Nimi as represent of Ancient Kongo instead
  18. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

    May 7, 2007
    18 civ vanilla game; diversity among regions, leader gender, and leader types (prime ministers and warrior-queens alike), bolded are new civs and/or leaders:
    1. Arabia (Harun al-Rashid, the scholarly caliph of the House of Wisdom)
    2. Benin (Iyoba) Idia, magician, political strategist, and warrior)
    3. China (Kangxi, the Confucian half-Manchu sage emperor who conquered and wrote much, and ruled the longest of any Chinese ruler)
    4. Egypt (Hatshepsut, female pharaoh over a wealthy trading and monumental Egypt)
    5. England (Queen Elizabeth I, the famously witty and cultured Virgin Queen)
    6. Ethiopia (Emperor Menelik II, who acted selflessly for the poor, suppressed the slave trade, and defeated the Italian invaders)
    7. France (Cardinal Richelieu, the cultured spymaster, clergyman and prime minister figure who consolidated power in the French monarchy)
    8. Germany (Frederick the Great, the enlightened absolutist who was also an art lover, homosexual, and military strategist)
    9. Greece (Themistocles, the cunning Athenian admiral and politician who defeated Persia at Salamis)
    10. Inca (Pachacuti Inca Yupanqui, the Earth-Shaker who crushed the Chankas, built the famous Incan roads, and rebuilt Cusco)
    11. India (Ashoka, the once-warrior emperor who, after becoming horrified at the Kalinga War's stench of death, became a devout, peaceful Buddhist)
    12. Iroquois (Jigonhsasee, female co-founder of the Iroquois Confederacy who housed tribal warriors in a neutral zone)
    13. Japan (Hojo Tokimune, the iron-fisted regent who resisted Mongolia's invasions and executed all their delegates)
    14. Majapahit (Gajah Mada, the mighty prime minister of the Palapa Oath who carved an empire for king and queen)
    15. Mayans (Lady Six Sky, the ritualistic Lady of Dos Pilas, once a princess, and then a warrior queen who launched eight successful military invasions against other Mayan city-states)
    16. Persia (Cyrus the Great, the humanitarian conqueror who allowed his subjects to worship and live more or less as they pleased)
    17. Rome (Augustus Caesar, the first emperor who had the loyalty of the Praetorian Guard, defeated Cleopatra, and made Rome marble)
    18. United States (Theodore Roosevelt, environmentalist and warmongering peacekeeper)
    Notable exclusions include Aztecs (Ahuitzotl, doubled Aztec dominion), Mongols (Genghis Khan, world conqueror), Spain (Philip II, religious fanatic), Sumeria (priest-king Gudea of Lagash), and Russia (Catherine the Great, Enlightenment-era conqueror) (all of whom would be DLC along with Polynesians/Maori).

    I wish I could exclude the US but you know an American developer will never exclude them, so there we are. 5 female leaders among 18 listed above, but of course Japan could get Queen Himiko, China Wu Zetian and the Majapahit Dyah Gitarja if we needed more female representation among the vanilla civs. Of course, Mongols and Spain also have capable female leaders.)

    Secondary leaders could include Senusret III for Egypt, Pericles for Greece, Yuk'noom the Great for the Mayans, and Henry V or Winston Churchill for England).
  19. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

    May 14, 2016
    Terok Nor
    Someone get Firaxis to consult @Morningcalm on expansion civs and leaders, because that's what a proper list looks like. :love:
    Jkchart and Morningcalm like this.
  20. Phrozen

    Phrozen King

    May 7, 2012
    Why the hate for the US? The 20th century was the American century in pretty much every category.
    awesome likes this.

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